Former Minnesota head coach Tracy Claeys added to Hokies staff, reunites with Kill

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nsmike said:
Claeys had a secondary coach in open rebellion against him and couldn't get Mike Leach's support to make him toe the line and do things his way. The situation was intolerable and Claeys walked away. Given the situation defensive breakdowns were inevitable.
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Giving up 60 to a winless UCLA team...
 




Pompous Elitist said:
The players weren’t protesting anything TC did or didn’t do. Pretty simple, aye?
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Yup. It is really simple.

1) the players thought the Admin messed up (not debating this...whether they did or not is opinion and irrelevant to what I’m saying)

2) the Players took action that embarrassed the university and administration in national media (maybe you think this is good because of your opinion on #1...but hopefully you see that this is true)

3) the coach publicly contributed to the embarrassment with statements or tweets he made. Making it impossible for the admin to keep him around.
Even with a change in admin, they weren’t going to keep him around.

they may have wanted him out or already decided to fire him. But there isn’t a coach in the country save for maybe the active coaches with national titles that could survive saying what he said after the university did and said what they did and said
 



Some guy said:
Yup. It is really simple.

1) the players thought the Admin messed up (not debating this...whether they did or not is opinion and irrelevant to what I’m saying)

2) the Players took action that embarrassed the university and administration in national media (maybe you think this is good because of your opinion on #1...but hopefully you see that this is true)

3) the coach publicly contributed to the embarrassment with statements or tweets he made. Making it impossible for the admin to keep him around.
Even with a change in admin, they weren’t going to keep him around.

they may have wanted him out or already decided to fire him. But there isn’t a coach in the country save for maybe the active coaches with national titles that could survive saying what he said after the university did and said what they did and said
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I agree the administration clearly wanted them gone long before the protest regarding the expelled and suspended players. Good on TC, Sherels, Sawvel for not turtling on their players like a few others at the school.

Again, you and others wildly overestimate the “damage” this story caused. It was an unfortunate series of events that spiraled way out of control because guess what, that’s what happens when communication (AD) and common sense (re: EOAA) break down and people feel wronged. TC was not able to talk them out of it likely due to the high emotion and fair to ding him for that. It’s reasonable to think somebody else may have been able to mediate things better but we’ll never know. Cascading failures.

I talk college football with ALOT of people outside MN (fans of other programs) and not a single one has ever brought it up because guess what, it was here and gone within a couple days.
 

Some guy said:
Yup. It is really simple.

1) the players thought the Admin messed up (not debating this...whether they did or not is opinion and irrelevant to what I’m saying)

2) the Players took action that embarrassed the university and administration in national media (maybe you think this is good because of your opinion on #1...but hopefully you see that this is true)

3) the coach publicly contributed to the embarrassment with statements or tweets he made. Making it impossible for the admin to keep him around.
Even with a change in admin, they weren’t going to keep him around.

they may have wanted him out or already decided to fire him. But there isn’t a coach in the country save for maybe the active coaches with national titles that could survive saying what he said after the university did and said what they did and said
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MC said publicly that he and TC had agreed on their position. That was BS and TC called MC out on it (by publicly saying “no we didn’t”). Yep, if there was any chance (and there wasn’t) that TC was going to keep his job - it fizzled in that moment. I’m not sure why someone would look down on TC for standing up for himself in that situation tho?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I agree the administration clearly wanted them gone long before the protest regarding the expelled and suspended players. Good on TC, Sherels, Sawvel for not turtling on their players like a few others at the school.

Again, you and others wildly overestimate the “damage” this story caused. It was an unfortunate series of events that spiraled way out of control because guess what, that’s what happens when communication (AD) and common sense (re: EOAA) break down and people feel wronged. TC was not able to talk them out of it likely due to the high emotion and fair to ding him for that. It’s reasonable to think somebody else may have been able to mediate things better but we’ll never know. Cascading failures.

I talk college football with ALOT of people outside MN (fans of other programs) and not a single one has ever brought it up because guess what, it was here and gone within a couple days.
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I think the players were protesting (threatened boycott) what they deemed was an injustice. They probably felt it was similar to what went on at U of Missouri (a protest against injustice) and saw the power that the boycott wielded there. TC stood up for his players. My hunch is TC already knew Coyle was planning to fire him (new AD wanting to hire his own guy - and I am guessing there were lots of behind the scenes clues), so he didn't really care about how delicately he handled supporting his players. He probably figured if he was on his way out, he'd go out supporting the players (not the admin that was about to fire him anyway).
 



