Gophers MBB is Bad but Future is Bright

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CPTMidnight

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Not sure if this was posted previously - Eric Strack with MinnesotaSportsFan.com appears to have written up a positive take on the future of Gopher Hoops. Unfortunately it points to next year and especially the following year before we will be competitive in the Big Ten. Still, the next couple of years could be fun if you can wait that long.

Gophers MBB is Bad but Future is Bright
 


CPTMidnight said:
Not sure if this was posted previously - Eric Strack with MinnesotaSportsFan.com appears to have written up a positive take on the future of Gopher Hoops. Unfortunately it points to next year and especially the following year before we will be competitive in the Big Ten. Still, the next couple of years could be fun if you can wait that long.

Gophers MBB is Bad but Future is Bright
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I think the future could be bright. I like the young pieces and I actually think this staff runs some good sets. However, a big chunk of running a program is recruiting and roster management, staff needs a good 2024 class and they need to re tool the current roster so the pieces fit. They need to be competitive next year, I don't care who you're know staff can survive three really bad years in a row and dig themselves out. Contrary to Flecks beliefs, momentum matters and if you're bad for too long perception becomes reality
 


CPTMidnight said:
Not sure if this was posted previously - Eric Strack with MinnesotaSportsFan.com appears to have written up a positive take on the future of Gopher Hoops. Unfortunately it points to next year and especially the following year before we will be competitive in the Big Ten. Still, the next couple of years could be fun if you can wait that long.

Gophers MBB is Bad but Future is Bright
Click to expand...
Ah........could be fun?
 


That article is going pretty far out on a limb to paint a rosy picture. I have yet to see the signs why I should be optimistic, other than blind faith. Nobody can look at what CBJ and staff have done in almost 2 years on the job and point to concrete things to be optimistic about. The exception is probably Christie/Evans. Of course, if they keep being the anchor in the B1G, recruiting is going to very quickly become a very challenging uphill battle.

This squad is dead last in the country in FT %. Last in the B1G in scoring and turnovers. 12th in B1G in rebounding, FG%, 3pt%. The U has paid CBJ almost $1MM per B1G win so far, assuming he doesn’t light it up the rest of the way this year, all while having very poor attendance.

The freshman so far have not been up to the level of Oturu/Coffey as freshman, and those guys only got us solidly to middle of the pack. I want so badly for this team to at least be relevant, and I want CBJ and staff to succeed, because if he doesn’t, we’ll hire some other guy who will then get to come up with his own terrible excuses for years.

CBJ wasn’t a success at another stop, as this is his first. He is an unproven commodity that has proven absolutely nothing, and nothing yet has been done to prove otherwise. I hope he does eventually, but to suggest otherwise is just burying your head in the sand to make yourself feel better.
 
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We could be good: But, I don't see how it happens as written.
1. Fox and Ihnen earn starting roles.
2. Christie is Purdue freshman good...he scores 10 ppg
3. We somehow add another very good guard who can make free throws, set up the offense and defend the other teams point guard.
4 Battle, Garcia and Cooper return.
5. The four freshmen playing all the minutes actually develop into effective consistent bench players. Betts is happy or good.
6. Evans surprises as a freshman and is effective in his playing time.
7. TT let's us add a guard and we actually recruit a good one (3).
8. That would give us 13 guys who all think they should play. Ben wants to play 7. Many of those guys can't play together at the same time because of similar skills or lack there of.
So, ya we could be good if we keep all those guys and Ben figures out to keep them happy and how they can play together.
Without a new guard we can be better but my gosh this is a tall task...we have too many guys who can't shoot or can't run an offense or can't defend their position.
If they all stay...do the four freshmen with the minutes this year, Payne, Carrington, Ola Joseph, Henley plus Betts all sit next year?
Garcia, Battle, Cooper, Fox, Ihnen, Christie, Evans are your top 7? Right? Get a new guard and play 8?
Fox and Ihnen healthy are head shoulders better than the 5 freshmen, plus they are men.. Garcia, Battle and Cooper are our best players on this years team. Christie has to be good for us to be better. Evans has the wingspan and publicity that he has to play. Those 7 or 8 can't sit...right? Ben is not playing 10 or 13 guys. I'd rather not hope for injuries as a solution to those 5 freshmen playing. Do TT and half the 5 freshmen figure it out and transfer or patiently wait to play in the future?
 
