If we are playing for the future, why is Samuels starting? Minutes going forward

Donate To GopherHole
Bayfieldgopher said:
I love watching Painter's offense at PU. Of course it helps to have a 7-4 center and a beast like Williams share the 5 along with Ivey and a bunch of sharpshooters. On a good night, they thrive on motion, screens all over the floor and getting good looks off the curl for their shooters. Then of course they are all schooled on how to feed the 5.


I give Garcia credit for working on his low post game. If he works on his strength during off season, he will be more effective. Battle is struggling to get off a good shot on his own let alone ever post up. BJ needs to work plays to set him up off the screen without the dribble.
Click to expand...
Cool video. Regarding the bolded above- do you think he knows how to do that?
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
A few call outs:

1) I get the sense based on the game last night that the coaching staff has told Cooper that he needs to score more, he looked to be in score first mode last night for the first time all season (this was a change)

2) battle can’t play SF in the b10 - last night showed as he is incredibly turnover prone when you put defenders on him who can pressure him (force him to put the ball on the floor) - but gophers are forced to play him there

*no teams are pressing us as I assume we will be playing from behind or even at all-times, rarely with the lead*

PG: Carrington 30 min, Samuels 10 min
SG: Cooper 30 min, Henley 10
SF: Battle 25, JOJ 15
PF: Garcia 22, Battle 10, Thompson / JOJ 8
C: Payne 25, Garcia 15

Again, I think you can get away with carrington at PG since Cooper is looking to score-first since no one is going to pressure the gophers…thus he can just walk it across half court
Click to expand...
I would swap Cooper and Carington (minor distinction in this offense) but other than that, this is correct. i hate Battle playing the 3, but the only way around it is Garcia playing center which isn't a good option.
 


GopherBlood666 said:
We need to push the future into the forefront and also give some consistency for the players to get used to. Ben has tried varying lineups, but somehow in my opinion arrived on the worst possible combination for his starters. He also plays Thompson like a yo-yo as his minutes are up and down when he has proven to be effective as of late. He refuses to adjust at halftime when it clearly isn't working either. This is what I would like to see going forward, what about everyone else?

PG: Cooper (32 minutes), Samuels (8 minutes)
SG: Carrington (25 minutes), Henley (15 minutes)
SF: Battle (32 Minutes), Ola-Joseph (8 minutes)
PF: Garcia (32 minutes), Ola-Joseph (8 minutes)
C: Payne (25 minutes), Thompson (15 minutes)
Click to expand...
Number of turnovers by Samuels on Tuesday?

Zero

If all goes well, the young kids will keep improving in practice, will value the ball and will move Samuels out of the starting lineup. Until then, Samuels holds that spot.
 



I don't have a problem with Samuels as long he's in a back up role. 8-12 ish minutes I think the Freshman minutes are about right for now, maybe Henley is starting to earn back his original amount. Carrington a 22-25 guy, if he can get his shot to a consistent level, his percentages have been better lately he can get to 30 minutes. Payne and JOJ bring great energy, there minutes will go up as they learn to take better care of the ball and learn to not foul. Henley, there's a lot to like, he just needs to get under control, last game was a sign that he's heading in the right direction. It's a work in progress, but I think Ben handling the freshman and their development well, you have to earn it at this level
 

MennoSota said:
Number of turnovers by Samuels on Tuesday?

Zero

If all goes well, the young kids will keep improving in practice, will value the ball and will move Samuels out of the starting lineup. Until then, Samuels holds that spot.
Click to expand...
They lost about 10 points while Samuels was in- start of the game and start of the second half. He's not Big Ten level. He does know how to play the game and would be a fine lower division player. I'd rather see Carrington playing with Cooper than Samuels. We are not going to win much anyway. Get the kid in there.
 

MennoSota said:
Number of turnovers by Samuels on Tuesday?

Zero

If all goes well, the young kids will keep improving in practice, will value the ball and will move Samuels out of the starting lineup. Until then, Samuels holds that spot.
Click to expand...
This.
Sadly, he is the best guard on the team when it comes to moving the ball around without turning it over.
 

I personally don’t mind Samuels starting. He doesn’t seem to make “that many” silly mistakes. Carrington looks to be a few years out before being a serious contributor. He plays scared and defers a lot. He’s also sloppy on the defensive end. I’m glad to see him getting 20+ mins a game. This exposure will help him out a lot for the future. Henley isn’t scared to throw up a shot or take it to the rack. My issue with him is he doesn’t seem to realize (when given bigger minutes) how to stop shooting when he isn’t hitting, he should try and make up for that in a different way that can positively help the team (defense, spacing, passing, etc). He also needs to be more aggressive when taking it to the rack. Throw that 6’7 body around. But again, it’s going to take time. He’s a Frosh similar to Carrington.

