Has Fleck lost this team?

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The team needs to take a step back and look at all Fleck accomplished last year. I mean, he won the MAC! Shouldn't that count for something? Oh sure, he only beat 3 D1 teams that ended up above .500 for the regular season, but that's not his fault.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
The team needs to take a step back and look at all Fleck accomplished last year. I mean, he won the MAC! Shouldn't that count for something? Oh sure, he only beat 3 D1 teams that ended up above .500 for the regular season, but that's not his fault.
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Guess how many the Gophers beat?
 

Agreed things just snowballed today.

everybody knows my name said:
No, it was just a terrible game.
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I agree with this sentiment. Things just snowballed when the turnovers hit, and then the wide receiver drops. I understand they receivers do not have a lot of game experience, and the weather conditions were terrible, but the wide receivers did their quarterback no favors today by not at least catching some of those footballs. The game turned on the Mccraray fumble #22. The team already was suffering from poor field position all game, but that turnover really seemed to turn the game in Northwestern's favor. Give them credit, they were able to handle the poor weather and field conditions and they the Cats were the better team today. This stuff happens every week in college football. They are not as bad as they were this week and not as good a team as last week's game. Croft needs that internal clock in his head, you hold the ball 3-4 seconds and bad to poor things happen.
 


cncmin said:
When you have 5 turnovers all based on simple mistakes that appear to be directly affected by the weather, one week after a well-executed and hard-fought home win ...do you really think so?
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and the opponent scored easily on four of those turnovers? I think on two of them they scored on the first or second play from scrimmage -
 


I wish I spoke "body language"

Then maybe I would know
 

e.bigelow said:
Unfortunately, I’m going to have to agree with your 60/40. We have such a fickle fan base in regards to season ticket holders that estimate is probably conservative. I’ll be there in my Maroon & gold hoping for a shot in the dark, but it’s gonna be a tough one. Wisconsin is good.


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Dear Lord, ask me for a thousand dollars to have the right to buy my tickets and put on a suck show for 50 years and call me fickle? Really? I’m glad you are a super fan but you may appear in th MMPI as delusional with a persecution complex. I was born the last year we shared a conference title and I am 50. I won’t live to see another, likely. Fickle?
 

Maybe you won't live to see one, but I will!
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
The team needs to take a step back and look at all Fleck accomplished last year. I mean, he won the MAC! Shouldn't that count for something? Oh sure, he only beat 3 D1 teams that ended up above .500 for the regular season, but that's not his fault.
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So Fleck was 3-0 in the regular season vs teams who finished above .500 and Claeys was 2-4. Which is better? And one of the wins was the same for both of them.
 





Breakin' The Plane said:
Yeah, but that was Year 0 for Claeys, so it shouldn't count. Right?
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PJ gets a pass on everything with some. And, when someone else questions him the Flecksters bring up Claeys. Rinse. Repeat.


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Spoofin said:
PJ gets a pass on everything with some. And, when someone else questions him the Flecksters bring up Claeys. Rinse. Repeat.


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The Claeysists want to make last year into something more than it was. And when someone questions that it wasn't, call them Flecksters. Rinse. Repeat.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Claeysists want to make last year into something more than it was. And when someone questions that it wasn't, call them Flecksters. Rinse. Repeat.
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Funny that you are always the one to bring him up then. Always.


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Spoofin said:
Funny that you are always the one to bring him up then. Always.


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When someone wants to try and degrade what Fleck accomplished and pretend Claeys accomplished more when he didn't, what else should I do?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
This is year 1 for Fleck and last year was Claeys 6th year on campus. Is there a difference? Yes.
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I hope you're going to be consistent with your "logic".

If Claeys was in his 6th year here, then he also gets credit for all of Kill's accomplishments right?

I'm fine with that line of thinking as I think of the Claeys regime as an extension of the Kill regime. However, I've seen a lot of people make this argument about Claeys but then not praise him for turning the program around.
 

Stan said:
It sure looks like the effort isn't there, has Fleck lost the locker room? Or is this just a one-week issue? Obviously last week was all rainbows and unicorns, but it sure looks like we need to change our best and change our how.
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Any first year coach from the outside is going to lose a good portion of the team. A bunch are lost right away (I know you did not mean that group), but guys like Elmore and the O linemen bail because they either do not like what went down, or do not like what they see in the new coach.

I suspect that PJ Fleck has lost a lot of the carryovers that stuck around especially the seniors and a few younger guys that were skeptical, but stuck around to see what might happen, even if they were not too convinced by all the parlour tricks and BS like many have been.

Probably not a lot of this matters, since his recruits and some of the returning players presumably fully buy in. This natural disconnect is somewhat unavoidable and that is one of the reasons for the poor transition and a drop in result from the previous regime, which happens all the time (apparently not at Purdue though).

At this point more than few of the players probably think PJ Fleck is completely full of BS or even borderline mentally unstable, and cannot wait to be gone. They are just playing out the hand and all will be gone next year. We probably will see 2-3 of the most talented players with some eligibility leave (I hope not one or two I think might leave), plus scores of lesser contributors, but again that is not uncommon after a change in HC.