Word said:
I think the players were protesting (threatened boycott) what they deemed was an injustice. They probably felt it was similar to what went on at U of Missouri (a protest against injustice) and saw the power that the boycott wielded there. TC stood up for his players. My hunch is TC already knew Coyle was planning to fire him (new AD wanting to hire his own guy - and I am guessing there were lots of behind the scenes clues), so he didn't really care about how delicately he handled supporting his players. He probably figured if he was on his way out, he'd go out supporting the players (not the admin that was about to fire him anyway).
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Spot on. And Claeys made a nice haul of money here at the U, is a confirmed bachelor, so no family to support, and by all accounts is a really smart guy. So he was probably financially secure enough to do what he thought was right, damn the consequences. And good for him. I supported letting him go, because I didn't see a good future with him as a head coach, particularly in ability to recruit. But I do think he is a good coach.

As far as Wazzu - I can't imagine Leach is easy to work with. And this is from someone who's a big fan of Leach, and REALLY wanted him at the U when they hired Kill instead.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
I agree the administration clearly wanted them gone long before the protest regarding the expelled and suspended players. Good on TC, Sherels, Sawvel for not turtling on their players like a few others at the school.

Again, you and others wildly overestimate the “damage” this story caused. It was an unfortunate series of events that spiraled way out of control because guess what, that’s what happens when communication (AD) and common sense (re: EOAA) break down and people feel wronged. TC was not able to talk them out of it likely due to the high emotion and fair to ding him for that. It’s reasonable to think somebody else may have been able to mediate things better but we’ll never know. Cascading failures.

I talk college football with ALOT of people outside MN (fans of other programs) and not a single one has ever brought it up because guess what, it was here and gone within a couple days.
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You have been wrong about most of what you have posted about the sexual abuse scandal since it first happened. You have zero evidence the administration wanted to fire Claeys before he puked all over himself with his pathetic handling of the scandal. College football coaches are supposed to educate and lead their players. And when necessary, they are expected to hold players accountable for their bad behavior both on and off the field. We all know Fleck has done that several times since he has been here. Claeys did the exact opposite.

The Hennepin District Attorney did not declare the players innocent of sexually assaulting a female student. He only said there was not enough evidence to persuade a jury to convict them of criminal sexual conduct and put them in prison. The EOAA investigation to determine if there were violations of the Student Code of Conduct wasn't a surprise to anyone, particularly Claeys. The U's general counsel would have educated him about the code of conduct disciplinary procedures and advised him what to do every step of the way.

Claeys knew the EOAA investigators were talking to the players involved, their teammates, their roommates, and even their girl friends. Yet Claeys did absolutely nothing to prepare his team for the possible consequences when the EOAA completed the investigation and made their recommendations to the administration. That, and other failures, cost him his job.

And, by the way. I regularly read other Big 10 football fan forums during football season. The Gopher sexual abuse scandal is still brought up by Gopher haters on those sites. How many years has it been?
 
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Claeys made a mistake when he left himself no choice but to install the same offensive game plan that had been in place for 4-5 straight years.
 



Cruze said:
You have been wrong about most of what you have posted about the sexual abuse scandal since it first happened. You have zero evidence the administration wanted to fire Claeys before he puked all over himself with his pathetic handling of the scandal. College football coaches are supposed to educate and lead their players. And when necessary, they are expected to hold players accountable for their bad behavior both on and off the field. We all know Fleck has done that several times since he has been here. Claeys did the exact opposite.

The Hennepin District Attorney did not declare the players innocent of sexually assaulting a female student. He only said there was not enough evidence to persuade a jury to convict them of criminal sexual conduct and put them in prison. The EOAA investigation to determine if there were violations of the Student Code of Conduct wasn't a surprise to anyone, particularly Claeys. The U's general counsel would have educated him about the code of conduct disciplinary procedures and advised him what to do every step of the way.

Claeys knew the EOAA investigators were talking to the players involved, their teammates, their roommates, and even their girl friends. Yet Claeys did absolutely nothing to prepare his team for the possible consequences when the EOAA completed the investigation and made their recommendations to the administration. That, and other failures, cost him his job.

And, by the way. I regularly read other Big 10 football fan forums during football season. The Gopher sexual abuse scandal is still brought up by Gopher haters on those sites. How many years has it been?
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Your insistence to still talk about the players as if they were guilty is mind-boggling and dangerous. You and the rest of the pitch-fork nation may think it is OK to do so, but it is not. The DA doesn't assign innocence or guilt in any case - it is the system that does that and when you aren't charged you are innocent. Period. Get a grip. As for even mentioning the EOAA investigation from this case in the same paragraph as discussing "guilt" or "innocence" is appalling. That was, without a doubt, the biggest CF of the whole situation.
 

Cruze said:
You have been wrong about most of what you have posted about the sexual abuse scandal since it first happened. You have zero evidence the administration wanted to fire Claeys before he puked all over himself with his pathetic handling of the scandal. College football coaches are supposed to educate and lead their players. And when necessary, they are expected to hold players accountable for their bad behavior both on and off the field. We all know Fleck has done that several times since he has been here. Claeys did the exact opposite.

