If we are playing for the future, why is Samuels starting? Minutes going forward

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GopherBlood777

GopherBlood777

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We need to push the future into the forefront and also give some consistency for the players to get used to. Ben has tried varying lineups, but somehow in my opinion arrived on the worst possible combination for his starters. He also plays Thompson like a yo-yo as his minutes are up and down when he has proven to be effective as of late. He refuses to adjust at halftime when it clearly isn't working either. This is what I would like to see going forward, what about everyone else?

PG: Cooper (32 minutes), Samuels (8 minutes)
SG: Carrington (25 minutes), Henley (15 minutes)
SF: Battle (32 Minutes), Ola-Joseph (8 minutes)
PF: Garcia (32 minutes), Ola-Joseph (8 minutes)
C: Payne (25 minutes), Thompson (15 minutes)
 

Cut Thompson's minutes in half and I could get down with this. I think they made the switch because Cooper struggles getting the team in sets at some points but I agree Samuels shouldn't be player more than 6-8 minutes. Also made the switch because Henley was STRUGGLING. The best lineup yesterday was the original starters with Payne instead of Thompson, I would go back to that.
 

AGREE--Samuels is not even a D-2 player let alone a a D-1 player. Bottom line is that the coaches missed badly with the addition of the 2 transfer guards. If you do not have a guard who can create a mismatch--then you don't have anything. We don't get easy open looks do to our guard play. Thompson needs to play more. Carrington needs to start. Why isn't Will R playing more? He can rebound and play defense and brings toughness.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
We need to push the future into the forefront and also give some consistency for the players to get used to. Ben has tried varying lineups, but somehow in my opinion arrived on the worst possible combination for his starters. He also plays Thompson like a yo-yo as his minutes are up and down when he has proven to be effective as of late. He refuses to adjust at halftime when it clearly isn't working either. This is what I would like to see going forward, what about everyone else?

PG: Cooper (32 minutes), Samuels (8 minutes)
SG: Carrington (25 minutes), Henley (15 minutes)
SF: Battle (32 Minutes), Ola-Joseph (8 minutes)
PF: Garcia (32 minutes), Ola-Joseph (8 minutes)
C: Payne (25 minutes), Thompson (15 minutes)
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A few call outs:

1) I get the sense based on the game last night that the coaching staff has told Cooper that he needs to score more, he looked to be in score first mode last night for the first time all season (this was a change)

2) battle can’t play SF in the b10 - last night showed as he is incredibly turnover prone when you put defenders on him who can pressure him (force him to put the ball on the floor) - but gophers are forced to play him there

*no teams are pressing us as I assume we will be playing from behind or even at all-times, rarely with the lead*

PG: Carrington 30 min, Samuels 10 min
SG: Cooper 30 min, Henley 10
SF: Battle 25, JOJ 15
PF: Garcia 22, Battle 10, Thompson / JOJ 8
C: Payne 25, Garcia 15

Again, I think you can get away with carrington at PG since Cooper is looking to score-first since no one is going to pressure the gophers…thus he can just walk it across half court
 

It's simply for rotation purposes, likely.
 


TD12 said:
AGREE--Samuels is not even a D-2 player let alone a a D-1 player. Bottom line is that the coaches missed badly with the addition of the 2 transfer guards. If you do not have a guard who can create a mismatch--then you don't have anything. We don't get easy open looks do to our guard play. Thompson needs to play more. Carrington needs to start. Why isn't Will R playing more? He can rebound and play defense and brings toughness.
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Overstated. Samuels is a low D 1 player who is a below ten minute guy at this level. Cooper isn’t a top five conference point guard but he is decent and does create match up problems with smaller guards like he did with their back up guy last night. The attacks on Cooper are overstated.

Will R is a walk on who works hard but doesn’t have the quickness or size to be effective in the B1G. He’s not a part of the future in any way.

Agree that Thompson should play a bit more but it’s clear Ben doesn’t trust him in the man defense. Only zone.

Whether Carrington starts or not is irrelevant if he’s getting in the neighborhood of 20 minutes a game.

Everyone regularly on this board knows we are short of guard bodies and talent and it has to be priority number one in the portal. Nothing we can do about it now. Stating the obvious doesn’t make us brilliant.

I’m surprised no one has suggested taking the red shirt off of Betts yet.
 

Samuels should get similar minutes to his point production. Zero

As for Battle making turnovers from the SF position. You realize he doesn’t need to dribble that much to be a good SF, right? He should be schooled on the joys of catch and shoot, slash and shoot and have his free rein to dribble revoked. He can’t do it.

