If both are healthy, who do you wan to start: Gray or Shortell?

If both are healthy, who do you wan to start: Gray or Shortell?

  • Gray

    Votes: 90 61.6%

  • Shortell

    Votes: 56 38.4%
  • Total voters
    146
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If Shortell starts do you risk Gray getting hurt again by putting him at another spot? Do we really wanna roll with a true freshman back up?
 

Rosemountian said:
Shortell played great.
But he was playing against a gray gameplanned defense.
Looked great off the bench last year too, then we managed to not get a 1st half 1st down against Michigan.

Let's keep our pants on.
First 9 throws 7/9 with 3tds. Finished 3/8 with a pick after western Michigan made some adjustments.
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+1000. Shortell had an advantage when he came into the game in being a pass first guy against a defense that had geared up to deal with a run first QB. They adjusted and he looked human. Clearly he is a better passer then Gray. The one advantage Gray gives you is that defenses have to game plan specifically to contain his running ability. Against Shortell they can go with a much more traditional game plan in terms of coverage schemes. Not really sure who should start at this point but it will be interesting to see how it all plays out depending on Gray's health.
 

Rosemountian said:
Shortell played great.
But he was playing against a gray gameplanned defense.
Looked great off the bench last year too, then we managed to not get a 1st half 1st down against Michigan.

Let's keep our pants on.
First 9 throws 7/9 with 3tds. Finished 3/8 with a pick after western Michigan made some adjustments.
Click to expand...
j

Awesome analysis. I was wondering when we would hear from you.

Make all the excuses/explanations you want about the defenses that Shortell has played against. At the end of the day, he stays in the pocket to throw the ball, delivers the ball to the RIGHT receiver, within the rhythm and timing of the offense, and for the most part puts the ball RIGHT on the money.

He's also managed to play almost 4 quarters without putting the ball on the carpet, while Gray has done so at least 5 times in his last 5 quarters of play.

Shortell doesn't run as well as Gray. That's about all you can say about his game, and the fact is, Shortell doesn't HAVE to run that well. I'm pretty sure that's why they have running backs on the roster. After Gray left, Kirkwood had 16 carries for 80 yards in 2.5 quarters of play.

You say the defense wasn't prepared to play against Shortell. I have news for you. The Gophers spent the entire week offensively getting ready for a game plan with Gray at QB. You don't think THEY haven't had to make adjustments as well? Shortell was probably about as ready to play against WMU as WMU was prepared to play against Shortell. He threw ONE warm-up pass on the sidelines before coming into the game, and proceeded to lead them on a 78-yard TD drive.

Gray may start when he's healthy enough, but it has a LOT more to do with things like being a Senior, a team leader, etc. than it will actually have to do with him being the best option. I guess we'll see.
 

A healthy Gray has to be on the field. Perhaps an H-back position, or basic TE? I don't believe he's the QB over Max. He needs the ball, but we become one-dimensional with him under center. The coaches have got some time to work this out, it appears.
 


Rosemountian said:
Shortell played great.
But he was playing against a gray gameplanned defense.
Looked great off the bench last year too, then we managed to not get a 1st half 1st down against Michigan.

Let's keep our pants on.
First 9 throws 7/9 with 3tds. Finished 3/8 with a pick after western Michigan made some adjustments.
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Look at your numbers. If Shortell had attempted 28 passes in the second half and completed 14 of them, then you might have a point.

Nothing to do with Western Michigan's adjustments. Has to do with the Gopher's adjustments. WMU can score in under a minute so the gopher strategy was run the ball with a two score lead in the second half. It's the Gophers that switched things up, and your numbers show that. With four minutes left in the half and gophers down three, they've got to throw the ball. up two scores against a no huddle team, Limegrover chose to play conservatively and run the ball. WMU did not stop the pass, the Gophers stopped passing.

If the Gophers had continues to pass with the same urgency that they had in the first, who's to say that Shortell wouldn't have doubled his passing yards and thrown three more tds?
 

i'm batman said:
Look at your numbers. If Shortell had attempted 28 passes in the second half and completed 14 of them, then you might have a point.

Nothing to do with Western Michigan's adjustments. Has to do with the Gopher's adjustments. WMU can score in under a minute so the gopher strategy was run the ball with a two score lead in the second half. It's the Gophers that switched things up, and your numbers show that. With four minutes left in the half and gophers down three, they've got to throw the ball. up two scores against a no huddle team, Limegrover chose to play conservatively and run the ball. WMU did not stop the pass, the Gophers stopped passing.

If the Gophers had continues to pass with the same urgency that they had in the first, who's to say that Shortell wouldn't have doubled his passing yards and thrown three more tds?
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Bingo.

When the Gophers got ahead by 11 points, trying to kill the clock, the offense predictably became run, run, then pass on third down. Not exactly like WMU had to make these major defensive "adjustments" to stop that offense and passing attack.

But no, the backup QB that barely practiced all week and stepped in off the bench "had the advantage" against the starting defense for WMU. Okey dokey....
 