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60's Guy said:
We could be good: But, I don't see how it happens as written.
1. Fox and Ihnen earn starting roles.
2. Christie is Purdue freshman good...he scores 10 ppg
3. We somehow add another very good guard who can make free throws, set up the offense and defend the other teams point guard.
4 Battle, Garcia and Cooper return.
5. The four freshmen playing all the minutes actually develop into effective consistent bench players. Betts is happy or good.
6. Evans surprises as a freshman and is effective in his playing time.
7. TT let's us add a guard and we actually recruit a good one (3).
8. That would give us 13 guys who all think they should play. Ben wants to play 7. Many of those guys can't play together at the same time because of similar skills or lack there of.
So, ya we could be good if we keep all those guys and Ben figures out to keep them happy and how they can play together.
Without a new guard we can be better but my gosh this is a tall task...we have too many guys who can't shoot or can't run an offense or can't defend their position.
If they all stay...do the four freshmen with the minutes this year, Payne, Carrington, Ola Joseph, Henley plus Betts all sit next year?
Garcia, Battle, Cooper, Fox, Ihnen, Christie, Evans are your top 7? Right? Get a new guard and play 8?
Fox and Ihnen healthy are head shoulders better than the 5 freshmen, plus they are men.. Garcia, Battle and Cooper are our best players on this years team. Christie has to be good for us to be better. Evans has the wingspan and publicity that he has to play. Those 7 or 8 can't sit...right? Ben is not playing 10 or 13 guys. I'd rather not hope for injuries as a solution to those 5 freshmen playing. Do TT and half the 5 freshmen figure it out and transfer or patiently wait to play in the future?
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I think will play nine next year. We've generally played 8-9 this year when healthy. Could it go down to 7-8 at the end of the year, possibly, but I could also see one of Battle or Garcia moving on or Cooper moving on for a variety of reasons. Maybe Dawson wants to get paid, Cooper doesn't like bringing another PG in. Can't see Battle being a wing next year either if we want to play winning basketball, if Garcia comes back and Fix is healthy, going to be a long jam in the front court. Also, what to make of Ihnen? Team needs a PG and a starting wing next year
 



Dupreefor3 said:
I think will play nine next year. We've generally played 8-9 this year when healthy. Could it go down to 7-8 at the end of the year, possibly, but I could also see one of Battle or Garcia moving on or Cooper moving on for a variety of reasons. Maybe Dawson wants to get paid, Cooper doesn't like bringing another PG in. Can't see Battle being a wing next year either if we want to play winning basketball, if Garcia comes back and Fix is healthy, going to be a long jam in the front court. Also, what to make of Ihnen? Team needs a PG and a starting wing next year
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I think Battle could play the 3 if he has a couple of play makers along side of him who can make shots for him. If he is playing the 4 then if is a problem for the use of the combination of Payne, Garcia, Fox, Ihnen and TT if he is here. For the Evans thing to work out, Payne needs to develop into a 4/5 combo over time.
 


Can any article talking about future players and not mentioning wingspan be taken seriously? It took 60's Guy to bring it up. Where is Bfan when you need him?

Ben seems to have an insurmountable task and the future is difficult to assess. Hard to keep the faith after blowouts.
 

Trajectory and vision is important both internally and for recruiting and probably more important than our relative status as a Power5 school. Last year trajectory was down. This year is about even with last year. Upward trend next year will be an easy story to sell and support Ben's longer term vision.

These writers are not living and dying by every game (like we are) and at least provide a little perspective. I hope they are right.
 



But
forever a gopher said:
That article is going pretty far out on a limb to paint a rosy picture. I have yet to see the signs why I should be optimistic, other than blind faith. Nobody can look at what CBJ and staff have done in almost 2 years on the job and point to concrete things to be optimistic about. The exception is probably Christie/Evans. Of course, if they keep being the anchor in the B1G, recruiting is going to very quickly become a very challenging uphill battle.

This squad is dead last in the country in FT %. Last in the B1G in scoring and turnovers. 12th in B1G in rebounding, FG%, 3pt%. The U has paid CBJ almost $1MM per B1G win so far, assuming he doesn’t light it up the rest of the way this year, all while having very poor attendance.

The freshman so far have not been up to the level of Oturu/Coffey as freshman, and those guys only got us solidly to middle of the pack. I want so badly for this team to at least be relevant, and I want CBJ and staff to succeed, because if he doesn’t, we’ll hire some other guy who will then get to come up with his own terrible excuses for years.

CBJ wasn’t a success at another stop, as this is his first. He is an unproven commodity that has proven absolutely nothing, and nothing yet has been done to prove otherwise. I hope he does eventually, but to suggest otherwise is just burying your head in the sand to make yourself feel better.
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This is a great post. Unfortunately, it is cancelled out by Dennis Evan’s wingspan!
 

CPTMidnight said:
Lets hope you guys make it that long. Would hate to see you give up just before the next Final Four. The Hole was pretty fun during the last one.
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Those that bail will come back as soon as things look good again. You can always count on that with pretty much any fanbase.

