Gophers QBs could face a battle from Philip Nelson

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I saw your thread title and didn't even need to open the thread to know it was a Fuller piece. Marcus wrote another article that hints at moving Gray around? Weird. Never done that before (eyeroll).
 

"Max Shortell remains No. 2 behind Gray, but freshman Philip Nelson is ahead of where Shortell was last spring."

Who wants to be the first to tell him Shortell wasn't here last spring...
 


How many different guys has Kill lamented burning their redshirts last year? A bunch, right? Why on earth would he burn Nelson's redshirt in place of the team's best overall player (Gray) who plays a position where he has the ball on every play, and when that same player has a seemingly capable backup?

I love to hear that Nelson is playing well, but him starting this year makes zero sense. Even if there are injuries, I'd play Foreman or Leidner before Nelson.
 


I could sleep well at night knowing that I would never again have to read about the take of a player's father on the depth chart. Shockingly, he likes the idea of moving Gray to WR and his son to the starting QB spot.
 

To Be Named Later said:
I could sleep well at night knowing that I would never again have to read about the take of a player's father on the depth chart. Shockingly, he likes the idea of moving Gray to WR and his son to the starting QB spot.
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Badger Pat is a pain, eh? I realize this is new territory for him, but NO ONE wants the PUBLIC opinion of a parent on roster issues. Dial her back, buddy. We all love your boy, but dial her back.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
I love to hear that Nelson is playing well, but him starting this year makes zero sense. Even if there are injuries, I'd play Foreman or Leidner before Nelson.
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Moving MG to WR is a pet project of Fuller's. He'll be banging this drum all year.
 

GoAUpher said:
Moving MG to WR is a pet project of Fuller's. He'll be banging this drum all year.
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Sometime this year, while Gray is still on the roster, he should collaborate with Justin Conzemius on an article. Fuller can take turns advocating why each and every QB not named Gray (including Alipate and possibly Pirsig) should be starting, while Conzemius can write about how Gray is too tall to play QB.
 




To Be Named Later said:
I could sleep well at night knowing tha I would never again have to read about the take of a player's father on the depth chart. Shockingly, he likes the idea of moving Gray to WR and his son to the starting QB spot.
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Nelson's father would rather have his son redshirt.(that's from your Badger Pat)
 

To Be Named Later said:
I could sleep well at night knowing tha I would never again have to read about the take of a player's father on the depth chart. Shockingly, he likes the idea of moving Gray to WR and his son to the starting QB spot.
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+19
 

Man, Fuller is just a terrible, terrible writer.

I hadn't looked at the article until just now, but the entire text is full of half-truths and distortions framed to make it appear as though there is some QB controversy.

"Gophers QBs could face a battle from Philip Nelson"

- Well, yes, they "could". I "could" die tomorrow. Will I? Almost certainly not.

"MarQueis Gray, left, could enter his senior season having to fight for his quarterback job."

- Yes, he "could". Tom Brady "could" have to fight for his quarterback job this fall. Will he? Absolutely not.

"Max Shortell remains No. 2 behind Gray, but freshman Philip Nelson is ahead of where Shortell was last spring."

- Someone else already pointed this out, but this is a meaningless statement because Shortell was in HS last spring. Nelson is in college, while Shortell was in HS, so you need to state that "Nelson is ahead of where Shortell was last spring"? No sh*t, huh? How much does the PP pay you for these valuable insights?

"Kill never fully endorsed Gray during spring practice a year ago, because the Gophers wanted to see if Shortell could beat him out for the starting spot last fall"

- A. A head coach, especially in college, very rarely guarantees a starting spot to a player, and especially not publicly. Complacency breeds less than full effort.
B. Anyone who thinks there was any sort of real QB controversy last year is making it up in their own head (aka Marcus Fuller).
C. Quote from Kill last spring:

"I will say I look at some things that haven't gone so well in spring football and I look at something that's gone well. He's certainly one of them. He's done a great job. He's really surprised me for a kid that was hurt his high school senior year, then hasn't played quarterback, then making the transition to the position.
He's learned very well. He's a very quick learner. He doesn't make the same mistake twice. He's a tremendous athlete. No question about that. I think Coach Zebrowski, our quarterback coach, has done a heck of a job with him.
I'm very pleased with his progress and pleasantly surprised."

