GOPHERS HIRING BEN JOHNSON

The post year 3 buyout will probably be about $1.5 for Ben. It would have been $1.5—2 for Smith or Medved.
I disagree with what you just said.
Smith or Medved would require either more money and/or a longer contract than Johnson.

both of those things would increase year 3 buyout

Smith is currently guaranteed a little over 5 and you think he would agree to a contract at a job that is more likely to get him fired for 1.9 a year where he could be let go for 1.5 after 3 years? You’re dreaming.

why would anyone take a job at a place more likely to get you fired for a marginal pay raise?
 

Look at the bright side everyone. We shouldn’t have to start a new thread about him bolting to another job if he has success here.
 


What other school had Ben Johnson as a candidate?
Who cares. What other school had Izzo on their radar prior to him taking the MSU job. Matt Painter at Purdue?
What other team wanted Adam Thielen?
How many big time programs wanted Jordan Murphy?
Just because others didn't want him doesn't mean he can't be a great coach.
As I said earlier in this thread, the last three coaches hired here all had prior HC experience and none of them got us to where we want to be. Why not try a different approach. All the others mentioned had question marks as well.
 
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That is far less than PJ is making and not what the most desirable coaching candidates expect from a BIG school.
Football has a much larger budget, of course he is making less than pj who at least has a top 10 finish for a season as well. If you win and the program earns revenue then you will get paid more.
 


Who cares. What other school had Izzo on their radar prior to him taking the MSU job. Matt Painter at Purdue?
What other team wanted Adam Thielen?
How many big time programs wanted Jordan Murphy?
Just because others didn't want him doesn't mean he can't be a great coach.
As I said earlier in this thread, the last three coaches hired here all had prior HC experience and non of them got us to where we want to be. Why not try a different approach. All the others mentioned had question marks as well.
For everyone you mentioned there are hundreds of others no one will ever hear of. As some have said, this hire may be the equivalent of buying a lotto ticket and hoping for the win.
 

(1) That is the scary point. I don't want people outside of the athletic department being part of the process.
(2) I don't buy this.
(3) Sure. It happens all the time.
(4) This is kind of a scary premise depending upon the extent they were consulted. I really hope the AAU circuit didn't get to pick our next coach.
(5) The first half of this statement doesn't agree with the second half of this statement. If diversity is highly valued, why would it have nothing to do with the decision? This is the lie the diversity-based-hiring types try to sell. They want diversity to be part of the hiring process but they also indignant when anyone brings it up. Of course diversity played a role in the hiring. It played a role because, as they say, it's highly-valued to them.

I agree with your last sentence. I'll stand by Ben and cheer him on. Part of that means accepting the truth with how he was hired and getting over it or celebrating it (some people like the diversity, local, anecdotal angle). None of that will prevent me from cheering for Ben and supporting him and the Gophers.


I agree with your last sentence. I'll stand by Ben and cheer him on. Part of that means accepting the truth with how he was hired and getting over it or celebrating it (some people like the diversity, local, anecdotal angle). None of that will prevent me from cheering for Ben and supporting him and the Gophers.
(1) That is the scary point. I don't want people outside of the athletic department being part of the process.

(I have zero info on who else was involved. Despite influence from others, the result of this hire will fall squarely on Coyle’s shoulders.)

(2) I don't buy this.

(I didn’t ask you to buy it…just passing on some info. Football and Men’s Basketball has almost universal support throughout the University with the understanding they endow the other non-revenue generating teams at the U. It doesn’t mean they were prepared to pay a coach $5-6M per year but they never financially hamstrung themselves during the process.)

(3) Sure. It happens all the time.

(Ben was always on their radar but wasn’t their #1 choice nor do I know who that was.)

(4) This is kind of a scary premise depending upon the extent they were consulted. I really hope the AAU circuit didn't get to pick our next coach.

(The AAU circuit is complete filth IMO and I have no idea if they were “consulted”. I do know that numerous HS coaches were contacted but it had nothing to do about their opinion on Johnson but rather what would make the program more attractive to HS prospects.)

(5) The first half of this statement doesn't agree with the second half of this statement. If diversity is highly valued, why would it have nothing to do with the decision? This is the lie the diversity-based-hiring types try to sell. They want diversity to be part of the hiring process but they also indignant when anyone brings it up. Of course diversity played a role in the hiring. It played a role because, as they say, it's highly-valued to them.