23-24 season will be a huge one for Johnson. 3 straight seasons as a cellar dweller would put him on extremely thin ice going into 24-25 assuming a change wasn't made after year 3. Need tangible signs of improvement next season to prove to everyone that things are moving in the right direction.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Those that bail will come back as soon as things look good again. You can always count on that with pretty much any fanbase.

23-24 season will be a huge one for Johnson. 3 straight seasons as a cellar dweller would put him on extremely thin ice going into 24-25 assuming a change wasn't made after year 3. Need tangible signs of improvement next season to prove to everyone that things are moving in the right direction.
Click to expand...
People firm in the CBJ "can do no wrong" camp often like to speak in hyperbole and act righteous as if it's some cause they've taken up. This is a site of die-hards. Which, last time I checked, isn't over flowing with patronage as compared to some of our rivals. But this is the group that will be there when the ship gets turned around (whether it's CBJ or some hire after). It's the common fan that is often lost, not the people on sites like this. I have been critical of CBJ, but have attend a half-dozen games this year, attended the open practice, and have watched every minute of action. I can want this coaching staff and program to succeed and talk realistically at the same time. Just because you're a fan doesn't mean you have to pretend things are better than they are.

Attendance at Williams/Mariucci/Huntington took a hit after the scholarship seating fiasco. Huntington has largely come back due to the team's performance. Mariucci is still clawing it's way back. The combination of scholarship seating and move to the B1G was a bit of a perfect storm. I was at the game on Saturday, and it was a full house and once again a great place to be. The hockey team has been good to excellent for the majority of Motzko's tenure, but attendance has been slow to recover. It's not nearly as easy to get fans back as some allude. There very much is a cautionary tale for the basketball team in there somewhere.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Those that bail will come back as soon as things look good again. You can always count on that with pretty much any fanbase.

23-24 season will be a huge one for Johnson. 3 straight seasons as a cellar dweller would put him on extremely thin ice going into 24-25 assuming a change wasn't made after year 3. Need tangible signs of improvement next season to prove to everyone that things are moving in the right direction.
Click to expand...

For a good trajectory I think we need:

3-4 wins yet this year
Players to remain (they will)
Solid point guard portal addition to compete for the starting spot
Everyone to remain healthy
Evans and Christie to have an immediate impact
Freshmen to get a huge sophomore jump in skills/confidence
8-10 wins next year
Trajectory and Vision attracts an Asuma or other high level talent.
This will lead to following year having high expectations - and rightfully so.

Tall order? Yes. Easy to poke holes? Yes.
Gentleman, this is probably the only path to have fun with Gopher basketball in the next 5 years.
 

CPTMidnight said:
For a good trajectory I think we need:

3-4 wins yet this year
Players to remain (they will)
Solid point guard portal addition to compete for the starting spot
Everyone to remain healthy
Evans and Christie to have an immediate impact
Freshmen to get a huge sophomore jump in skills/confidence
8-10 wins next year
Trajectory and Vision attracts an Asuma or other high level talent.
This will lead to following year having high expectations - and rightfully so.
Click to expand...
This is spot on.

The point guard has to be better than solid though. Needs to be speedy with the ability to help the team get up court quickly and score off the break, set up shooters like Battle by breaking the defense down and then defend the opposing PG, preventing the easy penetration we see today from opposing teams.
 

CPTMidnight said:
For a good trajectory I think we need:

3-4 wins yet this year
Players to remain (they will)
Solid point guard portal addition to compete for the starting spot
Everyone to remain healthy
Evans and Christie to have an immediate impact
Freshmen to get a huge sophomore jump in skills/confidence
8-10 wins next year
Trajectory and Vision attracts an Asuma or other high level talent.
This will lead to following year having high expectations - and rightfully so.

Tall order? Yes. Easy to poke holes? Yes.
Gentleman, this is probably the only path to have fun with Gopher basketball in the next 5 years.
Click to expand...
We ran into this quite a bit with Pitino where people would defend the poor results because of health. Barring an incredibly unlucky run of injuries, I don't think we can use this as an excuse. By year 3, we should start building depth and be able to withstand a reasonable number of injuries. They will happen.
 

Well I can agree the future is brighter than now but based on the current roster and incoming recruits, we aren’t a tourney team next year. Maybe another guard changes that but so far he isn’t coming so brace yourselves next year.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
We ran into this quite a bit with Pitino where people would defend the poor results because of health. Barring an incredibly unlucky run of injuries, I don't think we can use this as an excuse. By year 3, we should start building depth and be able to withstand a reasonable number of injuries. They will happen.
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You are correct. Please don't take the list as reasons for excuses. I'm just saying that this is what a reasonably good trajectory would look like if a guy were to be optimistic - as with any WAG the reality will either be better or worse.