Side note: Our starters need to get it together. These turnovers are horrendous. Battle and Garcia need to hit shots. My suggestion would be slow the offense down and prep a lot of set plays to get guys in rhythm. Loosen things up and play a little more free after shots start going in. I’m assuming Johnson is doing a lot of this. I haven’t watch as much Gopher basketball as I normally do. So I’m basing this off a fairly small sample size and what I’m hearing on the board.

Hope everyone has a great start to the year. Cheers 🥂
 



MennoSota said:
Number of turnovers by Samuels on Tuesday?

Zero

If all goes well, the young kids will keep improving in practice, will value the ball and will move Samuels out of the starting lineup. Until then, Samuels holds that spot.
Click to expand...
Samuels was -13 in 15 minutes of play despite not turning the ball over once. Even though he played the "smartest", his presence had the largest negative impact on the scoreboard. He should not be starting or playing more than 6 - 8 minutes per game.
 

tikited said:
This.
Sadly, he is the best guard on the team when it comes to moving the ball around without turning it over.
Click to expand...
Yeah but they weren't scoring with him on the floor. JOJ and Samuels had the worst +/- by a wide margin from the last game. Neither should be starting, both better suited for reserve roles.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Yeah but they weren't scoring with him on the floor. JOJ and Samuels had the worst +/- by a wide margin from the last game. Neither should be starting, both better suited for reserve roles.
Click to expand...
I don't see that changing any time soon. Cooper hasn't been bringing the ball up the court since he has been having so many issues lately. Samuels will continue to get minutes because of this.
 

GopherBB12 said:
I personally don’t mind Samuels starting. He doesn’t seem to make “that many” silly mistakes. Carrington looks to be a few years out before being a serious contributor. He plays scared and defers a lot. He’s also sloppy on the defensive end. I’m glad to see him getting 20+ mins a game. This exposure will help him out a lot for the future. Henley isn’t scared to throw up a shot or take it to the rack. My issue with him is he doesn’t seem to realize (when given bigger minutes) how to stop shooting when he isn’t hitting, he should try and make up for that in a different way that can positively help the team (defense, spacing, passing, etc). He also needs to be more aggressive when taking it to the rack. Throw that 6’7 body around. But again, it’s going to take time. He’s a Frosh similar to Carrington.

Side note: Our starters need to get it together. These turnovers are horrendous. Battle and Garcia need to hit shots. My suggestion would be slow the offense down and prep a lot of set plays to get guys in rhythm. Loosen things up and play a little more free after shots start going in. I’m assuming Johnson is doing a lot of this. I haven’t watch as much Gopher basketball as I normally do. So I’m basing this off a fairly small sample size and what I’m hearing on the board.

Hope everyone has a great start to the year. Cheers 🥂
Click to expand...
Great post!
 



This current offense roster is not well conceived nor balanced. We have no true quality PG. Samuel's strength is to help facilitate the offense but adds very little else. Probably understands the D scheme better than others.

We have no established 3 or 5. Garcia's best fit is the 4 and probably Battle as well. Someone has to play the 3 and that seems to be Battle. For some reason Ben starts JOJ rather than PP. Henley needs tons of work.

Cooper appears to be a better fit at 2. Carrington isn't ready.

TT doesn't add much either.

Ben is using band aids and props and it isn't working.
 

tikited said:
I don't see that changing any time soon. Cooper hasn't been bringing the ball up the court since he has been having so many issues lately. Samuels will continue to get minutes because of this.
Click to expand...
I can't say you are wrong
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Samuels was -13 in 15 minutes of play despite not turning the ball over once. Even though he played the "smartest", his presence had the largest negative impact on the scoreboard. He should not be starting or playing more than 6 - 8 minutes per game.
Click to expand...
Samuels is the turtle strategy. It's just hoping not to screw up. That's not going to win games. No matter how we line up- we are going to lose most games. Let's lose them with the young guys learning on the court.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Samuels was -13 in 15 minutes of play despite not turning the ball over once. Even though he played the "smartest", his presence had the largest negative impact on the scoreboard. He should not be starting or playing more than 6 - 8 minutes per game.
Click to expand...
Where do you find +/- stats for NCAA games?
 


GopherBlood666 said:
Samuels was -13 in 15 minutes of play despite not turning the ball over once. Even though he played the "smartest", his presence had the largest negative impact on the scoreboard. He should not be starting or playing more than 6 - 8 minutes per game.
Click to expand...
How does that work? What causes a minus 13 when you have no turnovers? I'll hang up and listen.
 