(Bob...you have every right to believe what you perceive happened during the process and what the determining factors were. I enjoy your posts even if I don't always agree with your takes. My source is tight, intimately involved, a close friend for over 20 years and was actually more intrigued by another candidate. Diversity candidates were always a requirement for interviews but the color of skin had nothing to do with the final decision. At the end of the day, they felt Ben was the best selection (right or wrong) and if he happened to be Caucasian, Asian or Martian, he was still getting the offer.)
 

(1) That is the scary point. I don't want people outside of the athletic department being part of the process.

(I have zero info on who else was involved. Despite influence from others, the result of this hire will fall squarely on Coyle’s shoulders.)

(2) I don't buy this.

(I didn’t ask you to buy it…just passing on some info. Football and Men’s Basketball has almost universal support throughout the University with the understanding they endow the other non-revenue generating teams at the U. It doesn’t mean they were prepared to pay a coach $5-6M per year but they never financially hamstrung themselves during the process.)

(3) Sure. It happens all the time.

(Ben was always on their radar but wasn’t their #1 choice nor do I know who that was.)

(4) This is kind of a scary premise depending upon the extent they were consulted. I really hope the AAU circuit didn't get to pick our next coach.

(The AAU circuit is complete filth IMO and I have no idea if they were “consulted”. I do know that numerous HS coaches were contacted but it had nothing to do about their opinion on Johnson but rather what would make the program more attractive to HS prospects.)

(5) The first half of this statement doesn't agree with the second half of this statement. If diversity is highly valued, why would it have nothing to do with the decision? This is the lie the diversity-based-hiring types try to sell. They want diversity to be part of the hiring process but they also indignant when anyone brings it up. Of course diversity played a role in the hiring. It played a role because, as they say, it's highly-valued to them.

(Bob...you have every right to believe what you perceive happened during the process and what the determining factors were. I enjoy your posts even if I don't always agree with your takes. My source is tight, intimately involved, a close friend for over 20 years and was actually more intrigued by another candidate. Diversity candidates were always a requirement for interviews but the color of skin had nothing to do with the final decision. At the end of the day, they felt Ben was the best selection (right or wrong) and if he happened to be Caucasian, Asian or Martian, he was still getting the offer.)
Slim - none of my pokes were directed at you. I know you were still passing along the information that you received and I have no doubt that people in the know actually think that way. I've been part of hiring processes where a budget was a factor and at the end of it we have someone used mental gymnastics to talk ourselves into believing that budget wasn't a factor (the same with diversity).

I think budget and diversity played a part of this hiring process. Frankly, it would be scarier for me if they didn't. That said, I have no doubt that you're sources were told (or genuinely believe) that they weren't a factor.

At the end of the day, I'm with you. I'll cheer for the Gophers. I won't be any harder on Ben than I was on Pitino. I like Ben Johnson. I played basketball against him growing up and I cheered for him throughout his career.

Part of me is excited to go the provincial route and see what happens.
 

Who cares. What other school had Izzo on their radar prior to him taking the MSU job. Matt Painter at Purdue?
What other team wanted Adam Thielen?
How many big time programs wanted Jordan Murphy?
Just because others didn't want him doesn't mean he can't be a great coach.
As I said earlier in this thread, the last three coaches hired here all had prior HC experience and non of them got us to where we want to be. Why not try a different approach. All the others mentioned had question marks as well.
Who cares?

I do.

Might it work out? Sure. Might Ben become the second coming of Mark Few? Absolutely.

The likelihood of success in hiring someone without HC experience is low, imho.
 



Found this article about Ben Johnson leaving Pitino back in '18. Doubt that Coyle will address how he felt about it but it would be nice to know.


One assistant officially in, one assistant officially out for Gophers men's basketball coach Richard Pitino on Tuesday. And that busy day comes one week after the first assistant coach departure.

Tuesday's turnover: Ben Johnson, one of Pitino's top assistants, left to take a similar job with Xavier, a No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament last month. A few hours earlier, Pitino officially announced the hiring of former Wisconsin-Milwaukee coach Rob Jeter as a new Gophers assistant..

Johnson, who joins new coach Travis Steele at Xavier, is a former DeLaSalle star who helped Pitino recruit Minnesota high school talent, including the 2018 class of Daniel Oturu, Jarvis Omersa and Gabe Kalscheur. Young also was a strong recruiter, credited with landing freshman guard Isaiah Washington out of New York City.

Young and Johnson were part of Pitino's original staff when he was hired as Minnesota's coach in 2013. In the spring of 2016, Pitino hired former Tulane head coach Ed Conroy — and Conroy now is the longest tenured assistant.

Johnson, a two-time Gophers captain after transferring from Northwestern, began his coaching career as a grad assistant at Dayton in 2005 before making stops at Northern Iowa and Nebraska..

 

Plenty of posters in this thread have been saying Xavier had terrible recruiting classes since Ben Johnson went there. . We now know they don't know what the hell the were talking about.

Ben Johnson's basketball addiction helped land him a coaching job at Xavier University

It’s a Thursday morning in late August 2018, and the television hanging on the wall of Ben Johnson’s office inside Xavier University’s Cintas Center is displaying a grainy, unfocused basketball game. It's Game 4 of the 2000 NBA Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Indiana Pacers. When asked about it, Johnson matter-of-factly replies, “You never know when you’re gonna see something.”

Ben Johnson, the second assistant coach that Xavier head coach Travis Steele hired to his staff, is a basketball addict. It’s an addiction without downside. Dave Thorson laughs when he hears that Johnson was watching an 18-year-old basketball game. Thorson, who's now an assistant coach at Colorado State, coached Johnson at DeLaSalle High School in Minneapolis.

"He's always been such a student of the game," Thorson told The Enquirer. "He was a great player but he wasn't a guy that had NBA athletic talent, he was a great player because he understood the game and he understood what needed to be done in certain situations. I think that's made him an even better coach. "Ironically, I told his dad when he was a senior in high school, I said, 'Someday, I'll probably work for Ben.' It wouldn't shock me at all if that happened."

High school was where Johnson realized that someday he wanted to get into coaching. He who played college basketball at the University of Minnesota. "There were a couple other things I explored but then I was given an opportunity with a guy named Brian Gregory, who recruited me out of high school and was the coach at Dayton."

Xavier head coach Travis Steele said putting a coaching staff together is a lot like fitting together the pieces of a puzzle. So, after Steele hired Jonas Hayes, his focus turned to the next piece. "The first conversation I had with Ben was right after I met with Jonas," said Steele. "I was in the airport ... that was the first time I'd talked to Ben.

My brother was the head coach at Illinois so he knew Ben really well and so did his assistant coaches." Steele's brother, John Groce, advised him to take a look at Ben. "I said, 'That's a good one, that's a good name.' In the back of my mind, I'm thinking, 'He's from Minneapolis, played at Minnesota, has been coaching at Minnesota the last five years. Probably not likely, I don't know if I'll be able to get him, but it's worth a shot.'

"I got him on the phone and I thought we really hit it off right away, we kind of think the same way and I could tell his personality was a little different than Jonas' – in a good way – he's a little bit more calculated. "You could tell right away he's got a basketball mind, which I was excited about."

Steele talked to college coaches, high school coaches, AAU coaches, and he even reached out to former Xavier standout JP Macura, who's from Minnesota. "JP said, 'Man, he's really good,' JP's mom and dad both loved him," Steele said. "He's another guy, he's been coaching a long time and I've never heard a bad word about him."

On top of that, Johnson has recruited a lot of the Midwest, which complements Hayes' recruiting foothold in the Southeast. Steele and Johnson connected so well over the phone, Steele said, "I never interviewed him in person. We have a lot of mutual friends and they all said he would be a home run."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...im-coaching-job-xavier-university/1097156002/
I hope Ben does bring Thorson on. He us great scout and good at diagnosing opponents weakest links. I don't think Ben needs a mentor, but it doesn't hurt to surround yourself with great people.
 

Some of the greatest accomplishments in life are the result of some of the greatest risks ever taken. It can also bring great failure. Smith? Gates? Medved? If that was the best we had to choose from, I'm all for rolling the dice on Ben Johnson. Without going into detail, I know for a fact:

1.) Many at the U were involved in the search, not just Coyle
2.) There were no budget restraints on the hiring
3.) A "couple" top-tier candidates declined an interview
4.) Many in the local basketball community were "consulted"
5.) Diversity candidates were highly valued for a variety of reasons but had NOTHING to do with the final decision on who to offer

Jobs are on the line with this hire and that premise was not lost on the people involved. I will continue to support the U through attendance and donations as I always have. When the general disappointment from the fan base dissipates, we need to stand behind Ben and give him the support and encouragement that he deserves as our Coach. The rest will be up to Ben. Go Gophers!
Thanks Slim.