Yup, sounds like someone who Kill is ready to put on the bench, doesn't it, Marcus?

"Nelson is ahead of where Shortell was at this stage after having experienced almost an entire spring practice."

- THIS IS SHORTELL'S FIRST SPRING PRACTICE. OF COURSE NELSON IS "AHEAD OF WHERE SHORTELL WAS AT THIS STAGE" BECAUSE SHORTELL WAS IN HS A YEAR AGO!!! WHAT ABOUT THIS DO YOU NOT GET?!?!?

Quote from Pat Nelson: ""But it's also tempting to throw to MarQueis (at wide receiver this year)," Pat Nelson said. "I don't know if that will ever happen. But you never know what Kill's going to do. He's going to put his best team on the field. He's not afraid to do that. It's going to be really interesting what happens. Philip has shown Kill he has the ability to play. From where that goes, who knows?"

- These two statements are contradictory. If he's going to put his best team on the field, there is no question, with 100% certainty, that the best team starts with Gray at QB. Period. End of discussion. By definition, putting Gray at WR is inherently NOT putting your best team on the field.

Just another bang-up job, Marcus. In one aspect, I'll be glad when Gray graduates because this stupid manufactured QB controversy that exists only in Marcus's head will cease being talked about.
 



Unfortunately, it isn't just in Marcus's head, dpodoll. But you're dead on with your comments.
 

John Galt said:
"Max Shortell remains No. 2 behind Gray, but freshman Philip Nelson is ahead of where Shortell was last spring."

Who wants to be the first to tell him Shortell wasn't here last spring...
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The shocking thing is, that little tid-bit probably had to make it past somebody who was proof-reading the article as well.

That being said, it's AWESOME for players like Nelson and Leidner to be in camp this spring. Huge, huge advantage that will help them immensely. I'm probably in the minority but from what I saw last year, if Shortell had actually made it to campus for spring ball last year, I think he would have taken 75% of the snaps at QB last fall. With how shaky Gray was through the first 2/3 of the season, Shortell would have stepped in and taken over. Not having the grasp of the offense like he would have had if he went through spring ball kept Gray just enough in front of him to remain the starter.

At any rate, it's great for the HS guys and JUCO guys to be in camp for spring ball and love hearing that they're doing well!!!
 




i swear, gray and his career 49.2% completion rate, 9 tds and 9 ints, and 110 passer rating is going to go down in history as the best gopher quarterback who ever lived even if we have to redefine what makes a quarterback great.

his numbers at wr are arguably as good if not better than his numbers at qb. i mean his 42 receptions, 587 yards and 5 tds came at a time when the gophers were helmed by, what is consensus on this board was the sh1ttiest qb ever to wear the maroon and gold, adam weber. and it was only his second year (first real year) to play the position.

he runs well, but had 966 yards on 199 carries and six touchdowns on 4.9 ypc. those are good numbers, but are similar to weber's 2007 numbers 617 on 146 and five tds on 4.2 ypc. especially if you consider that 2007 was a pass happy year for the gophers. weber threw more than twice the amount that gray did in 2011 (449 attempts to 213).

gray is nothing better than an average big ten quarterback (N.B. the present tense of that statement!) and if there is an above average quarterback on the roster, then play him with gray at wr. here is the argument i was hearing in 2009 and '10: adam weber has regressed. gray is the future. play gray to get him experience. now, seeing as most gopher fans are expecting 5-7 wins this year, wouldn't it be better to play the future if that guy is ready rather than a guy who probably won't be drafted as a qb?