Allshade said:
How does that work? What causes a minus 13 when you have no turnovers? I'll hang up and listen.
Click to expand...
He contributes no offense. 0 shot attempts last game. That is fine if everyone around you is scoring, but that was not the case while he was on the floor. Especially when the others are turning it over in droves (battle/cooper with 6 turnovers each)
 

Allshade said:
How does that work? What causes a minus 13 when you have no turnovers? I'll hang up and listen.
Click to expand...
If you are on the court when the team falls behind 10-5 you are -5. If you then leave the court and return and the game is tied when you come back in and then the team falls behind by 8 you are now minus 13
 


bga1 said:
If you are on the court when the team falls behind 10-5 you are -5. If you then leave the court and return and the game is tied when you come back in and then the team falls behind by 8 you are now minus 13
Click to expand...
Thx!
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
This current offense roster is not well conceived nor balanced. We have no true quality PG. Samuel's strength is to help facilitate the offense but adds very little else. Probably understands the D scheme better than others.

We have no established 3 or 5. Garcia's best fit is the 4 and probably Battle as well. Someone has to play the 3 and that seems to be Battle. For some reason Ben starts JOJ rather than PP. Henley needs tons of work.

Cooper appears to be a better fit at 2. Carrington isn't ready.

TT doesn't add much either.

Ben is using band aids and props and it isn't working.
Click to expand...
Well duhhh.

Coach Johnson has a grand total of ONE recruiting class on the team. As freshmen.

I've been overly nice. But the next time I see someone criticize Coach Johnson for roster construction...I'm going to call them something...
 

I just hope that Ben has something different in mind for next year......without a true, B10 level PG on the team, we are going to continue to struggle. My concern is we are putting all of our eggs in the Osuma (sp?) basket, and he won't help next year.
 

MNJay said:
Well duhhh.

Coach Johnson has a grand total of ONE recruiting class on the team. As freshmen.

I've been overly nice. But the next time I see someone criticize Coach Johnson for roster construction...I'm going to call them something...
Click to expand...
It's poor roster construction- no matter how bad that makes you feel. There is a portal. He went out and got Cooper who is more of a Big Ten 2 guard and even better yet a good 6th man type. There are just not enough guards with speed on the team to compete in the Big Ten. When you see St Olaf and other small teams having guards that beat us off the dribble consistently you know that you had some misses at the guard position.
 

bga1 said:
If you are on the court when the team falls behind 10-5 you are -5. If you then leave the court and return and the game is tied when you come back in and then the team falls behind by 8 you are now minus 13
Click to expand...
I'm not really a big fan of +/-. It can sometimes be very deceiving. I was at a college game last night where the player with the highest +/- on the winning team (+11) was 1-6 shooting, 0-4 on 3's, had a couple of rebounds, gave up a couple of offensive rebounds. Defensively, got a few stops but also had some defensive lapses. In other words, probably a slightly below average game. What really went on was he happened to be on the floor when two of the other guards found a groove and were able to win one-on-one battles on the perimeter and get to the rim and score while he spotted up in the corner.

It seems like every time I look at a box score, I see one of those +/- situations crop up, so I look at the stat with a grain of salt.
 

Chico Gopher said:
I'm not really a big fan of +/-. It can sometimes be very deceiving. I was at a college game last night where the player with the highest +/- on the winning team (+11) was 1-6 shooting, 0-4 on 3's, had a couple of rebounds, gave up a couple of offensive rebounds. Defensively, got a few stops but also had some defensive lapses. In other words, probably a slightly below average game. What really went on was he happened to be on the floor when two of the other guards found a groove and were able to win one-on-one battles on the perimeter and get to the rim and score while he spotted up in the corner.

It seems like every time I look at a box score, I see one of those +/- situations crop up, so I look at the stat with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
It's probably a much better long run statistic than short run stat.
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
I just hope that Ben has something different in mind for next year......without a true, B10 level PG on the team, we are going to continue to struggle. My concern is we are putting all of our eggs in the Osuma (sp?) basket, and he won't help next year.
Click to expand...
Without a capable point guard, next season, we are practically condemning ourselves to a third historically bad season in a row. The staff must put on a full court press for an experienced point guard in the portal. Hard to believe anyone on this board would disagree with that. And that is saying something.
 

bga1 said:
It's probably a much better long run statistic than short run stat.
Click to expand...
I'm not even so sure about that. There are too many variables that might go into it, that the relevancy can legitimately be questioned short and long term. It seems like imposing team stats on individuals.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom