Gophs recruiting at a MAC level??

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dinkything

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I am a fan of Coach Kill and anticipate he will eventually lead the Gopher football program back to where Glen Mason had it...

>> 8-15 record with 0 bowl appearances during Glen's first 2 seasons

>>18-17 record with 2 bowl appearances during his next 3 seasons

>>38-25 record with 5 bowl appearances during Glen's final 5 seasons (with bowl victories over Arkansas, Oregon, and Alabama, all in the past decade:))

Smilin' Glen (as PR used to refer to him) developed and coached well, though he did not inherit much in terms of high-end talent heading into that inaugural 1997 season.

One could argue that Jerry Kill did not inherit a whole lot more, although that is difficult to believe, since the brew was a self-proclaimed recruiting machine. The brew's highly acclaimed recruiting class of 2008 is now mostly gone (looks like WR Xzavian Brandon is the next from this class to depart for greener pastures). Many on these boards gave the brew a free pass during the ensuing recruiting seasons, suggesting he shouldn't be expected to follow up that 2008 recruiting class with additional blockbuster classes because the cupboard here was finally fully stocked with high-end talent, and prospective recruits would surely be scared away to more enticing depth charts elsewhere.

But that turns out to be fallacy, as Kill recently described next season's roster of upperclassmen as 'empty' (see Phil Miller's column on 12/15).

My 2 questions are as follows:

1. With the exception of a few local guys (i.e. Pirsig, Hayes, Nelson, Williams) who want to play in front of family and friends, it looks like Jerry Kill is recruiting primarily at a MAC level. Many 'holer posters regularly mention Jerry Kill is recruiting players to 'his system'...which we universally acknowledge. But one previous poster inquired whether there are any 4-and-5-star players that might also fit his system?
Given the current recruiting scenario, should better on-field results be expected? (I think so...eventually being lifted to a Glen Mason level)

2. Keeping in mind the brew's recruiting class of 2008...and looking ahead to April when the 2012 NFL draft will take place, should we be rivited to our tv's watching Roger Goodell rattling off names of Gopher football players who were recruited by the brew? in which rounds might their names be called?
 

Get ready to be called a Badger fan or Gopher hater. But to answer your question, yes, for the most part we are recruiting at a MAC level. People were frustrated towards the end of Mason's tenure when he recruited against the small Ohio schools for recruits. We jumped for joy when Brew initially brought in many kids that the MAC schools barely recruited because they knew they had no shot. Now we are back to recruiting like we did 2005-07. That doesn't mean it won't work and it doesn't mean that we are doing a bad job, but anyone that says that we aren't recruiting at a MAC level is lying to themselves. Kill is either a master at finding the diamonds in the rough or will be a master at coaching 'em up. Brewster's way didn't work so hopefully going back to the MAC level recruiting that Mason had will work. I believe in Kill, but I also acknowledge that we're recruiting at a MAC level.
 

Year 1: Find some diamonds. Coach 'em up.

Year 2: Find some diamonds. Coach 'em up. Have some success.

Year 3: Cash in on success. Better recruits. Find some more diamonds. Keep coaching 'em up. Have even more success.

Year 4. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Not rocket science.
 

How many 20-42 teams over the last five seasons are recruiting above a MAC level? When the coach was in the MAC he was beating and competing very well with B1G teams with MAC players.

Think "foundation". He is recruiting to balance classes and build a solid foundation. He is recruiting guys he thinks can fill these gaps. He is recruiting speed and defense. Turning around nearly 50 years of bad football will not be easy. Mason was able to do so for 5 of those 50 years.

The recruits will be tough and smart football players. They will also know that no other BCS teams necessarily wanted them. I'll take that in building a foundation.
 

1)The thing of it is, we all started following and ranking recruiting success based on rivals/scout/ESPN.
There's value in that because better recruits are often highly visible and recruited, but not all of them.
Matheiu from LSU is one of the best college players I've seen in a long time, he had offers from SMU, Lousiana Monroe, Tulane, etc until LSU found him, a guy simply not highly "rated", but clearly one of the best players in the nation now.
There are plenty of examples like that, enough that we can have SOME faith in Coach Kill's ability to find kids who can play and develop them.

We're not going to get out state studs with our current position in college football, not very often anyway. Brewster had Mason's recent track record of mediocrity mixed with available PT, i can't remember how many times I heard Maroney and Barber brought up by recruits in 08/09/10. Now we have not much at all to sell besides the stadium and the actual school and program. No BS, we don't have any to sling.