With respect to #1, frankly that is what I worry about. Coyle is the AD and he should be making these decisions. Perhaps he did, although historical evidence and your comments suggest otherwise. Who, other than Coyle, is qualified to make a decisions such as this one? And I am not sure what "many" is, but that scares me as well. Coyle is paid handsomely to hire - he should hire.

#4 - poor form, imo. For all the talk about making great inroads in recruiting due to hiring Johnson, kids are still kids, the "handlers" are still there, and steering them to MN will continue to be a struggle. Consulting the BB community is a slippery slope.

I feel certain most fans will ultimately get behind the hire. I will. I just feel this is an opportunity lost. Results will tell us if a good decision was made.
 

(The AAU circuit is complete filth IMO and I have no idea if they were “consulted”. I do know that numerous HS coaches were contacted but it had nothing to do about their opinion on Johnson but rather what would make the program more attractive to HS prospects.)
The AAU circuit is complete filth. And it basically controls basketball at the pre-college level. Either you want to play the game, dirty and scummy as it is, and have the chance to compete, or you don't care about winning. Simple as that. This isn't nursery school.
 



Slim - none of my pokes were directed at you. I know you were still passing along the information that you received and I have no doubt that people in the know actually think that way. I've been part of hiring processes where a budget was a factor and at the end of it we have someone used mental gymnastics to talk ourselves into believing that budget wasn't a factor (the same with diversity).

I think budget and diversity played a part of this hiring process. Frankly, it would be scarier for me if they didn't. That said, I have no doubt that you're sources were told (or genuinely believe) that they weren't a factor.

At the end of the day, I'm with you. I'll cheer for the Gophers. I won't be any harder on Ben than I was on Pitino. I like Ben Johnson. I played basketball against him growing up and I cheered for him throughout his career.

Part of me is excited to go the provincial route and see what happens.
I think we both can agree that diversity and budget always play a role in the hiring process at a major University. From the info I received, they were not the determining factors in who was hired. At the end of the day, we all pine for a more successful program and we can both hope that the right decision was made. Hell....I wanted Jay Wright, Tony Bennett or Brad Stevens. :)
 

I wonder if conroy hanging on now for 1 more year
Ben or whoever is pulling the strings has to decide if he can coach. It surely would not be worth it for one quality player for one season which is likely to be a disaster with or without him.
 

The AAU circuit is complete filth. And it basically controls basketball at the pre-college level. Either you want to play the game, dirty and scummy as it is, and have the chance to compete, or you don't care about winning. Simple as that. This isn't nursery school.
And MN "consulted" the "BB community"...........
 

Does that matter to you right now? How about you just watch and see. Zero Big Ten Road wins with a talented roster isn't much of bar to raise.
It matters to me. Tell us what you like about his schematic and other approaches to basketball coaching.
 

Assistant Ryan Saunders coming up
I still have 17 more pages to catch up on in this thread, so maybe a larger discussion on Ryan and other assistants awaits. But I'll say this:

I'm really disappointed in this hire for all the same reasons everyone else has given. I hope Ben does great and he's here for 20 years. I didn't want Ryan Saunders as coach, either. But if we're doing this, let's do it. If they want to pair Ryan along with Ben and brand this as young, up-and-coming Minnesota alums with Minnesota connections who will recruit the hell out of Minnesota (and hopefully other places), let's go all in. If that's Coyle's master plan, take it all the way.
 

Ben or whoever is pulling the strings has to decide if he can coach. It surely would not be worth it for one quality player for one season which is likely to be a disaster with or without him.
For sure. You don’t hire a guy you don’t trust for one year of a third team all big ten type player
 

Who cares?

I do.

Might it work out? Sure. Might Ben become the second coming of Mark Few? Absolutely.

The likelihood of success in hiring someone without HC experience is low, imho.
Getting Thorson back on staff would eliminate that issue (HC experience). Thorson can recruit locally better than most. I don't remember too many poor DeLaSalle teams either. Even his lesser talented teams were good. Don't know too much who else on Pitino's staff is worthy of keeping.

Someone mentioned maybe getting Saul Phillips as an Asst. (Former NDSU and Ohio University coach---currently at Northern State) or Tim Miles. Many options to fortify that supposed lack of HC experience.
 
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Getting Thorson back on staff would eliminate that issue (HC experience). Thorson can recruit locally better than most. I don't remember too many poor DeLaSalle teams either. Even his lesser talented teams were good. Don't know too much who else on Pitino's staff is worthy of keeping.

Someone mentioned maybe getting Saul Phillips as an Asst. (Former NDSU and Ohio University coach---currently at Northern State) or Tim Miles. Many options to fortify that lack of experience.
Why didnt more local kids end up at CSU, if that is the case?
 

Thanks Slim.

With respect to #1, frankly that is what I worry about. Coyle is the AD and he should be making these decisions. Perhaps he did, although historical evidence and your comments suggest otherwise. Who, other than Coyle, is qualified to make a decisions such as this one? And I am not sure what "many" is, but that scares me as well. Coyle is paid handsomely to hire - he should hire.

#4 - poor form, imo. For all the talk about making great inroads in recruiting due to hiring Johnson, kids are still kids, the "handlers" are still there, and steering them to MN will continue to be a struggle. Consulting the BB community is a slippery slope.

I feel certain most fans will ultimately get behind the hire. I will. I just feel this is an opportunity lost. Results will tell us if a good decision was made.
"Coyle is paid handsomely to hire - he should hire."

Agree on both points, BB...especially the one above. It's tough to have accountability for the quality of the soup when tons of people are adding ingredients. I'm okay reaching out to the local hoops community if the intent is to improve the appeal of the program but in no way should they have any input when it comes to coaching hires.
 

People already debating which coach better due to 3rd year buyout being cheaper. This is why there is frustration.
This epitomizes and explains why this institution and its fans are such losers. A clear-headed institution makes simple, commonsense decisions that lead to success. We twist ourselves into knots to make 4D chess decisions that are so esoteric as to be non-understandable. But brilliant!
 


Who cares. What other school had Izzo on their radar prior to him taking the MSU job. Matt Painter at Purdue?
What other team wanted Adam Thielen?
How many big time programs wanted Jordan Murphy?
Just because others didn't want him doesn't mean he can't be a great coach.
As I said earlier in this thread, the last three coaches hired here all had prior HC experience and non of them got us to where we want to be. Why not try a different approach. All the others mentioned had question marks as well.

I can't speak for Izzo, but Matt Painter was a hot commodity. It's why Purdue paid him a lot of money to be a coach-in-waiting during Keady's last year. They were so worried about him being snatched up that they locked him into a 6 year deal (HC money) because they knew they'd lose him if they had to wait another season.

Theilen? We didn't even want him. We didn't draft him. We bring in a ton of local guys as FAs, the overwhelming vast majority don't pan out.

As far as Murphy? Baylor, Marquette, Maryland, Texas, Oklahoma, UNLV.

I think we should have hired someone who has never even heard of basketball. I've been a Gopher and Wolves fan my whole life. All of the coaches that both of them have hired had like played or coached basketball before, I think it's time they try something new and hire someone who has never even heard of it before.
 

I’m not defending the hire. The hire sucks. Craig smith would be better. But he isn’t a very impressive get either
This just means that for you and those like you who have some set of "impressive" hires relative to Craig Smith: those are all guys that we could never get, at this time. They either have no interest in coming here, in of itself, and/or they have their sights set on bigger fish.
 

I think we both can agree that diversity and budget always play a role in the hiring process at a major University. From the info I received, they were not the determining factors in who was hired. At the end of the day, we all pine for a more successful program and we can both hope that the right decision was made. Hell....I wanted Jay Wright, Tony Bennett or Brad Stevens. :)
Of course they will never say that they were factors in the end- but they were.

Today is optimism day! We need to get on board with Ben and hope for the best. He can do this!
I'm all in. He's a class act who is loved by the basketball circle in this town and that is a good start. Ben has a huge 6-7 months ahead of him. He's going to bring on assistants, get into the heads of those who stay and at sign at least a half dozen new players that determine the direction for the future. Then the games begin...
 

This just means that for you and those like you who have some set of "impressive" hires relative to Craig Smith: those are all guys that we could never get. They either have no interest in coming here, in of itself, and/or they have their sights set on bigger fish.
If so, this is more of what epitomizes the loser mentality in this city and at this institution. It doesn't matter if it's true or not (it isn't); the bigger issue is the pervasive effect the mentality has. It wasn't always like this here.
 


The last three "big time" Coaches we hired were Tubby, Monson, and Clem....in a sense all three got us into the tourney but were somewhat dissapointments.

Out of all the ones mentioned....Musselman might be the only one in that class.
 




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