If his name wasn't "Tubby Smith" would your opinion change?

Donate To GopherHole
E

EG#9

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
7,242
Reaction score
2,349
Points
113
This is the likely resume after year 5:

-0 NCAA tournament wins
- 2 Tournament appearances as a bubble team
- Best conference finish: 6th place
- 2 straight losing conference seasons

My guess is that if the Gophers had hired someone like Dana Altman 5 years ago that there would be much more anger directed at the head coach than there appears to be currently.

Looking ahead to year 6, I can't see the Gophers being picked to finish any higher than 9th in the Big Ten barring an extremely unlikely sixth season from Trevor Mbakwe.

To be clear, I think Tubby should coach this team next year, but the time for excuses has to be over. The bare minimum has to be a top half of the conference finish or a change should be made. I never thought we'd be in this position five years ago, but it appears that such a minimum standard or respectiblity will be very difficult to achieve.
 

Here's the thing though, if we fire him now, we have to go about finding someone willing to take the job despite us being the only school in the B1G without a practice facility, and yes that is a big deal. We would likely have to overpay any candidate.
 

Tubby may be a good coach but into year 5 with never finishing above 500 in Big Ten is not what we paid for. You can only live on that rep for so long. Pretty obvious that prez k is not anxious to extend him at this time.

In 10 years Bo Ryan's worst Big Ten record is 9-7. In 4+ years Tubby's best record is 9-9.

Could next year be a turnaround? Possibly, but it doesn't seem likely.

Hard to say what the future holds.
 

Speculate all you want - Tubby is not going anywhere.
 

zambam said:
Here's the thing though, if we fire him now, we have to go about finding someone willing to take the job despite us being the only school in the B1G without a practice facility, and yes that is a big deal. We would likely have to overpay any candidate.
Click to expand...

It seems like everyone here is "Flip or bust" when it comes to the next coach whenever Tubby's tenure is over. But what if Flip says no? Then who do we pursue?

My choice would be Tim Miles. He has worked his way up through the ranks much in the same way Jerry Kill has

Mayville State (NAIA) - 35-22
Southwest MN State (NCAA Div. II) - 78-39
North Dakota State (NCAA Div. I Transition) - 99-71
Colorado State (MWC) - 51-76

Don't let that record at CSU fool you. He has taken that team from 7 wins his first season to 19 wins last year and an NIT berth. They are 14-7 this year, including a big upset last week against then No. 12 San Diego State.
 


Parski1 said:
Speculate all you want - Tubby is not going anywhere.
Click to expand...

Very true.


If his name wasn't "Tubby Smith" would your opinion change?
Click to expand...

If Royce, Devoe, and Cobbs didn't transfer, and Mbakwe's trial didn't get delayed or tear his ACL would your opinion change?

You do realize that if we make the tournament this year, Tubby might be the unanimous B1G Coach of the Year?
 

RoyalGopher said:
Very true.




If Royce, Devoe, and Cobbs didn't transfer, and Mbakwe's trial didn't get delayed or tear his ACL would your opinion change?

You do realize that if we make the tournament this year, Tubby might be the unanimous B1G Coach of the Year?
Click to expand...

I would venture to say that Tubby wouldn't be unanimous B1G COY with anything short of a top ten ranking in any year.
 

RoyalGopher said:
Very true.




If Royce, Devoe, and Cobbs didn't transfer, and Mbakwe's trial didn't get delayed or tear his ACL would your opinion change?

You do realize that if we make the tournament this year, Tubby might be the unanimous B1G Coach of the Year?
Click to expand...

The idea that Tubby would be unanimous B1G Coach of the Year by simply making the NCAA tournament is an absolute joke. If the Gophers just managed to beat Iowa twice, they would currently be 6-4 in the conference and have a great shot at the NCAA's...and nobody would be talking about Tubby as the conference coach of the year.

As for your "if's" Tubby had a role in the Devoe transfer and arguably the Cobbs transfer as well. Is an injury to one player really enough to justify a bottom half of the conference finish in year 5? We could play an "if" game with Dan Monson too...what if Bauer or Bickerstaff don't get hurt? What if Rickert/Humphries stay another year? What if the Gophers can get the ball across half court against Illinois? Any of those "ifs"
might have dramatically changed his tenure, but nobody was saying "what if" for Dan Monson.

