GOPHERS HIRING BEN JOHNSON

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Flipper1a said:
Getting Thorson back on staff would eliminate that issue (HC experience). Thorson can recruit locally better than most. I don't remember too many poor DeLaSalle teams either. Even his lesser talented teams were good. Don't know too much who else on Pitino's staff is worthy of keeping.

Someone mentioned maybe getting Saul Phillips as an Asst. (Former NDSU and Ohio University coach---currently at Northern State) or Tim Miles. Many options to fortify that supposed lack of HC experience.
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I'm not following this line of thinking with Thorson. Isn't the main reason Johnson was hired because they think he will be a strong in state recruiter? Why then would your top target for top assistant's best asset also be a strong in state recruiter? Seems redundant.
 





I'd target Kyle Green as an assistant to try and get AJ to come with him. If he can keep Robbins, bring Garcia and Battle home, we could have a Green-Kalscheur-Battle-Garcia-Robbins starting 5. That could go a loooooong way to showing immediate success to take the heat off of him early.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The top dogs aren't going to come now because we aren't very good.
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Don't just have to be good ... have to be good enough to overcome the fact that those kids have a golden ticket to go anywhere in the country that they want, away from where they grew up in cold, isolated Minnesota.

Doesn't matter how smooth of a salesman you are. It's why Tim Brewster failed, why that guy from Texas A&M who was supposed to be some savant at recruiting Texas failed at Kansas (football), etc. Will be many more cases like that, where a lower end school tries to win by hiring a recruiting guru with no head experience and hoping he can figure it out on the fly.
 

howeda7 said:
Believe it.
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How about this -- I made this up from my rear one, on the spot right now:

Smith says to Coyle something like "look, my family and I really like it out here and we want to stay in Utah. UU's AD says they can do 2.3 and I'm gonna take that .... unless you can make me an offer I can't refuse."

Coyle says "sorry, I'm capped at 2 for this hire ...". And that was that.
 




When we hired Pitino we were upset we didn't get Shaka....

Shaka 109-86 at Texas
Pitino 141-123 at MN

Were they the 2 best for the job (hind sight 20/20)?
 


GopherBlood666 said:
Well known pitino sr did not approve, IW also didnt last long with iona once he took over. Im guessing IW would not have transferred if pitino sr liked his game.
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?? So you are guessing? Prob more skill than the original recruitment. Same applied here. There are busts (like IW was) doesn't mean that Ben did or didn't agree.
 



Flipper1a said:
?? So you are guessing? Prob more skill than the original recruitment. Same applied here. There are busts (like IW was) doesn't mean that Ben did or didn't agree.
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Pitino sr openly said he did not like IW as a player. When Pitino sr got to iona, iw left shortly thereafter. You said richard listened to his dad more than his assistants. I pointed out a situation where that clearly wasn't true. Johnson did not recruit iw, young did. Anything else to add?
 

CurveballJesus said:
I'm not following this line of thinking with Thorson. Isn't the main reason Johnson was hired because they think he will be a strong in state recruiter? Why then would your top target for top assistant's best asset also be a strong in state recruiter? Seems redundant.
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Thorson can coach basketball.
 

BarnBurner said:
Who cares?

I do.

Might it work out? Sure. Might Ben become the second coming of Mark Few? Absolutely.

The likelihood of success in hiring someone without HC experience is low, imho.
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What's the success rate in hiring someone with experience?
Since 2000
Minnesota: 3 hires all with prior experience and minimal success here
Iowa: 3 hires with prior HC experience 1 with success if you think Fran is doing a great job.
Illinois: 3 of 4 as Self, Weber and now Underwood have done well and had prior HC experience
Nebraska: 0 for their last 3 and possibly 4 depending on if Fred can turn them around. All with prior HC experience
Purdue: 1 for 1 with Painter being a long time asst. with 1 year as a HC prior
Michigan: 4 hires 2 with success Beilin had HC experience Howard did not
MSU: 1 for 1 with Izzo being a first time HC hire at the time.
Indiana: 4 hires Davis had no HC experience and did get them to the finals and Ralphs dad having a great win %, but he was a cheater. The other two had prior HC experience. Of note I didn't include Dink Dakich as he only coached part of a season.
Ohio State: 1 or 2 for 3 depending on how you view what Holtmann has done. All of them had prior HC experience
Northwestern: 0 for 2 Carmody had HC experience Collins did not
Penn State: 0 for 3 all had prior HC experience
Rutgers: 5 hires 2 with no HC experience that flamed out and 3 with experience with Pikiell being a success.
Wisconsin: 3 hires with Bennett and Ryan having prior HC and doing well. Gard had no prior HC and has done well for the most part

So, If you include Painter in the prior HC experience then 11 of 33 hires since 2000 have had success in the BIG. Then there are 7 hires with no prior HC experience and 3 of them have done well in the BIG. Smaller sample size on the new hires, but even so the success rate is better. With Painter only having 1 year, I would almost include him in the new HC group which changes the numbers to 10 of 32 and 4 of 8 successful coaches.
Of note I put K. Sampson in the not successful since he was run out of Indiana for cheating his way to his record.
 