If it is a high ankle sprain for Gray, he won't be playing next week. Let's see how Max does with a team that is prepared for him
 

I will take Gray when healthy.....Did anybody notice that Max was not as accurate in the 2nd half...had a really bad pick. He will be a good QB for us, but stop acting like he's going to be the 2nd coming!
 



zambam said:
If it is a high ankle sprain for Gray, he won't be playing next week. Let's see how Max does with a team that is prepared for him
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True! I'm also anxious to see how Shortell looks when he gets a full week of practice with the starting offense and when the coaching staff actually assembles a game plan centered around his strengths. Probably tough for Limegrover to call plays today when he was expecting Gray to be the QB.

Also, I can't wait to see how Shortell handles all those pesky nerves and jitters that Gray had to deal with in Las Vegas. Apparently he's been lucky to avoid those so far.
 

Except when he couldn't avoid those pesky nerves against Michigan last year.
 

I want the coaching staff to show that they have confidence in Gray by letting him throw the ball. It just doesn't seem as though they have faith in him. The ground and pound offense will not work come big ten play. And if you really want to start seeing Gray question his own abilities, have him continue to run a vanilla offense until we require a two minute drive at the end of the game to win.
 




Gopherprof said:
If Gray actually does have a high ankle sprain, it's a moot point because he won't be back for at least a month.
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TCR in this thread.

If Gray is out for a month that takes us up to Wisconsin before he can play again. Think about that, Shortell is gonna have to show what he can do when teams gameplan for him regardless, but a decent amount of our season rests on his shoulders now. We need to get off to a decent start for a shot at bowl eligibility and he might be the guy vs. NW, Iowa, and Syracuse.
 


Upon some more reflection, I think we are probably okay with either guy starting. I would like to see Gray pass more effectively now that we have a running threat aside from him, but he still makes things happen.
 


stocker08 said:
I want the coaching staff to show that they have confidence in Gray by letting him throw the ball. It just doesn't seem as though they have faith in him. The ground and pound offense will not work come big ten play. And if you really want to start seeing Gray question his own abilities, have him continue to run a vanilla offense until we require a two minute drive at the end of the game to win.
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Ummmmm, you do realize that they actually DO call a lot more passing plays than it appears, it's just that Gray often decides he's much better off just bailing from the pocket and doing things on his own than trying to find an open receiver. After all, why throw for a 17-yard completion when you can run for 6 yards?

I don't know why this is so tough to see for some people. Good grief, the first 3rd down of the game against UNH there was a PERFECT pocket to throw from and he bailed, ran himself right into a sack. Bailed on passing plays at least 4-5 passing plays against UNH.
 

Parski1 said:
I will take Gray when healthy.....Did anybody notice that Max was not as accurate in the 2nd half...had a really bad pick. He will be a good QB for us, but stop acting like he's going to be the 2nd coming!
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I wouldn't say he had a "really bad" INT, he barely under threw it on that play. Another 6 inches up and our WR catches that ball.
 

Whoever Kill & Limegrover think gives us the best chance.

I left up to me it would be Max - provided the RB's can play like they did in the 2nd half.
 




Wait. Who called Mason an idiot when he said he would choose Shortell over Gray to run the 2 min offense?
 

When Max came in, it seemed to me that on his first play he threw farther downfield than Grey had in the game so far.

Is this a sign of a lack of confidence in MarQueis's passing, or Limegrover seeing an opportunity with a QB change?

Of course, if I remember it incorrectly, that would be a byproduct of beer sales at TCF.
 

I vote Gray. I still think he gives defenses more trouble to defend because they need to bring the safeties up. As others have mentioned, Shortell did great in the 1st half and at other games last year when he came in and the opponents didn't have time to adjust. But once teams have adjusted or had a whole week to prepare, he's looked very human. Don't get me wrong, I like Shortell and think it's a great blessing to have a capable option off the bench. I normally don't like playing multiple QBs but in this case I wouldn't mind spotting Shortell every 3rd or 4th series. It would force teams to prepare for more styles.
 

station19 said:
# of votes % of votes
MarQueis Gray 222 33%
Max Shortell 461 67%
Total Votes 683
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That's irrelevant. The average fan is an idiot. In fact, the people who vote in those star tribune polls are hardly ever fans. I trust a gopher hole pole much more. This is one of the most negative boards i've seen. If gray is still being supported by the majority here, then I think starting him is the right decision.
 

Same vote I've had for a year: both
Shortell at QB, Gray at WR (w/time elsewhere as well)
 

afurry91 said:
I'm glad it's not my decision to make. Has anyone ever had a dual QB formation? haha
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In the old single wing formations, just about everybody in the backfield could pass (including the QB, who was basically a blocking back).
 

Rosemountian said:
Except when he couldn't avoid those pesky nerves against Michigan last year.
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Oh!! That's right!! Almost forgot! You're right on the money though, a true freshman starting at the Big House pretty much the same as a senior starting at Sam Boyd.
 

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