Gophers dead last in 2016 Recruiting

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1. The fact someone would argue there is a real difference between any classes ranked between 40 & 60 is insane. There simply isn't.

2. Why are we still talking stars when 247 has dots?


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Spoofin said:
1. The fact someone would argue there is a real difference between any classes ranked between 40 & 60 is insane. There simply isn't.
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That would be similar to saying there is no difference between the on field performance of Wisconsin and Iowa vs Minnesota. That's insane.
 

Also worth noting there are 3* guys out there who have nobody who matters recruiting them....

And then you have 3* guys out there where Bama and every great program and their mom are trying to recruit.

But they're the same as far as many recruiting sites go, but I'm gonna take a guess and say there is a world of difference between those guys.
 


A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Also worth noting there are 3* guys out there who have nobody who matters recruiting them....

And then you have 3* guys out there where Bama and every great program and their mom are trying to recruit.

But they're the same as far as many recruiting sites go, but I'm gonna take a guess and say there is a world of difference between those guys.
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No one, including the recruiting sites say the rankings are perfect. But in general, the higher ranked recruiting classes you have, the higher you finish in the standings. There's a strong correlation and it's explained in the article I posted at the end of the last page.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
No one, including the recruiting sites say the rankings are perfect. But in general, the higher ranked recruiting classes you have, the higher you finish in the standings. There's a strong correlation and it's explained in the article I posted at the end of the last page.
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I don't think anyone doubts the connection, but the question is where does it count / how much when it comes to teams like the Gophers.

Pretty easy to make the connection between 5* and a ton of 4* guys and winning. Less so the middle of the road teams who are just a bunch of wildly varying in quality 3*.
 


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Some fans have it easy. I remember people freakin' out when Sheldon Richardson visited (it was him, right?)
 



Who cares about the last ten years. The last 5 involve guys who are playing now. In the last 5 years Minnesota beat Wisconsin once in recruiting and Wisconsin's class had 14 kids in it and Minnesota's had 26. Comparing our recruiting to Wisconsin right now seems foolish. I used the 247 composite rankings.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Tennessee.
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Tennessee had some down years and is on the rebound. They're last five classes were rated #17 (2012) 21 (2013), 5 (2014), 5 (2015) and 15 (2016) by Rivals. They're currently rated #15 in the AP poll. Where should they be?
 

Don't worry the Gophers have this incredible recruiting philosophy. Soon they will be poaching recruits from the Sun Belt Conference.
 

If you want to be a Top 20-25 team in the country you don't get there by finishing last in the B1G in recruiting. You can only coach up so many kids. You take the 5 true freshman who have already played this year.Do you think any of them would see the field if they were with Alabama,
Michigan, Ohio State, etc?
 





Whatever. To me the Gophers are in 1st place cause its the only team that matters to me. The players committed and signed are the ones who want to be here...end of story.

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ruppertflywheel said:
My good man you really think the 5 Gopher true freshmen would be good enough to play for Alabama? Ouch......
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Where did I say that? Your argument is that the Gophers played a lot of true freshmen, and therefore they suck. Alabama plays even more true freshmen, so they must suck harder, right?

Also, I have zero doubt in my mind that Carter Coughlin would be playing on any team in the country.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
If you want to be a Top 20-25 team in the country you don't get there by finishing last in the B1G in recruiting. You can only coach up so many kids. You take the 5 true freshman who have already played this year.Do you think any of them would see the field if they were with Alabama,
Michigan, Ohio State, etc?
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You're probably always going to be disappointed with our recruiting if you compare it to those programs.
 

Recruiting, spring camp, fall camp, on-field in-game performance, graduating players to the NFL. This is a long-term, slow, iterative process with incremental progress and metrics. To proclaim that the Gophers are doomed based on a recruiting season that is far from over is ignorant at best. The program, starting with the foundation Kill has laid, has worked on retaining top in-state talent, something that Gopher fans have long moaned about. They have made incredible progress in that realm of in-state recruiting and they will look to build off of that success. They have begun construction on a much needed facilities upgrade which will also help bring in top-talent. There are many steps to improving their year-over-year recruiting rankings and IMO they are taking those steps.