TCU developed their program under Patterson the same way Kill is trying to. They had texas to in state recruit, we don't. We are a BCS program, they weren't. Look at TCU, that is very likely the type of team we will strive to be under Kill recruitingwise and on the field.

2)I do believe there are more than a few guys Brewster brought in will play and play well in the NFL, McKnight has all the tools and the size to be an NFL receiver, any Big Ten linebacker will get a look so i think Tinsley probably is in a camp, Gray will find himself a mid round pick if he has a nice season next year. Guys simply didn't develop under Brewster like they should have.
 


Yeah Kill just sucks at recruiting. I mean he can't convince the top kids in the country to come play for a 3-9 Big Ten cellar dweller. He's worthless. Stupid 2 star recruits like Eric Decker and Greg Eslinger... they probably sucked in college too

Everyone wondering why 4 and 5 star kids aren't coming here really need to think about it for a second. Now, in two or three years assuming we get back to respectability, one might have an argument. But really, after one year of 3-9 football did you really expect to be bringing in the next Matt Barkley?

It is absolutely insane what high expectations people have for MN teams...damn passive aggressive Minnesotans.
 

First and foremost, I believe Kill is trying to establish depth across the board. He's recruiting solid athletes who should be able to compete at the FBS level. May take some teaching, but he appears to have a solid group of kids who will contribute and will stay through their eligibility. Of course, that remains to be seen, but Kill is the first head coach we've had in a long time (probably since Holtz) who appears to have a top-to-bottom system to which he adheres almost religiously. That makes me optimistic.
 

I disagree that Kill is recruiting at a MAC level, but I do know that you are posting at a UMAC level.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
How many 20-42 teams over the last five seasons are recruiting above a MAC level?
Click to expand...

James Franklin at Vanderbilt.

"Since the start of the 2000 season Vanderbilt has record of only 36–93 and 14–74 in SEC play (doesn't count 6-6 season from this year)."

That said, I pretty much agree with the rest of your comment.
 



Recruiting in MAC country is good for the Gophers. While critics will always claim "Ohio State rejects", the fact is that these guys come from a part of the country that is beat only by Texas in its love of football. They know college football, and as a result they place a high premium on playing in the Big Ten. Also, Minneapolis looks like a paradise compared to a lot of the Midwest/Northeast's rustbelt communities, so you are battling less of a perception that a recruit is moving "up to the tundra" or whatever.

Like Mason, Kill knows the MAC. So he should be able to skim the cream off the top of the conference's recruits.

In the future, I would like to see the Gophers heavily recruit the Gulf Coast. This appears to be where the most un-tapped potential is. But in order to have much success there the program probably has to get back to the point where it can compete on the field with Alabama and Arkansas again, and regularly beat Sunbelt Conference teams by 4-5 touchdowns,
 

How many out of state 4 star players has Wisconsin recruited that have been solid contributors to their back to back Rose Bowl appearances? I only see one in Montee Ball from the classes of 2007, 08, 09, and 10 that would have been the primary contributing players. Wisconsin locks down the high end in-state talent, does a great job of recruiting the o-line, and then sprinkles in some 3-star or projectable athletes from other parts of the country. I'm guessing this will be a similar blue-print for Kill. I also expect that after 4 full classes of recruits from Kill, we will see a couple 4 star recruits from outside of Minnesota (assuming we see the expected progression on the field).
 

Goldmember said:
Recruiting in MAC country is good for the Gophers. While critics will always claim "Ohio State rejects", the fact is that these guys come from a part of the country that is beat only by Texas in its love of football. They know college football, and as a result they place a high premium on playing in the Big Ten. Also, Minneapolis looks like a paradise compared to a lot of the Midwest/Northeast's rustbelt communities, so you are battling less of a perception that a recruit is moving "up to the tundra" or whatever.

Like Mason, Kill knows the MAC. So he should be able to skim the cream off the top of the conference's recruits.

In the future, I would like to see the Gophers heavily recruit the Gulf Coast. This appears to be where the most un-tapped potential is. But in order to have much success there the program probably has to get back to the point where it can compete on the field with Alabama and Arkansas again, and regularly beat Sunbelt Conference teams by 4-5 touchdowns,
Click to expand...

Kill seems very connected to high school football in the Great Plains (Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri) as well and, as you say, he's hit the Deep South harder than I thought he would. A lot of recruiting is about networks and Kill and his assistants appear to have a fairly well developed set of contacts in places that previous coaches did not.