my logic is unassailable.
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
gray is nothing better than an average big ten quarterback (N.B. the present tense of that statement!) and if there is an above average quarterback on the roster, then play him with gray at wr. here is the argument i was hearing in 2009 and '10: adam weber has regressed. gray is the future. play gray to get him experience. now, seeing as most gopher fans are expecting 5-7 wins this year, wouldn't it be better to play the future if that guy is ready rather than a guy who probably won't be drafted as a qb?

my logic is unassailable.
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Your logic is quite assailable. Weber had 3 full years of starting (all under the same HC) to prove that he sucked. He also played no other position than QB, and was never away from the game for a second. Gray has had one year as a starter. Prior to that season, he played the majority of 2 full seasons at WR, and was away from football for a BS suspension for a full year before that. The situations would be somewhat similar if Gray had been given the reins from the start of the 2010 season (like he should have been), and there would be more of a basis to destroy his abilities as a QB. Then again, you think that 4.9 ypr is "similar" to 4.2 ypr, so I'm assuming your opinion isn't going to be swayed on this.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Your logic is quite assailable. Weber had 3 full years of starting (all under the same HC) to prove that he sucked. He also played no other position than QB, and was never away from the game for a second. Gray has had one year as a starter. Prior to that season, he played the majority of 2 full seasons at WR, and was away from football for a BS suspension for a full year before that. The situations would be somewhat similar if Gray had been given the reins from the start of the 2010 season (like he should have been), and there would be more of a basis to destroy his abilities as a QB. Then again, you think that 4.9 ypr is "similar" to 4.2 ypr, so I'm assuming your opinion isn't going to be swayed on this.
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dude, it's called irony.

this is what i want from you mr. podoll. i want a step by step refutation of my points where you address every sentence with your, ahem, logic. that is what i expected. i am actually kind of hurt that you would give me short shrift. do i not rank well enough to deserve the full dpodoll68 treatment?
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
i swear, gray and his career 49.2% completion rate, 9 tds and 9 ints, and 110 passer rating is going to go down in history as the best gopher quarterback who ever lived even if we have to redefine what makes a quarterback great.

his numbers at wr are arguably as good if not better than his numbers at qb. i mean his 42 receptions, 587 yards and 5 tds came at a time when the gophers were helmed by, what is consensus on this board was the sh1ttiest qb ever to wear the maroon and gold, adam weber. and it was only his second year (first real year) to play the position.

he runs well, but had 966 yards on 199 carries and six touchdowns on 4.9 ypc. those are good numbers, but are similar to weber's 2007 numbers 617 on 146 and five tds on 4.2 ypc. especially if you consider that 2007 was a pass happy year for the gophers. weber threw more than twice the amount that gray did in 2011 (449 attempts to 213).

gray is nothing better than an average big ten quarterback (N.B. the present tense of that statement!) and if there is an above average quarterback on the roster, then play him with gray at wr. here is the argument i was hearing in 2009 and '10: adam weber has regressed. gray is the future. play gray to get him experience. now, seeing as most gopher fans are expecting 5-7 wins this year, wouldn't it be better to play the future if that guy is ready rather than a guy who probably won't be drafted as a qb?

my logic is unassailable.
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Thats fine assuming there is a QB on the Gopher's roster with the ability to take the starting QB job from Marqueis Gray. A true freshman is not that QB.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Man, Fuller is just a terrible, terrible writer.

Rest of post...
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"Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources." - The Credible Hulk
 

Good teams rarely play true freshmen. It would be a refreshing change for the gophers to be able to redshirt some of the freshmen they are high on. If Nelson turns out to be the real deal and doesn't start for 2-3 years I think that would indicate that the gophers are in a pretty good place.
 

Gray had the third most rushing yards per game for quarterbacks in the nation. (He was sixth in rushing yards for quarterbacks.) His passing accuracy is spotty, but it's not much worse -- if at all -- than any other QBs that are currently on the roster in this stage of their development.