How many years can a "what if" be an excuse for the bottom line? I think it's more than fair to say that Tubby absolutely needs to finish in the top half of the Big Ten Conference next year to retain his job. At some point the "what if's" have to take a backseat to the "what is".
 

Not that I'm impressed with the mediocrity, but I would be much more likely to change my opinion if Minnesota was regarded as a traditional powerhouse.

I know that's obvious, and I know that a lot of people expect Tubby to bring us to that level, but maybe it's not as easy as we all think. Then again, of course, maybe Tubby isn't capable of getting us there. Who knows. What I do know is that I think the future is much brighter now than it would be if we had to start over from scratch.
 



EG#9 said:
This is the likely resume after year 5:

-0 NCAA tournament wins
- 2 Tournament appearances as a bubble team
- Best conference finish: 6th place
- 2 straight losing conference seasons

My guess is that if the Gophers had hired someone like Dana Altman 5 years ago that there would be much more anger directed at the head coach than there appears to be currently.

Looking ahead to year 6, I can't see the Gophers being picked to finish any higher than 9th in the Big Ten barring an extremely unlikely sixth season from Trevor Mbakwe.

To be clear, I think Tubby should coach this team next year, but the time for excuses has to be over. The bare minimum has to be a top half of the conference finish or a change should be made. I never thought we'd be in this position five years ago, but it appears that such a minimum standard or respectiblity will be very difficult to achieve.
Click to expand...

I love how you manage to pop-up all over the board only after losses. You may post once or twice after a win, but boy, you go in overdrive after a loss. It's really getting old!
 

KyGopherfan said:
I love how you manage to pop-up all over the board only after losses. You may post once or twice after a win, but boy, you go in overdrive after a loss. It's really getting old!
Click to expand...

That's interesting. I hadn't really noticed that, but I tend to pay less attention to the poster, but rather much more to the message they're trying to deliver, and on that note, and having just watched the latest game on DVR, I'll feel free to give my opinion on this season series against Iowee, and that is that it sucked, and badly, terribly.

This was a team that honestly we should have been able to wipe the floor with, if not run straight off the floor. We over-match them athletically to a degree that's nearly comical, we've got length all over them, we've got size, we've got shot-blocking ability most supreme, they've got a bunch of slow white boys and 'pluggers and grinders' in hockey terms, and yet they win, and not once, but twice.

I don't even know what to say after viewing this latest game, but the feeling of disappointment is very real. It makes me sad we aren't able to run that bunch right off the floor just as Indiana did, and so far as Tubby Smith and his millions go, well at this point, it's like show me the f*ckng money, man. Show your worth, and show the value in this mass investment. Just show it please by doing something, ANYTHING meaningful at all. Please, ya know. Just give a fricken sign to a fan-base so starved.
 

EG#9 said:
This is the likely resume after year 5:

-0 NCAA tournament wins
- 2 Tournament appearances as a bubble team
- Best conference finish: 6th place
- 2 straight losing conference seasons

My guess is that if the Gophers had hired someone like Dana Altman 5 years ago that there would be much more anger directed at the head coach than there appears to be currently.

Looking ahead to year 6, I can't see the Gophers being picked to finish any higher than 9th in the Big Ten barring an extremely unlikely sixth season from Trevor Mbakwe.

To be clear, I think Tubby should coach this team next year, but the time for excuses has to be over. The bare minimum has to be a top half of the conference finish or a change should be made. I never thought we'd be in this position five years ago, but it appears that such a minimum standard or respectiblity will be very difficult to achieve.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows the answer to your question.

Only a few are willing to be honest and admit it.
 

Honestly, I'm not sure being "Tubby Smith" has worked in his favor. When he took this job, people dreamed of all this potential that was to be had, how he'd lead us to the promised land, how he'd win all these games.

If we hired "Joe Schmoe" who was a solid mid-major coach for $1 million and then he proceeded to have the exact same first three years and first half of fourth season as Tubby, we would have been thrilled. A bad last month of basketball last year basically completely changed all outlook of Tubby's tenure here (and rightfully so, don't get me wrong).