None of this really matters as it is all over after next Saturday. If things are still awful in 2019 then I will know that my fear about Fleck being a MAC flash in the pan was valid, but now we really do not know.

I know one thing for sure, Fleck was not lying when he told us "he was not for everyone". Clearly I cannot stand him, or to be more charitable am a skeptic and think he is sort of goofy, but if he wins over time, I'll overlook it. I was hoping he would make me move past my reservations by the results this year. Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait two more years to know for sure.

I did not want to accept that the program was going downhill again and this would be some sort of rebuild, but that is now what is going to happen. I bet next year is going to be not so great either. so maybe this is just year -1.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
When someone wants to try and degrade what Fleck accomplished and pretend Claeys accomplished more when he didn't, what else should I do?
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But, that's not what happened - and that is my point.
The first thing (degrade what PJ accomplished) happened...
Breakin' The Plane said:
The team needs to take a step back and look at all Fleck accomplished last year. I mean, he won the MAC! Shouldn't that count for something? Oh sure, he only beat 3 D1 teams that ended up above .500 for the regular season, but that's not his fault.
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The second (say Claeys accomplished more) didn't, yet, we get this....
GopherWeatherGuy said:
So Fleck was 3-0 in the regular season vs teams who finished above .500 and Claeys was 2-4. Which is better? And one of the wins was the same for both of them.
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Just like always. When PJ is questioned, go after Claeys. Rinse. Repeat.


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Bob_Loblaw said:
I hope you're going to be consistent with your "logic".

If Claeys was in his 6th year here, then he also gets credit for all of Kill's accomplishments right?

I'm fine with that line of thinking as I think of the Claeys regime as an extension of the Kill regime. However, I've seen a lot of people make this argument about Claeys but then not praise him for turning the program around.
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Claeys absolutely gets credit for turning the defense around, but that didn't happen until years 3 and 4. I've said it 100 times, I never had a problem with Claeys as a defensive coordinator.

As for turning the overall program around? From what? The program was still mediocre, which it has been since year 3 of Glen Mason. I think what Mason accomplished is still slightly better than what Kill/Claeys accomplished.

The program hasn't been and won't be turned around until they win a few west titles and start beating Wisconsin/Iowa more regularly.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
So if you don't like what Fleck accomplished, then there's no way you liked what Claeys accomplished right?
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Claeys is gone man. Let go. The rest of us have.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
So if you don't like what Fleck accomplished, then there's no way you liked what Claeys accomplished right?
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Again, why bring Claeys into it? Does it make you feel better that they fired a guy with no great wins and replaced him with a guy with no great wins?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Claeys absolutely gets credit for turning the defense around, but that didn't happen until years 3 and 4. I've said it 100 times, I never had a problem with Claeys as a defensive coordinator.

As for turning the overall program around? From what? The program was still mediocre, which it has been since year 3 of Glen Mason. I think what Mason accomplished is still slightly better than what Kill/Claeys accomplished.

The program hasn't been and won't be turned around until they win a few west titles and start beating Wisconsin/Iowa more regularly.
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So the answer is no, you will not give Claeys credit for turning the program around and still act like he was the head coach for six years. And to say that the program was in the same state from Mason thru Kill/Claeys is just stupid. Mason had to rebuild after Wacker and Kill had to rebuild after Brewster. Just like the coach after PJ will have to rebuild.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Again, why bring Claeys into it? Does it make you feel better that they fired a guy with no great wins and replaced him with a guy with no great wins?
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Why won't you answer my question? To answer yours, yes, because I think it will lead to greater wins in the future.
 

leadpipegopher said:
So the answer is no, you will not give Claeys credit for turning the program around and still act like he was the head coach for six years. And to say that the program was in the same state from Mason thru Kill/Claeys is just stupid. Mason had to rebuild after Wacker and Kill had to rebuild after Brewster. Just like the coach after PJ will have to rebuild.
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Brew still went to bowl games in 2 of the 4 years. Mediocre.

I can't wait for you to still be here and eat crow in a few years. Just like all the Pitino bashers have to do now, even though (not surprisingly) they are nowhere to be found.
 

I highly doubt he has lost the team, even if they only have one more week of practice and one more game left.

Those kids went through one heck of an indoctrination process.


The actual question is if he has lost the fanbase, at this point. But after the Michigan and NW losses, the same could be asked for any coach, regardless of coaching style. Could be tough if he doesn't show much or any improvement next year too. Year three would be make or break, for 8 or 9 wins.
 

Stan said:
It sure looks like the effort isn't there, has Fleck lost the locker room? Or is this just a one-week issue? Obviously last week was all rainbows and unicorns, but it sure looks like we need to change our best and change our how.
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I doubt Fleck has lost the team but I have a fairly strong feeling that Croft has lost the confidence of his offensive teammates. They know what they are dealing with more than anyone.
 

That last TD by I think Acker-- Duke gave very little effort in trying to tackle him.

I think the coaches have gave up on some of the players more than the players giving up. Punting in the 4th on the NW side of the field, not even to bother maybe a screen pass during the game and if Croft was hurt like I have been hearing why would you not put someone else in.
 

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