howeda7 said:
I guess he nailed the "tell me everything Pitino did wrong" question.
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My argument in favor of the hire. Love that Ben saw front row what not to do. Ben is far brighter, not entitled and no cronies needed to pump him up. Ben learned what too do from a master teacher and what not to do from his D1 experiences. Coyle got his guy. There is no reason not to believe everything Ben said to Coyle. He is a clear thinker and authentic. This will not be about wins and losses in the beginning, this will be about character and culture. It does not matter to me who did not want the job , to Ben this is the best job.
 

MplsGopher said:
How about this -- I made this up from my rear one, on the spot right now:

Smith says to Coyle something like "look, my family and I really like it out here and we want to stay in Utah. UU's AD says they can do 2.3 and I'm gonna take that .... unless you can make me an offer I can't refuse."

Coyle says "sorry, I'm capped at 2 for this hire ...". And that was that.
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Nope, not what happened at all. About the opposite.
 

builtbadgers said:
My argument in favor of the hire. Love that Ben saw front row what not to do. Ben is far brighter, not entitled and no cronies needed to pump him up. Ben learned what too do from a master teacher and what not to do from his D1 experiences. Coyle got his guy. There is no reason not to believe everything Ben said to Coyle. He is a clear thinker and authentic. This will not be about wins and losses in the beginning, this will be about character and culture. It does not matter to me who did not want the job , to Ben this is the best job.
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What "master teacher" did Ben learn from? Miles?
 

MplsGopher said:
How about this -- I made this up from my rear one, on the spot right now:

Smith says to Coyle something like "look, my family and I really like it out here and we want to stay in Utah. UU's AD says they can do 2.3 and I'm gonna take that .... unless you can make me an offer I can't refuse."

Coyle says "sorry, I'm capped at 2 for this hire ...". And that was that.
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Didn't happen.
 

MplsGopher said:
Convince me that it isn't the case that the only reason he came to Minnesota is that his dad played for Rick.
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I don't have to convince you of anything. I was listing possible events that would make me more impressed with the hire. That is one regardless if you think it'll happen or not.
 

Plato said:
And what is your source for that certainty?
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Smith interviewed for the job. Indications are he absolutely wanted it and would have taken it. He was not offered it. Not sure Medved was even interviewed, but I'd be very surprised if he'd have turned it down.
 

Some guy said:
I disagree with what you just said.
Smith or Medved would require either more money and/or a longer contract than Johnson.

both of those things would increase year 3 buyout

Smith is currently guaranteed a little over 5 and you think he would agree to a contract at a job that is more likely to get him fired for 1.9 a year where he could be let go for 1.5 after 3 years? You’re dreaming.

why would anyone take a job at a place more likely to get you fired for a marginal pay raise?
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5 year contract is pretty standard. I doubt Smith or Medved would have gotten more than $2.5 at the most. Johnson's contract is not much of a discount over what anyone else would have cost and neither will his buyout.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
For everyone you mentioned there are hundreds of others no one will ever hear of. As some have said, this hire may be the equivalent of buying a lotto ticket and hoping for the win.
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That's exactly what it is. We would prefer not to have bought a lotto ticket. But we all hope it's a winner.
 

howeda7 said:
5 year contract is pretty standard. I doubt Smith or Medved would have gotten more than $2.5 at the most. Johnson's contract is not much of a discount over what anyone else would have cost and neither will his buyout.
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Even if it is 2.5, that’s a 20% difference. I guess you don’t see 20% as significant
 

Holy Man said:
Ben or whoever is pulling the strings has to decide if he can coach. It surely would not be worth it for one quality player for one season which is likely to be a disaster with or without him.
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I don't think Conroy's ability to coach is in question.
 


Flipper1a said:
The last three "big time" Coaches we hired were Tubby, Monson, and Clem....in a sense all three got us into the tourney but were somewhat dissapointments.

Out of all the ones mentioned....Musselman might be the only one in that class.
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Clem wasn't a big time hire. He was the coach at Western Kentucky, which is roughly on the same level of Utah State and Colorado State. And Gonzaga wasn't even at that level in 1999.
 

CurveballJesus said:
I'm not following this line of thinking with Thorson. Isn't the main reason Johnson was hired because they think he will be a strong in state recruiter? Why then would your top target for top assistant's best asset also be a strong in state recruiter? Seems redundant.
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Not sure it's redundant. Also, it seems like Thorson does a lot of the X's and O's for Niko.
 

NDGopher69420 said:
The point is that if you're hiring someone based on how easy it is to fire them in a few years, you should be fired right now for even considering that in your hiring.
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I’m not saying that’s why they hired him.
I am saying he is going to be easier to fire though. That’s me. That’s not Coyle
 

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