The trajectory looks worse if a couple of key people get injured and we don't win 8-10 next year and excuses start getting made.
 

CentralGopher said:
Well I can agree the future is brighter than now but based on the current roster and incoming recruits, we aren’t a tourney team next year. Maybe another guard changes that but so far he isn’t coming so brace yourselves next year.
Click to expand...
The future is brighter now?
 

CPTMidnight said:
You are correct. Please don't take the list as reasons for excuses. I'm just saying that this is what a reasonably good trajectory would look like if a guy were to be optimistic - as with any WAG the reality will either be better or worse.

The trajectory looks worse if a couple of key people get injured and we don't win 8-10 next year and excuses start getting made.
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No, I know you're not. I agree with your list and we're on the same page with what a positive trajectory looks like.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
We ran into this quite a bit with Pitino where people would defend the poor results because of health. Barring an incredibly unlucky run of injuries, I don't think we can use this as an excuse. By year 3, we should start building depth and be able to withstand a reasonable number of injuries. They will happen.
Click to expand...
If everyone had remained healthy under Pitino- there is little doubt that he would still be the coach today. In the end, the coach is held responsible for the record, regardless of injuries or other bad luck.
 

Has Gopher men’s basketball cornered the market on ACL knee injuries? 🤔. Maybe a more accomplished trainer should also be on our wish list.
 

60's Guy said:
We could be good: But, I don't see how it happens as written.
1. Fox and Ihnen earn starting roles.
2. Christie is Purdue freshman good...he scores 10 ppg
3. We somehow add another very good guard who can make free throws, set up the offense and defend the other teams point guard.
4 Battle, Garcia and Cooper return.
5. The four freshmen playing all the minutes actually develop into effective consistent bench players. Betts is happy or good.
6. Evans surprises as a freshman and is effective in his playing time.
7. TT let's us add a guard and we actually recruit a good one (3).
8. That would give us 13 guys who all think they should play. Ben wants to play 7. Many of those guys can't play together at the same time because of similar skills or lack there of.
So, ya we could be good if we keep all those guys and Ben figures out to keep them happy and how they can play together.
Without a new guard we can be better but my gosh this is a tall task...we have too many guys who can't shoot or can't run an offense or can't defend their position.
If they all stay...do the four freshmen with the minutes this year, Payne, Carrington, Ola Joseph, Henley plus Betts all sit next year?
Garcia, Battle, Cooper, Fox, Ihnen, Christie, Evans are your top 7? Right? Get a new guard and play 8?
Fox and Ihnen healthy are head shoulders better than the 5 freshmen, plus they are men.. Garcia, Battle and Cooper are our best players on this years team. Christie has to be good for us to be better. Evans has the wingspan and publicity that he has to play. Those 7 or 8 can't sit...right? Ben is not playing 10 or 13 guys. I'd rather not hope for injuries as a solution to those 5 freshmen playing. Do TT and half the 5 freshmen figure it out and transfer or patiently wait to play in the future?
Click to expand...
Good post, agree with most. I have watched some Christie games, he is going to need a year. Potential is there, but strength wise he needs a year. He is not a speed guy so he is going to need some physical development for B1G guard play. He's also going to need some time to improve his D, he won't be elite or even good on D his first year. I am concerned that because of the dearth of guards on the team, that a lot of weight is going to be put on his shoulders, and he is not ready for that yet.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
Good post, agree with most. I have watched some Christie games, he is going to need a year. Potential is there, but strength wise he needs a year. He is not a speed guy so he is going to need some physical development for B1G guard play. He's also going to need some time to improve his D, he won't be elite or even good on D his first year. I am concerned that because of the dearth of guards on the team, that a lot of weight is going to be put on his shoulders, and he is not ready for that yet.
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Ben sees him as a PG. I have only seen film of him. If he isn't speedy, that's not good.
 

Lol!

The future is bright and starts with Fox and Ihnen starting? You can’t actually be serious.

Stating that Cooper, Garcia and Battle are our best players, you actually think a guy who played at Augustana college in SD at 6’8” with multiple ACL tears and an unproven 5th year Junior which multiple ACLs should start instead of a 7’ 5* recruit and a Mr Illinois Basketball finalist or one of the four freshman who have performed better than Ihnen in their inaugural seasons!

It’s such a bad take I’m rambling!

Ihnen and Fox would do the best for the teams future by going away and letting the other players develop.

Oh, and you still need a pg who can guard quick penetration type guards.
 

Honestly, I could see up to three of the current guys leave the team before next year. This team could look a whole lot different yet again.
 

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