Gopher offense is lame and puts too much pressure on the players to create. Run some guys round screens, slash or go back door. Rarely see any of this.

Johnson seems to be running the same offense Pitino ran. Pass along the perimeter until someone has to force the issue. Stupid.

As was pointed out PP had great position a few times yet failed to get the ball. Working the inside out game moves the defense and creates opportunities.

Starting lineup should be:
Cooper
Henley/Carrington - flip a coin
Battle
Garcia
Payne

6th man JoJ

Pass and move offense with less dribbling and more cuts to the hole. Feed the freaking post!
 

Holy Man said:
Overstated. Samuels is a low D 1 player who is a below ten minute guy at this level. Cooper isn’t a top five conference point guard but he is decent and does create match up problems with smaller guards like he did with their back up guy last night. The attacks on Cooper are overstated.

Will R is a walk on who works hard but doesn’t have the quickness or size to be effective in the B1G. He’s not a part of the future in any way.

Agree that Thompson should play a bit more but it’s clear Ben doesn’t trust him in the man defense. Only zone.

Whether Carrington starts or not is irrelevant if he’s getting in the neighborhood of 20 minutes a game.

Everyone regularly on this board knows we are short of guard bodies and talent and it has to be priority number one in the portal. Nothing we can do about it now. Stating the obvious doesn’t make us brilliant.

I’m surprised no one has suggested taking the red shirt off of Betts yet.
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For me, it only matters because I think Samuels only minutes should come when he is spelling Cooper.

There is no reason to give him run with Cooper (IMO).
 







Otis said:
Samuels should get similar minutes to his point production. Zero

As for Battle making turnovers from the SF position. You realize he doesn’t need to dribble that much to be a good SF, right? He should be schooled on the joys of catch and shoot, slash and shoot and have his free rein to dribble revoked. He can’t do it.

Gopher offense is lame and puts too much pressure on the players to create. Run some guys round screens, slash or go back door. Rarely see any of this.

Johnson seems to be running the same offense Pitino ran.
Click to expand...
This is what I am seeing, although I am no X and O guy. I see it a little differently though. It seems they try to run the pick and roll when Payne is in, but they rarely pass it to him on the roll and Cooper isn't quick enough to utilize it off the dribble like Carr was (for example). If that doesn't work, then we have the pass it around the perimeter until the ball nests into Battle or Garcias hands and then everything stops.
 



Holy Man said:
Overstated. Samuels is a low D 1 player who is a below ten minute guy at this level. Cooper isn’t a top five conference point guard but he is decent and does create match up problems with smaller guards like he did with their back up guy last night. The attacks on Cooper are overstated.

Will R is a walk on who works hard but doesn’t have the quickness or size to be effective in the B1G. He’s not a part of the future in any way.

Agree that Thompson should play a bit more but it’s clear Ben doesn’t trust him in the man defense. Only zone.

Whether Carrington starts or not is irrelevant if he’s getting in the neighborhood of 20 minutes a game.

Everyone regularly on this board knows we are short of guard bodies and talent and it has to be priority number one in the portal. Nothing we can do about it now. Stating the obvious doesn’t make us brilliant.

I’m surprised no one has suggested taking the red shirt off of Betts yet.
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Our guard play is terrible! I think we agree on that. Is it OVERSTATED? I don't think so. Looking at the lead guards in the NSIC--Well I would take most, if not all of them over Samuels, he is not a D-1 player, but we can agree to disagree on that. Ramberg played decent early on and should be getting minutes on this team in my opinion. Betts may never be in the rotation based on needs for next year, meaning, we will need to hit the portal hard for guard play.

Cooper is the best we have....but....does not mean he is a power 5 lead guard.

It is pretty hard to win at any level without guard play that can create, defend, and play with separation.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Cuz regardless of what The fans of the Ben hire say ——- Ben wants/needs wins now.
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That just depends on how you define a win. Some people define it by an actual win while true Gopher fans define by keeping the game within 10 points in his third season.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Cuz regardless of what The fans of the Ben hire say ——- Ben wants/needs wins now.
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I'll never forget desperate Vikings coach Leslie Frazier going ALL-OUT for a meaningless win in the last game of the season vs Washington. It cost us 6 spots in the draft plus got Adrian Peterson injured for the entire next season.

And desperate Brad Childress firing our most important player Randy Moss right when the schedule finally got easier. He thought he'd look like a genius. But of course it backfired...we had no receivers, lost to the rotten Cleveland Browns, and he was fired.

So I hope Ben doesn't feel pressured to win immediately. At the expense of the future.
 

By mid-season I hope our 3 freshmen are getting 25 minutes each. Closer to 30 each by the end of the season. With Henley up to about 20.
 