Tubby has done things with this program we haven't seen in quite a while, garnering top 10 wins, winning on the road period, winning the Puerto Rico tourney, getting to the BTT final, winning @ Wisconsin, Illinois, etc. He has some excellent moments. But the quality isn't overcoming the quantity, as I've pointed out before.

I think being Tubby Smith actually plays against him. I've heard more than once people saying "we're paying $2 million for this????" If this was a "normal" coach who wasn't making as much, we would not have had as high of expectations. We would have been content (relatively speaking of course) getting two tourney bids in the last five years considering we only had one in the last 10 years, and legally only one in the last like 15+ years or whatever it was.

Tubby Smith changed expectations here, for the better IMO. He didn't live up to them, but as your OP states, if his name wasn't Tubby Smith, would my opinion change? Yes it would. I would likely be happier with where the program is than I am now, even though either way I'm not all that pleased. It feels like a guy with Tubby Smith's pedigree should be doing better, but circumstances blew a lot of the momentum he had up.

The only thing I hate is when people try to project the future when all the evidence the last three years has pretty much spit in the face of that. When we were projecting the future in 2009, a lot of people declared us future B1G champs. We all see how that worked out. It can go the other way too. Projecting this team as no better than 9th, who knows, we could be a top 6 team next year. Michigan looked like absolute crap last year early on, but then surged and now suddenly they're top 20 worthy. Things can change quick in this game.
 



That's kinda my thinking as well. Because of who he is, expectations are higher. If we had hired a solid mid-major guy that the average fan had never heard of before and had the same results as we are right now, I don't think some would be as critical of him.
 

EG#9 said:
This is the likely resume after year 5:

-0 NCAA tournament wins
- 2 Tournament appearances as a bubble team
- Best conference finish: 6th place
- 2 straight losing conference seasons

My guess is that if the Gophers had hired someone like Dana Altman 5 years ago that there would be much more anger directed at the head coach than there appears to be currently.

Looking ahead to year 6, I can't see the Gophers being picked to finish any higher than 9th in the Big Ten barring an extremely unlikely sixth season from Trevor Mbakwe.

To be clear, I think Tubby should coach this team next year, but the time for excuses has to be over. The bare minimum has to be a top half of the conference finish or a change should be made. I never thought we'd be in this position five years ago, but it appears that such a minimum standard or respectiblity will be very difficult to achieve.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your characterization of his likely resume. I think Tubby likely has 3 tournament appearances when this season is over. And given our ability to play competitively against solid teams in road environments (Indiana, Michigan, Illinois) I'm not willing to write-off the possibility that he grabs an NCAA tournament win (though I recognize that would be a long shot, and was appropriately omitted from your "likely" resume).
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I disagree with your characterization of his likely resume. I think Tubby likely has 3 tournament appearances when this season is over. And given our ability to play competitively against solid teams in road environments (Indiana, Michigan, Illinois) I'm not willing to write-off the possibility that he grabs an NCAA tournament win (though I recognize that would be a long shot, and was appropriately omitted from your "likely" resume).
Click to expand...
I don't think you can call a tournament bid this year "likely." I would say it's possible, but not likely.
 

We have a very good nucleus of young talent, and the team will be very good in a year or two if Tubby keeps them together. If we see another string of departures though, time to look at a new coach. My big worry about getting a new coach now is that there will be departures if he leaves. If players keep leaving anyway, well...
 

zambam said:
I don't think you can call a tournament bid this year "likely." I would say it's possible, but not likely.
Click to expand...

I was just reading another thread, and it said that 57-61 bracketologists have us in the tournament as of now, and even though only 15 have been updated since Iowa, a majority of those still have us in.
 

I think if we would have hired a mid major coach working his way up the guy would be gone after this season. Dan Monson was the up and coming coach of his time and he couldnt hack it and was gone pretty quickly. I truelly think Tubby Smith is a good coach but not in this area not in the Big Ten. His system is based on having great athletes that can press and defend and shut teams down and are able to score on the fast break. The problem is we live in an area where we have big strong kids who either play down low or shoot and end up at Wisconsin. Or we have perimeter players who better fits in a half court game that maybe dont have that terrific defensive ability to fit Tubby's system.

On offense I am not sure anyone is capable to make that work unless we have some of the very best offensive players in the country which we do not. Tubby's offensive system if we can even call it that doesnt help the players.
 

