Has Fleck lost this team?

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
Brew still went to bowl games in 2 of the 4 years. Mediocre.

I can't wait for you to still be here and eat crow in a few years. Just like all the Pitino bashers have to do now, even though (not surprisingly) they are nowhere to be found.
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...and what has little Ricky accomplished so far? He's gotten decent recruiting classes but hasn't won an NCAA tournament game. Some of us actually care about results.
 

leadpipegopher said:
...and what has little Ricky accomplished so far? He's gotten decent recruiting classes but hasn't won an NCAA tournament game. Some of us actually care about results.
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A little difference in hoops vs. football. There's 6 teams in the BB Top 25 right now who don't play highest level D1 football.
 

I don't know if he has lost the team or not. However, after all of the talk and self promotion out of him this year, I really can't imagine what you say when you go into the locker room after the beatdown today. My guess is quite a few of the guys are not sure what to believe. Probably some of the staff as well.
 

Some of this ties in with the recruiting situation. If I remember correctly, the team has 17 seniors - or has 17 players who will use up their eligibility. Yet, I think it was one of the pay sites that said the Gophers plan to sign 23 players (approximately) on signing day.

So, unless they are bringing in a lot of PWO's, then the coaches are assuming or counting on the fact that multiple players with eligibility remaining are planning to transfer. Maybe they already know - maybe they just suspect.

But the numbers certainly seem to indicate there will be more transfers than usual.

One can speculate that this is what Fleck means when he says (as he has several times) that the team will be "even younger next year."

I could take a hard line and say Fleck is running off players he didn't recruit, or take a more charitable approach and say that players who aren't in sync with Fleck are choosing to go elsewhere.

Either way, it adds up to more roster movement, and potentially a couple of more very unsettled years. If I could afford it, I would ask to be put in a medically-induced coma for the next two years. something tells me there are going to be more unwatchable games before things get better. (assuming they do get better..........)
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Some of this ties in with the recruiting situation. If I remember correctly, the team has 17 seniors - or has 17 players who will use up their eligibility. Yet, I think it was one of the pay sites that said the Gophers plan to sign 23 players (approximately) on signing day.

So, unless they are bringing in a lot of PWO's, then the coaches are assuming or counting on the fact that multiple players with eligibility remaining are planning to transfer. Maybe they already know - maybe they just suspect.

But the numbers certainly seem to indicate there will be more transfers than usual.

One can speculate that this is what Fleck means when he says (as he has several times) that the team will be "even younger next year."

I could take a hard line and say Fleck is running off players he didn't recruit, or take a more charitable approach and say that players who aren't in sync with Fleck are choosing to go elsewhere.

Either way, it adds up to more roster movement, and potentially a couple of more very unsettled years. If I could afford it, I would ask to be put in a medically-induced coma for the next two years. something tells me there are going to be more unwatchable games before things get better. (assuming they do get better..........)
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As usual, good points SON.

If I was cynical, I might go one step further and say it could explain why PJ chooses to play certain injured players at the expense of giving us a better chance to win games in Year 0. Could be making their life hell or could be showing someone else that you will never see the field while I am coach.

PJ wouldn't do that tho - he is a former teacher and all about the kids.


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short ornery norwegian said:
Some of this ties in with the recruiting situation. If I remember correctly, the team has 17 seniors - or has 17 players who will use up their eligibility. Yet, I think it was one of the pay sites that said the Gophers plan to sign 23 players (approximately) on signing day.

So, unless they are bringing in a lot of PWO's, then the coaches are assuming or counting on the fact that multiple players with eligibility remaining are planning to transfer. Maybe they already know - maybe they just suspect.

But the numbers certainly seem to indicate there will be more transfers than usual.

One can speculate that this is what Fleck means when he says (as he has several times) that the team will be "even younger next year."

I could take a hard line and say Fleck is running off players he didn't recruit, or take a more charitable approach and say that players who aren't in sync with Fleck are choosing to go elsewhere.

Either way, it adds up to more roster movement, and potentially a couple of more very unsettled years. If I could afford it, I would ask to be put in a medically-induced coma for the next two years. something tells me there are going to be more unwatchable games before things get better. (assuming they do get better..........)
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They are only at 81 scholarships right now, so 4 plus the graduating class. As mentioned in another thread there are likely 3-5 JRs that will be done and we'll find that out next week, but there are several that graduate early every year. I'm sure there will be more transfers, but that happens every year too.
 