If the Gophers can improve their national standing on offense during this season and maintain/improve their national standing on defense, this will also help improve recruiting. But none of what I have said are things that haven't been said or pointed out before.

There's a lot of football left this season, I'm not going to burn calories wringing my hands about recruiting.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Tennessee had some down years and is on the rebound. They're last five classes were rated #17 (2012) 21 (2013), 5 (2014), 5 (2015) and 15 (2016) by Rivals. They're currently rated #15 in the AP poll. Where should they be?
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Let's see where they're ranked in 4-5 weeks and revisit that. They were ranked this high because of recruiting and have looked like a giant pile of dog turds.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Tennessee had some down years and is on the rebound. They're last five classes were rated #17 (2012) 21 (2013), 5 (2014), 5 (2015) and 15 (2016) by Rivals. They're currently rated #15 in the AP poll. Where should they be?
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Yep...TN record for 2008-2014 was 40-47. Included two winning seasons (7-6).

Recruiting rank

2007 #3
2008 #35
2009 #10
2010 #9
2011 #14
 


Hates Monikers said:
Their coach was fired, and rightfully so.
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The one hired in 2010 yes, in 2012. Not the other two during this period. Fulmer retired after 16 years...and you remember Lane Kiffin's departure right? Highlighting a team that consistently ranked high in recruiting classes but consistently under-performed during that same period.
 

PMWinSTP said:
The one hired in 2010 yes, in 2012. Not the other two during this period. Fulmer retired after 16 years...and you remember Lane Kiffin's departure right? Highlighting a team that consistently ranked high in recruiting classes but consistently under-performed during that same period.
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The last year of Fulmer's tenure was bad, after things like a national championship and SEC title games. Going through three coaches in five years is enough to make any program take a step back.

At any rate, you're blurting out a few outliers of teams that have outperformed or underperformed their rankings. Sure, it happens -- but even those examples sometimes can be debatable.
 

Hates Monikers said:
The last year of Fulmer's tenure was bad, after things like a national championship and SEC title games. Going through three coaches in five years is enough to make any program take a step back.

At any rate, you're blurting out a few outliers of teams that have outperformed or underperformed their rankings. Sure, it happens -- but even those examples sometimes can be debatable.
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Happens way more than once in awhile. Used Tennessee because of Fulmer...I can certainly list many more, and they are not debatable. My original point was that between #40 an #60, there is not a discernible difference in recruiting talent.
 

Keep it up, that dead horse was about to crawl away.


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I know the recruiting services wouldn't look at the stars retroactively, but it sure would be nice to see recruited stars vs. actual stars. For example, Jeff Jones was a very highly regarded recruit who I'm sure moved up the average. Yet, he played a couple downs, and was a non-factor. The opposite could be said for a guy like Brien Boddy-Calhoun. Likely a two star guy who turned out to be very productive during his stay. It's more likely his play earned him high three star status.
This seems like a job for some guy who has a lot of time on his hands. I'd like to see average stars as a recruit compared to average stars as a player. It's still subjective, but using criteria like All Big 10, number of years starting, All American, etc. could devise a formula.
Dr. Don, get on this pronto.
 

Oh, thank goodness!

For a second I thought the original post said that the Gophers were dead.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Happens way more than once in awhile. Used Tennessee because of Fulmer...I can certainly list many more, and they are not debatable. My original point was that between #40 an #60, there is not a discernible difference in recruiting talent.
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You picked one of the biggest outliers: Tennessee. Every statistical dataset has outliers both ways. But in general teams that finish with a higher ranked class win more games. After you average everything out over multiple years, teams that rank 40th in recruiting will rank close to 40th in record. Some years will be up, some will be down. Same goes for teams ranked 60th.

That's the difference between a 7-8 win team and a 5-6 win team. So yes there is a discernible difference.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That would be similar to saying there is no difference between the on field performance of Wisconsin and Iowa vs Minnesota. That's insane.
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Actually, it is nothing at all like saying that. You are talking about a tangible item in on-field performance where as I am talking not only about the pure speculation of recruiting rankings, but the speculation in the difference between 3-star recruits who play in different systems, leagues, states, etc., etc. I get it, you pay for and view recruiting info as gospel - but get past the first couple hundred kids and my guess in who will succeed in what system is as good as the folks who make the rankings. #Fact


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