MNJay said:
I'll never forget desperate Vikings coach Leslie Frazier going ALL-OUT for a meaningless win in the last game of the season vs Washington. It cost us 6 spots in the draft plus got Adrian Peterson injured for the entire next season.

And desperate Brad Childress firing our most important player Randy Moss right when the schedule finally got easier. He thought he'd look like a genius. But of course it backfired...we had no receivers, lost to the rotten Cleveland Browns, and he was fired.

So I hope Ben doesn't feel pressured to win immediately. At the expense of the future.
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How would winning hurt our future?
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
How would winning hurt our future?
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It would tell people we have the talent to win and that the the no-wins until 2025 mentality is a facade. This would lead more people to question the coaching staff. If we keep losing, we can hold onto the rebuilding crutch just a little longer ;)
 
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I wouldn’t give TT 15 minutes and wouldn’t play JOJ at sf. Other than that I have no issue with this idea.
 

Minutes last night:
JOJ/24
Garcia/33
Battle/40
Cooper/35
Samuels/15
Payne/23
Henley/12
Carrington/18

Based on the minutes Samuels played and when I think he played them (start of each half)- I'd guess he was about a -9 or -10 in his minutes. Divide his minutes up between Carrington and Henley (if he is playing like he was last night with great hustle). Battle should play no more than 35 minutes. Payne 25-27 would be great. Get those 7 in the range of 20 -35 minutes each.
 

bga1 said:
Minutes last night:
JOJ/24
Garcia/33
Battle/40
Cooper/35
Samuels/15
Payne/23
Henley/12
Carrington/18

Based on the minutes Samuels played and when I think he played them (start of each half)- I'd guess he was about a -9 or -10 in his minutes. Divide his minutes up between Carrington and Henley (if he is playing like he was last night with great hustle). Battle should play no more than 35 minutes. Payne 25-27 would be great. Get those 7 in the range of 20 -35 minutes each.
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Carrington was invisible last night except for his first minute where he made a nice trey. Otherwise I’m shocked to see he played 18 minutes
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Carrington was invisible last night except for his first minute where he made a nice trey. Otherwise I’m shocked to see he played 18 minutes
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What that lets you know is that the ball doesn't move in our offense. Most possessions he never touched the ball. When a guy comes in off the bench and rips one immediately like that, the ball ought to be finding his hands a lot until he proves otherwise.
 

bga1 said:
Minutes last night:
JOJ/24
Garcia/33
Battle/40
Cooper/35
Samuels/15
Payne/23
Henley/12
Carrington/18

Based on the minutes Samuels played and when I think he played them (start of each half)- I'd guess he was about a -9 or -10 in his minutes. Divide his minutes up between Carrington and Henley (if he is playing like he was last night with great hustle). Battle should play no more than 35 minutes. Payne 25-27 would be great. Get those 7 in the range of 20 -35 minutes each.
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Battle played all 40 in his worst performance of the year? Good for him. Trust the process.
 

bga1 said:
This is what I am seeing, although I am no X and O guy. I see it a little differently though. It seems they try to run the pick and roll when Payne is in, but they rarely pass it to him on the roll and Cooper isn't quick enough to utilize it off the dribble like Carr was (for example). If that doesn't work, then we have the pass it around the perimeter until the ball nests into Battle or Garcias hands and then everything stops.
Click to expand...
I love watching Painter's offense at PU. Of course it helps to have a 7-4 center and a beast like Williams share the 5 along with Ivey and a bunch of sharpshooters. On a good night, they thrive on motion, screens all over the floor and getting good looks off the curl for their shooters. Then of course they are all schooled on how to feed the 5.


I give Garcia credit for working on his low post game. If he works on his strength during off season, he will be more effective. Battle is struggling to get off a good shot on his own let alone ever post up. BJ needs to work plays to set him up off the screen without the dribble.
 
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Bayfieldgopher said:
I love watching Painter's offense at PU. Of course it helps to have a 7-4 center and a beast like Williams share the 5 along with Ivey and a bunch of sharpshooters. On a good night, they thrive on motion, screens all over the floor and getting good looks off the curl for their shooters. Then of course they are all schooled on how to feed the 5.


I give Garcia credit for working on his low post game. If he works on his strength during off season, he will be more effective. Battle is struggling to get off a good shot on his own let alone ever post up. BJ needs to work plays to set him up off the screen without the dribble.
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Both Battle and Garcia appear a little weak. I don’t know what their baseline is but it strikes me that at this stage they should be a little stronger than they are. Should not be getting held balls whacked out of their hands.
 

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