Spoofin said:
As usual, good points SON.

If I was cynical, I might go one step further and say it could explain why PJ chooses to play certain injured players at the expense of giving us a better chance to win games in Year 0. Could be making their life hell or could be showing someone else that you will never see the field while I am coach.

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Fleck is really shooting himself in the foot if he claims Croft was injured. Playing an injured QB late in a cold, wet blowout which probably exposes him to more injury, is pretty bad. Unless they didn’t even bring a backup QB on the trip which is obviously highly unlikely.
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leadpipegopher said:
...and what has little Ricky accomplished so far? He's gotten decent recruiting classes but hasn't won an NCAA tournament game. Some of us actually care about results.
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Finished with the most B1G wins in 24 seasons, or 20 seasons if you want to count the vacated win seasons, what a terrible accomplishment.

That's a number they'll likely surpass this season. They'll also likely win at least one if not several NCAA tournament games.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Finished with the most B1G wins in 24 seasons, or 20 seasons if you want to count the vacated win seasons, what a terrible accomplishment.

That's a number they'll likely surpass this season. They'll also likely win at least one if not several NCAA tournament games.
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So he's went 11-7 in conference and first round tournament loss, that's his best year. So you'll champion mediocrity if it's one of your guys. I don't really care about basketball, but you better hope those recruiting classes keep coming cause from what I've seen he can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. Won't comment on Ricky anymore since it's about Fleck, but the same deal, Fleck needs to out recruit the other guy to win, and he just won't be able to do that here.
 



leadpipegopher said:
So he's went 11-7 in conference and first round tournament loss, that's his best year. So you'll champion mediocrity if it's one of your guys. I don't really care about basketball, but you better hope those recruiting classes keep coming cause from what I've seen he can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. Won't comment on Ricky anymore since it's about Fleck, but the same deal, Fleck needs to out recruit the other guy to win, and he just won't be able to do that here.
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So if finishing 4th out of 14 teams is mediocre (it's not), then you'll agree that finishing 4th out of 7 teams in the west, and 7th out of 14 teams overall last year is even more mediocre. Way to champion mediocrity for one of your guys.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
So if finishing 4th out of 14 teams is mediocre (it's not), then you'll agree that finishing 4th out of 7 teams in the west, and 7th out of 14 teams overall last year is even more mediocre. Way to champion mediocrity for one of your guys.
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I'm just trying to figure out your ever moving standards. Nobody is better at spinning the numbers than you. You've already established Claeys was somehow the head coach for 6 years, he was 5-3 in conference in 2014. That's statistically better than 11-7. If 11-7 is 4th out of 14, then that's a mediocre conference as well.
 

leadpipegopher said:
I'm just trying to figure out your ever moving standards. Nobody is better at spinning the numbers than you. You've already established Claeys was somehow the head coach for 6 years, he was 5-3 in conference in 2014. That's statistically better than 11-7. If 11-7 is 4th out of 14, then that's a mediocre conference as well.
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Never said he was the head coach for 6 years once. He and the majority of his coaching staff were definitely here recruiting and coaching for 6 years. Kill was 5-3 in 2014. They finished 4th overall in the B1G which is exactly where Pitino was at 11-7. How is that markedly better?

If you wan't to say Pitino's season last year was mediocre then fine. Then you'll also agree that all of Kill/Cleays seasons were mediocre.

But this year won't be mediocre at all for the basketball team and I definitely believe the football team will follow a similar path a few years down the road.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Never said he was the head coach for 6 years once. He and the majority of his coaching staff were definitely here recruiting and coaching for 6 years. Kill was 5-3 in 2014. They finished 4th overall in the B1G which is exactly where Pitino was at 11-7. How is that markedly better?

If you wan't to say Pitino's season last year was mediocre then fine. Then you'll also agree that all of Kill/Cleays seasons were mediocre.

But this year won't be mediocre at all for the basketball team and I definitely believe the football team will follow a similar path a few years down the road.
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Really, cause I thought it was you saying Kill/Claeys didn't accomplish anything and then started championing Pitino? Could have been a different weather guy.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Never said he was the head coach for 6 years once. He and the majority of his coaching staff were definitely here recruiting and coaching for 6 years. Kill was 5-3 in 2014. They finished 4th overall in the B1G which is exactly where Pitino was at 11-7. How is that markedly better?

If you wan't to say Pitino's season last year was mediocre then fine. Then you'll also agree that all of Kill/Cleays seasons were mediocre.

But this year won't be mediocre at all for the basketball team and I definitely believe the football team will follow a similar path a few years down the road.
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Really, cause I thought it was you saying Kill/Claeys didn't accomplish anything and then started championing Pitino? Could have been a different weather guy.
 

leadpipegopher said:
Really, cause I thought it was you saying Kill/Claeys didn't accomplish anything and then started championing Pitino? Could have been a different weather guy.
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When were Kill/Claeys ever ranked in the top 15 to start the season and predicted to finish 1st or 2nd in the conference? And this is only his 5th year. At the end of next year check back and we can compare accomplishments when they’ve been on campus the same amount of time.
 


Word around Pennsylvania is that James Franklin is on the hot seat in Happy Valley after an embarrassing 12-point home victory over Nebraska. Fleck, who beat Nebraska just the week before by far more, is apparently one of the top candidates.

Thankfully, we all may not have to worry about the players refusing to play for Fleck much longer. I hope we get Claeys back, that man could really recruit, and his assistants were pretty stellar with Dilly Bars.
 

cncmin said:
Word around Pennsylvania is that James Franklin is on the hot seat in Happy Valley after an embarrassing 12-point home victory over Nebraska. Fleck, who beat Nebraska just the week before by far more, is apparently one of the top candidates.

Thankfully, we all may not have to worry about the players refusing to play for Fleck much longer. I hope we get Claeys back, that man could really recruit, and his assistants were pretty stellar with Dilly Bars.
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I'll have what you're having!:cool:
 

cncmin said:
Word around Pennsylvania is that James Franklin is on the hot seat in Happy Valley after an embarrassing 12-point home victory over Nebraska. Fleck, who beat Nebraska just the week before by far more, is apparently one of the top candidates.

Thankfully, we all may not have to worry about the players refusing to play for Fleck much longer. I hope we get Claeys back, that man could really recruit, and his assistants were pretty stellar with Dilly Bars.
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Yup. Class full of 4 and 5 stars coming in. And the Dilly Bar guy is on Fleck's sideline too.
 



I would prefer to keep the basketball talk off the football board.

But - just for the heck of it: a basketball team has 15 players, tops. 2 or 3 recruits can turn a program around.

A football team has 85 scholarship players and over 100 players on the roster. Football is a game of depth. 2 or 3 recruits can help, but unless they are absolute 5* super-star, heisman candidate type players, 2 or 3 guys will not tip the scales.

It is a true Apples to Oranges comparison.
 

Maroon92 said:
That last TD by I think Acker-- Duke gave very little effort in trying to tackle him.

I think the coaches have gave up on some of the players more than the players giving up. Punting in the 4th on the NW side of the field, not even to bother maybe a screen pass during the game and if Croft was hurt like I have been hearing why would you not put someone else in.
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Wait, so in terrible weather, down over 30 with zero chance of winning, you're going to put up the example of a player who didn't give 100% on one single play that made no difference in the end result as evidence of ... ?
 

GopherVotary said:
No, but he'd like to.
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Well played.
I love the "Has he lost this team qiestion?" We had 5 turnovers and have no WRs. Are people actually watching who is playing? None of the three guys who were supposed to be starting at WR can play, same with a couple of offensive linemen, or defensive backfield. He hasn't lost this team mentally, he's lost about a quarter of it physically with no playable depth behind it.
 


People posting on this forum discussing the actual topic are really working hard to find stuff to criticize Fleck about.

Do they want Fleck fired? No.

Do they just want to complain about Fleck? I guess so.
 

Face The Facts said:
People posting on this forum discussing the actual topic are really working hard to find stuff to criticize Fleck about.

Do they want Fleck fired? No.

Do they just want to complain about Fleck? I guess so.
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Or maybe, possibly, stay with me here, they are criticizing PJ because there are things they legitimately don't like about PJ, his coaching, etc. I can only speak for myself, but I don't have to work very hard to find stuff to criticize PJ about. He makes it pretty easy, really.


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Spoofin said:
Or maybe, possibly, stay with me here, they are criticizing PJ because there are things they legitimately don't like about PJ, his coaching, etc. I can only speak for myself, but I don't have to work very hard to find stuff to criticize PJ about. He makes it pretty easy, really.


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Really? Maybe you should post more often.
 

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