The positives of Gray at QB far outweigh the negatives on this team.
 

cjcarter8 said:
Thats fine assuming there is a QB on the Gopher's roster with the ability to take the starting QB job from Marqueis Gray. A true freshman is not that QB.
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i'm not sure how you feel that you can say that so confidentially.

adam weber was an above average big 10 qb his rs freshman year.

weber was on campus for one whole semester longer than nelson.

weber was playing basketball in the winter baseball in the spring before matriculating. nelson is playing football. in fact he was doing quite well in the semper fidelis all-american bowl in january against recruits, many of whom are going to be starting this fall.

i am not saying that nelson will be all big ten, but i am saying that it is perfectly reasonable to imagine that nelson at qb and gray at wr could make the gophers a better team.

i am not trying to shut down anyone's argument, just pointing out that the point is, actually, moot.
 

M&G BUSt said:
Good teams rarely play true freshmen. It would be a refreshing change for the gophers to be able to redshirt some of the freshmen they are high on. If Nelson turns out to be the real deal and doesn't start for 2-3 years I think that would indicate that the gophers are in a pretty good place.
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edit: too hasty. you are correct.
 

bigtenchamps1899 said:
i'm not sure how you feel that you can say that so confidentially.

adam weber was an above average big 10 qb his rs freshman year.

weber was on campus for one whole semester longer than nelson.

weber was playing basketball in the winter baseball in the spring before matriculating. nelson is playing football. in fact he was doing quite well in the semper fidelis all-american bowl in january against recruits, many of whom are going to be starting this fall.

i am not saying that nelson will be all big ten, but i am saying that it is perfectly reasonable to imagine that nelson at qb and gray at wr could make the gophers a better team.

i am not trying to shut down anyone's argument, just pointing out that the point is, actually, moot.
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+1 1899. Good post! Great thought process.
 

M&G BUSt said:
Good teams rarely play true freshmen.
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Yes, especially good teams like Michigan. And especially at quarterback (Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson played as true freshmen the same year. Granted, it was under RichRod, so maybe that doesn't count... :) )

You play the best player period. Sometimes that's a true freshman, usually it's not. I think Gray would have to implode and Nelson explode to get the job, but stranger things have happened.

Of course, playing devil's advocate, the real question is, if Nelson does legitimately beat out Gray (I believe it is VERY unlikely, but...) do you keep Gray as QB2? I think probably yes, because he's almost certainly the second best QB in that scenario, but it'd be hard not having MG on the field.

DPODOLL said:
Quote from Pat Nelson: ""But it's also tempting to throw to MarQueis (at wide receiver this year)," Pat Nelson said. "I don't know if that will ever happen. But you never know what Kill's going to do. He's going to put his best team on the field. He's not afraid to do that. It's going to be really interesting what happens. Philip has shown Kill he has the ability to play. From where that goes, who knows?"

- These two statements are contradictory. If he's going to put his best team on the field, there is no question, with 100% certainty, that the best team starts with Gray at QB. Period. End of discussion. By definition, putting Gray at WR is inherently NOT putting your best team on the field.
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Last year I wasn't so sure about this. This year I am more likely to agree. The key last year is Gray would have almost certainly been at least the second best WR. This year I expect McDonald, Harbison and Freutche to fill the WR holes as well as some of the players from last year stepping up. So where last year there was a tremendous need at WR that Gray could have helped fill, this year there should be less of a need, so he should remain at QB, even if Nelson beats him out, which again I think is HIGHLY unlikely.

As I've said elsewhere, I'd bet a good chunk of money today that Gray will start in Vegas.
 

I'm surprised this is even a discussion.

Well, no. I guess I'm not all that surprised ... the most popular player on the team is usually the backup quarterback ... but I would be willing to lay down money that, barring injury, MarQueis is the starter in Vegas. I have neither read nor heard anything so far in the offseason that would change Q's position on the depth chart.
 

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