Umm, Monson was not gone pretty quickly. 7 full seasons plus the mysterious 7 games in his final season was not quick.
 

From the Barn said:
Umm, Monson was not gone pretty quickly. 7 full seasons plus the mysterious 7 games in his final season was not quick.
Click to expand...

Would you say tubby came into a better or worse situation, overall, than Monson?
 


From the Barn said:
Roughly equal
Click to expand...

Roughly equal, to you, means one coach took over at the height of the worst academic scandal in college sports, and one didnt.

Roughly equal, to you, means one coach had numerous recruiting restrictions and one didnt.

Roughly equal, to you, means one coach had to deal with the stigma of the scandal immediately, and one didnt.


Rough equity?

Wow.
 

One coach still had a rabid fan base and one didn't

One coach took over a horrible team and one didn't

One coach had to deal with rabid apathy and one didn't
 

it doesn't matter what his name is

no one expected national championships with the hire.
After 5 seasons, at least one season with a winning conference record should be a minimum expectation. That doesn't mean powerhouse, champion, etc.

We are a bad Big Ten team. We're firmly planted in the bottom four and not even mediocre in our own conference, that's sad. And that is not what the coach is being paid to do.
 

BarnBurner said:
Roughly equal, to you, means one coach took over at the height of the worst academic scandal in college sports, and one didnt.

Roughly equal, to you, means one coach had numerous recruiting restrictions and one didnt.

Roughly equal, to you, means one coach had to deal with the stigma of the scandal immediately, and one didnt.


Rough equity?

Wow.
Click to expand...

I would rank Monson's slightly worse personally, but the "stink" around the program's fan base was nowhere near as toxic as what Tubby encountered. Monson had more hurdles as far as scholarships and recruiting hindrances, but the fan base was still glowing off a Final Four appearance that no longer happened anymore just a short three years prior. A lot of coaches would take having some recruiting hindrances to take over a program that had just gone to the Final Four three years prior, and won an NIT title (I know, not that impressive, but still) two years prior. Tubby took over a program that had one tourney appearance in the decade to that point, and was probably at it's worst point as far as fan apathy/disgust. He completely revived the fan base his first year, but then at the same time, his revival made the last two seasons even more disappointing cause we know what could have been.

And though Tubby didn't have the recruiting restrictions, the transfers pretty much acted as the same, even if they were self inflicted.
 

Tubby walked into a situation where there were some young players that had potential and developed. When Monson came in the program was in decline, people left, and scholerships were reduced. Tubby had a much better situation and really took advantage of it. The attrition is what caused the turmoil.

I think you extend his contract, I sure wouldn't give him 2 million though, something like 1.5 with incentives, top 5 in big ten 150k more, make the ncaa 150k, win the big ten 300k.
 

This is such a tiring complaint. If we lose out you may have an argument come the off season. No one is getting the axe mid season so why moan about this every loss?

Tubby is the best coach we are getting for this team. A lot of kids aren't going to want to play for some coach they never heard of, from some mid major they've never heard of, in one of the coldest places they've ever heard of, without sweet digs to practice in, and without any kind of winning tradition or rabid student fanbase. But some kids are going to perk up for the same reason we all did, the name Tubby Smith. That's our best shot moving forward.

My personal opinion is that Tubby built a great team from the get go but ran into a nasty run of bad juju. Too bad for us all that Royce jacked the jeans, the University sat on Mbwake for a year, and the brilliant recruit of an ok shooting guard (Devoe) to get to one of the top point guards in his class (his brother Cory) didn't pan.
 

The fan base is off because the team is not very good and plays a dreadful style of offense. Our expectations were raised and have not been met. Meanwhile our hated rivals to the east continue their run of success which really pisses us off.

I'm convinced Monson's marriage and several young kids were a major factor in his lack of success. He was distracted by bigger things when we needed him to be fanatical about our hoops team.
He is doing pretty well at LBS.
 

we only lose Ralph next year, have a couple solid recruits coming in, Buggs will probably be an upgrade over Oto, Ellenson's arrival should put Maverick on the bench next to Kendall Shell. We get Big Mo back, it should be a good team next year and in two years maybe a great team, and if Mbakwe gets a 6th yea (big if) they could go 13-5 in the B1G and make the sweet 16
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom