Gophers dead last in 2016 Recruiting

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dpodoll68 said:
Where did I say that? Your argument is that the Gophers played a lot of true freshmen, and therefore they suck. Alabama plays even more true freshmen, so they must suck harder, right?

Also, I have zero doubt in my mind that Carter Coughlin would be playing on any team in the country.
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Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say they sucked. The crux of the text was the level of talent we recruit versus the top 20-25 schools So you think Carter would start for Bama when he is not even starting for the Gophers? Hmm....
 

Spoofin said:
Actually, it is nothing at all like saying that. You are talking about a tangible item in on-field performance where as I am talking not only about the pure speculation of recruiting rankings, but the speculation in the difference between 3-star recruits who play in different systems, leagues, states, etc., etc. I get it, you pay for and view recruiting info as gospel - but get past the first couple hundred kids and my guess in who will succeed in what system is as good as the folks who make the rankings. #Fact
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I don't. There are many 4 and 5* recruits that don't pan out just like there are many 2 and 3* that do. I used to be on your side, but statistics prove otherwise.

The Gophers have had recruiting classes ranked 51-78 under Kill/Claeys. How many times have they finished in the top 25? 0. How many top 20 teams have they beat? 0
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say they sucked. The crux of the text was the level of talent we recruit versus the top 20-25 schools So you think Carter would start for Bama when he is not even starting for the Gophers? Hmm....
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You named the #1, #3 and #4 ranked teams earlier. It might have been better if you asked if the 5 true freshman would be playing for teams like Iowa, Louisville, Baylor, or Arkansas.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't. There are many 4 and 5* recruits that don't pan out just like there are many 2 and 3* that do. I used to be on your side, but statistics prove otherwise.

The Gophers have had recruiting classes ranked 51-78 under Kill/Claeys. How many times have they finished in the top 25? 0. How many top 20 teams have they beat? 0
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For the top 15 teams maybe, but the statistics get real muddy for teams #40 and beyond. Boise State. I can give countless examples either way.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say they sucked. The crux of the text was the level of talent we recruit versus the top 20-25 schools So you think Carter would start for Bama when he is not even starting for the Gophers? Hmm....
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Never said that Coughlin would be starting for Alabama. If your point wasn't that playing true freshmen means you suck, why did you even bring them up in the context of this conversation?
 


dpodoll68 said:
Never said that Coughlin would be starting for Alabama. If your point wasn't that playing true freshmen means you suck, why did you even bring them up in the context of this conversation?
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are you expecting a legit answer?

Just giving you some crap rup. It's early in a weak MN class. We're not going to see 4 and 5 star out of state guys flocking to us. The most likely would be DBs, but even as of yet our track record is not that good. The good thing is, if Coughlin and Johnson star/contribute significantly, that's going to keep the borders locked in theory which is step 1. you don't go from terrible classes to recruiting top 25 overnight unless there's some red flags (ie you're paying people a la Ole Miss--> think Tunsil OR you are taking red flag guys/high risk guys a la MN in the Brewster years.

We've hashed this out time and time again. Claeys isn't going to come in and land high profile guys in his first year. He's not a salesman. He's going to have to prove it on the field to get the classes like Iowa and Wisconsin because, let's face it, we haven't been winning 8+ games consistently and no one wants to go to a school and bring them up by the bootstraps if they have no allegiance to the state. offering PT sounds great on NCAA on your Xbox, but the reality is winning teams appeal in vastly higher quantities, especially when overcoming geography.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Never said that Coughlin would be starting for Alabama. If your point wasn't that playing true freshmen means you suck, why did you even bring them up in the context of this conversation?
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We're talking about offers here. Other than Coughlin, look at the offer sheet of the true freshmen that are playing. Depodoll my good man would you like to win the West and the B1G Championship and go to the Rose Bowl? I would. I'll stand my ground and say with the current level of recruiting my chances a seeing the afore mentioned in my lifetime ( age 72) are slim and none , and slim is out of town.
 

PMWinSTP said:
For the top 15 teams maybe, but the statistics get real muddy for teams #40 and beyond. Boise State. I can give countless examples either way.
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No they don't, look at the chart I posted, then get back to me. You picked one example Tennessee that's an underachiever and Boise State that's an overachiever even though they play in a lesser conference. Northwestern and Missouri finish close to where they are supposed to. If you can't understand simple math and correlations, then I can't help you.

Most years, Wisconsin and Iowa finish on average 10 spots ahead of Minnesota. Wisconsin has 24 players on 53 man NFL rosters, Iowa has 22. Minnesota has 9. It's not just coaching, 10 spots makes a difference in talent.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
No they don't, look at the chart I posted, then get back to me. You picked one example Tennessee that's an underachiever and Boise State that's an overachiever even though they play in a lesser conference. Northwestern and Missouri finish close to where they are supposed to. If you can't understand simple math and correlations, then I can't help you.

Most years, Wisconsin and Iowa finish on average 10 spots ahead of Minnesota. Wisconsin has 24 players on 53 man NFL rosters, Iowa has 22. Minnesota has 9. It's not just coaching, 10 spots makes a difference in talent.
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Understand math fine, and certainly wouldn't look to you for any kind of help. I mentioned multiple other teams. I can name many more. Knew you'd use the lesser conference dig on Boise, typical. Absolutely stand by that from 40-60, it's a crap shoot on talent level. 2-3 star is where there is much more guessing...have they peaked, have they not? The right program fit and coaching ability to develop is key in that range. Getting beyond 60 and it becomes magnified.
 



PMWinSTP said:
Understand math fine, and certainly wouldn't look to you for any kind of help. I mentioned multiple other teams. I can name many more. Knew you'd use the lesser conference dig on Boise, typical. Absolutely stand by that from 40-60, it's a crap shoot on talent level. 2-3 star is where there is much more guessing...have they peaked, have they not? The right program fit and coaching ability to develop is key in that range. Getting beyond 60 and it becomes magnified.
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Well you continue to show you don't by arguing against it.
 

Ranking recruits is like predicting the weather - any monkey can do it and be right/wrong as much as a "professional".


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't. There are many 4 and 5* recruits that don't pan out just like there are many 2 and 3* that do. I used to be on your side, but statistics prove otherwise.

The Gophers have had recruiting classes ranked 51-78 under Kill/Claeys. How many times have they finished in the top 25? 0. How many top 20 teams have they beat? 0
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Nebraska was a top 25 team both times we beat them, believe Iowa was to in Kill's first year
 




GopherWeatherGuy said:
I said top 20. Nebraska was 21 both times we beat them. Iowa was not ranked. Overall Kill/Claeys are 2-17 vs the top 25.
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Because 20 and 21 are so different?

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
No they don't, look at the chart I posted, then get back to me. You picked one example Tennessee that's an underachiever and Boise State that's an overachiever even though they play in a lesser conference. Northwestern and Missouri finish close to where they are supposed to. If you can't understand simple math and correlations, then I can't help you.

Most years, Wisconsin and Iowa finish on average 10 spots ahead of Minnesota. Wisconsin has 24 players on 53 man NFL rosters, Iowa has 22. Minnesota has 9. It's not just coaching, 10 spots makes a difference in talent.
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In fairness, the argument is that Kill/Claeys are good at less recruited talented players. So your last paragraph is meaningless because a good portion of the Badgers you have mentioned were recruited pre-Kill.

Kill/Claeys have essentially recruited what would be two classes of their players who are NFL draft eligible and right now we have the following people in NFL who were recruited by Kill/Claeys (Murray, Boddy-Calhoun, D. Wilson, I. Fruechte, Maxx Williams, David Cobb, D. Campbell).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
In fairness, the argument is that Kill/Claeys are good at less recruited talented players. So your last paragraph is meaningless because a good portion of the Badgers you have mentioned were recruited pre-Kill.

Kill/Claeys have essentially recruited what would be two classes of their players who are NFL draft eligible and right now we have the following people in NFL who were recruited by Kill/Claeys (Murray, Boddy-Calhoun, D. Wilson, I. Fruechte, Maxx Williams, David Cobb, D. Campbell).
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I only included players on the 53 man rosters as those were the easiest to find. So practice squad players like Cobb and Fruechte weren't counted. Neither were any from Wisconsin or Iowa.

Kill is putting players in the NFL at the same rate as Mason was. Mason and Kill's recruiting classes were similarly ranked in the middle of the pack. Their records on the field have also been similar.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I only included players on the 53 man rosters as those were the easiest to find. So practice squad players like Cobb and Fruechte weren't counted. Neither were any from Wisconsin or Iowa.

Kill is putting players in the NFL at the same rate as Mason was. Mason and Kill's recruiting classes were similarly ranked in the middle of the pack. Their records on the field have also been similar.
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how many OL gas he put in the NFL ?
 


Big for our team to beat the teams we are suppose to this year. We need to go 10-3 or 9-4. Rutgers, Maryland, and Illinois are likely getting a bit of a bump in recruiting, but it will likely be short lived if they get pounded this year. I am concerned with the defensive replacement coaches for Sherels and with O'Brien when it comes to recruiting. Hope we can win this year and continue to build on the foundation.
 

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