I also agree with fencejumpers that Wisconsin should be the model. They are finally getting four- and five-star kids on a consistent basis, but a lot of their initial success was based more on getting solid kids, developing them, and keeping them on the squad through their eligibility.
 

dinkything said:
I am a fan of Coach Kill and anticipate he will eventually lead the Gopher football program back to where Glen Mason had it...
Click to expand...

Speaking of where Mason had it, just think about the fact that he beat Arkansas, Oregon and Alabama in consecutive bowl games. Granted, those teams were not what they are now, but that also says something about the divergent success of such teams vs. the Gophers.
 



Pretty much every Gopher that's getting an NFL paycheck right now was a "MAC-level" recruit.
 

dinkything said:
1. With the exception of a few local guys (i.e. Pirsig, Hayes, Nelson, Williams) who want to play in front of family and friends, it looks like Jerry Kill is recruiting primarily at a MAC level. Many 'holer posters regularly mention Jerry Kill is recruiting players to 'his system'...which we universally acknowledge. But one previous poster inquired whether there are any 4-and-5-star players that might also fit his system?
Click to expand...

Everyone is right-handed if you exlude the left-handed people. That Kill has landed a number of recruits who a MAC team would be very unlikely to get seriously undermines the idea that Kill has recruited at a MAC level. There may well be 4 and 5 star recruits who could work with Kill's system, but those recruits have a lot of other options. It is very hard to convince them to come to a team that might be good down the road, they can go to a team that will be good right away and probably be good through their four years there. The high spot of the previous four years was a 7-6 season in 2008. That's a pretty hard sell. Win some games, and recruiting will improve. I think Kill's recruiting meets reasonable expectations.
 

I'm not sure I agree that we're recruiting at a MAC level, but I would argue that Kill & Co is using a MAC strategy to recruiting. He's got to use his connections, dig deeper and go farther for those kids that the big guys didn't want or know about. Its the same strategy that he used at Southern Illinois and Northern Illinois. The fact that he had success at those two schools give me confidence that he will have success here too.
 

You've got to remember that we didn't have much of a recruiting class in 06 due to the Mason extension debacle nor in 07 because of the strange post-bowl game coaching change. Because of this we didn't get to redshirt some of the 08 class which would've been next year's 5th year seniors. I think it's reasonable to attribute a good chunk of the struggles over the last two years to the coaching drama from 06 and 07. As far as Kill's recruiting, Coach Miller - the one coach that wasn't with Kill at Northern Illinois - was brought in to help out in this area as he did for Florida and Miami in the past. He was involved with recruiting a lot of these kids from Florida that are committed to the Gophers that most certainly would not be going to Kent State if they weren't coming here. I think we'll be fine.
 

As much as I understand the building of a foundation, etc, etc -- I agree with the OP. Even a 3-9 school should be able to compete with N'western, Illinois and Purdue for recruits -- rather than Toledo, W Mich, FAU, etc.

It may be a curve as the team progresses, but I would have thought the beginning would have had a higher aim in sight.
 

I know many throw this "MAC-level" recruiting garbage around like it's gospel, but do you realize how bad MAC recruiting really ranks? If you just look at straight rankings, you'd realize he's recruiting at a far higher level than that (as he should be). Just because it's low in the B1G, doesn't mean it's "MAC-level" recruiting. I believe we rank above the highest MAC team in recruiting rank in pretty much any service. Scout has us at like 54th, 10th in the B1G. Temple is the first MAC school, checking in at 65th, and they have 28 commits.

We're coming off two straight 3 win seasons. And the couple years before that weren't exactly BCS bid level stuff here. Kill is fighting an uphill battle, he's not gonna win a ton of recruiting battles right now.

He is using his connections to get in on kids earlier. What I find more pleasant is the fact that there are a good chunk of guys Kill got in on early who proceeded to gain offers from other BCS schools after they were noticed. That tells me at the very least, he can see talent pretty well. Hopefully with a little more success on the field, he can close on more of those guys he hits on.
 

I like the balance of the recruiting effort. In order to have depth at critical spots in 4 years, you need to recruit more than one player, as has often been done by prior regimes. It is marvelous to see how positions are being loaded up. I don't see "depth" as depth across classes alone, but within them as well. You can not assume a player will be available in 4 years without a proper backup that has experience and proper time to mature.
 

I'm not worried about it. After getting excited about the recruits Brew was bringing in here (and being mostly let down with their production/lack thereof), I've learned to see how they play and learn on the field rather than looking at their offers or rankings.
 

I console myself with the knowledge that Kill’s success isn’t based on recruiting. When he was introduced it wasn’t, “Here’s coach Kill, a recruiting genius!” He’s a ball coach, who improves his players and squeezes everything he can out of them. I’m sure the Gophers will win 5-7 games next year and the quality of recruits will be generally a little higher, and as the win total increases so will the attractiveness of being a Gopher.
 

This thread has an absolutely stupid title. "MAC-level recruting?" Are you serious? I count 7 players: Pirsig, Hayes, Hinojosa, Shabazz, Moss, Harbison, and Nelson that have offers from the top 20 teams in the country or in the case of Nelson, that type of pedigree. A MAC team could never get one of these guys, let alone 7.

For those trying to bring back the glory days of Tim Brewster's recruiting prowess, let's go back to his last full class in 2010. Please tell me all of the great offers that these 17 players had: Eggen, Epping, Eure, Feguson, Hutton, Legania, Lenkiewicz, Lewis, Mitchell, Parish, Perry, Pride, Ragoo, Tatum, Tauaefa, Thornton, Wilson.

Get out of here with the MAC level recruiting garbage....
 

It's time to put this to rest. Scout has Minnesota's recruitng ranked higher than nearly every non-BCS team. The only non-BCS teams with higher ranked recruiting than Minnesta are TCU at #42 (although that really doesn't count, they will be in a BCS conference, BYU at #45 and SMU at #48.

Minnesota has 1 4-star recruit and 9 three star recruits. No MAC team has even one four star recruit, and the most three star recruits any MAC school has is 7.

54. Minnesota

65. Temple
t71. Toledo
76. Central Michigan
78. Miami (Oh)
79. Bowling Green
80. Ball State
83. Buffalo
84. Eastern Michigan
86. Western Michigan
89. Kent State
93. Northern Illinois
108. Ohio
113. Akron
 

Tx_Gopher said:
James Franklin at Vanderbilt.

"Since the start of the 2000 season Vanderbilt has record of only 36–93 and 14–74 in SEC play (doesn't count 6-6 season from this year)."

That said, I pretty much agree with the rest of your comment.
Click to expand...

Franklin is having a recruiting year like Brewster had in 2008. We'll see if he turns out. He has no record to go by. He is definitely someone to keep an eye on though.
 

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Scout had Hayo Carpenter as a 5-star player. We're relying on what????
 

I think Marcus Jones was a two star player.

If Kill is recruiting this type of player- that makes others on the field appear to be in slow motion and works hard on and off the field, I'm O.K. with it. And if a Jones type of player only fills out our depth, I can live with this too.

I really hope Marcus can make a full recovery!
 

Recruiting is more than stars

Some of you seem to be defining recruiting as signing players with the most stars which is a very narrow and limiting perspective. I would define that approach as a tactic and not strategy.

What Kill is doing is at Minnesota and what he has done elsewhere is strategic. The players that he and his staff have and are recruiting are selected for very specific reasons. It is based on Kill's vision and how well those players will support that vision. This vision is something that Kill has created over many years of experience through trial and error. Kill's approach is to find a collective group of recruits that will give him the best optimal solution. Often this optimal solution is achieved by recruiting athletic players such as quarterbacks that can be developed to play in multiple positions.

If you look closely you will begin to see how all the pieces fit together. Unfortunately I never felt that Brewster knew exactly what his vision was and how to put it together. But Kill does and that why in evaluating his recruiting class it should be done as a total class and not as individual pieces. Another words how well do the pieces will fit together in supporting and achieving that long term vision. If you don’t do this you will just see the trees and not the forest and it is the forest (team) that wins games not the individual trees.
 

everybody knows my name said:
I console myself with the knowledge that Kill’s success isn’t based on recruiting. When he was introduced it wasn’t, “Here’s coach Kill, a recruiting genius!” He’s a ball coach, who improves his players and squeezes everything he can out of them. I’m sure the Gophers will win 5-7 games next year and the quality of recruits will be generally a little higher, and as the win total increases so will the attractiveness of being a Gopher.
Click to expand...

Kill did show an ability to recruit at NIU. In the 3 years he was there he went from bottom 3 to top 3 in the MAC in recruiting. Again a good track record.
 

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