The Hennepin District Attorney did not declare the players innocent of sexually assaulting a female student. He only said there was not enough evidence to persuade a jury to convict them of criminal sexual conduct and put them in prison. The EOAA investigation to determine if there were violations of the Student Code of Conduct wasn't a surprise to anyone, particularly Claeys. The U's general counsel would have educated him about the code of conduct disciplinary procedures and advised him what to do every step of the way.

Claeys knew the EOAA investigators were talking to the players involved, their teammates, their roommates, and even their girl friends. Yet Claeys did absolutely nothing to prepare his team for the possible consequences when the EOAA completed the investigation and made their recommendations to the administration. That, and other failures, cost him his job.

And, by the way. I regularly read other Big 10 football fan forums during football season. The Gopher sexual abuse scandal is still brought up by Gopher haters on those sites. How many years has it been?
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Sure you do, with all your free time as a big time lawyer. Post a link.
 

Cruze said:
And, by the way. I regularly read other Big 10 football fan forums during football season. The Gopher sexual abuse scandal is still brought up by Gopher haters on those sites. How many years has it been?
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And I bet they probably refer to them as the 10 rapists too, right? That was kinda the whole problem for a lot of people. They all got lumped together when we learned afterwards that a few of the 10 weren't even there. Sure they were able to win their appeal but the damage was done already.
 

Spoofin said:
MC said publicly that he and TC had agreed on their position. That was BS and TC called MC out on it (by publicly saying “no we didn’t”). Yep, if there was any chance (and there wasn’t) that TC was going to keep his job - it fizzled in that moment. I’m not sure why someone would look down on TC for standing up for himself in that situation tho?
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I don’t look down on him.
I’m just saying he made himself unhireable in the short term as a head coach.

I didn’t say he was a bad person.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I agree the administration clearly wanted them gone long before the protest regarding the expelled and suspended players. Good on TC, Sherels, Sawvel for not turtling on their players like a few others at the school.

Again, you and others wildly overestimate the “damage” this story caused. It was an unfortunate series of events that spiraled way out of control because guess what, that’s what happens when communication (AD) and common sense (re: EOAA) break down and people feel wronged. TC was not able to talk them out of it likely due to the high emotion and fair to ding him for that. It’s reasonable to think somebody else may have been able to mediate things better but we’ll never know. Cascading failures.

I talk college football with ALOT of people outside MN (fans of other programs) and not a single one has ever brought it up because guess what, it was here and gone within a couple days.
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For sure. I guess it hasn’t hurt TC’s ability to get a head coaching job.

maybe he doesn’t want a head coaching job. Another good reason not to give him Minnesota’s.

If you can’t see that what he did made him not hireable as a head coach. I can’t help you.
 

Some guy said:
For sure. I guess it hasn’t hurt TC’s ability to get a head coaching job.

maybe he doesn’t want a head coaching job. Another good reason not to give him Minnesota’s.

If you can’t see that what he did made him not hireable as a head coach. I can’t help you.
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Were we arguing about his fitness as a head coach? That’s certainly debatable.

No, I don’t think his tweet was as bad as you say and had he been in the good graces of the management they surely could have corrected the purposefully obtuse commentariat out there but they didn’t do that for obvious reasons. He was DOA.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Were we arguing about his fitness as a head coach? That’s certainly debatable.

No, I don’t think his tweet was as bad as you say and had he been in the good graces of the management they surely could have corrected the purposefully obtuse commentariat out there but they didn’t do that for obvious reasons. He was DOA.
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I’ll never understand the view some had on that tweet. Guy says he is proud of his team - obviously for taking a stand for what they believed was right - and people act like he was giving a virtual high five for having group sex. As you said, classy of MC to let that go.
 

Couple points over looked in the Tracy bashing. He was head coach for one season.
He won 9 games. He had the best on the field performance recruiting class in the internet era.
Would you respect a leader/coach who sided with administration just to keep his job? Or a man who believed his players were in the right and stood behind them? This was a team! They proved their appreciation when they went out with a depleted squad and dominated in victory as under dogs.
You can put PJ on a pedestal without bashing the coaches who came before him. They all did good things too at some point.
PJ has given us hope, 10 wins and one Axe.
As a coach I can tell you it’s a lot easier to get to this point than it is to sustain year after year success. PJ’s class today seems like a good beginning to that end. Go Gophers!
 

Spoofin said:
I’ll never understand the view some had on that tweet. Guy says he is proud of his team - obviously for taking a stand for what they believed was right - and people act like he was giving a virtual high five for having group sex. As you said, classy of MC to let that go.
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Yeah, it’s wierd.

Some seem to forget Kaler getting in front of every camera he could and flushing the guys down the toilet BEFORE the hearing and appeals process had even occurred. If that’s the kind of leadership we want at the highest levels I can’t help you. Reap what you sow, guys. I do believe what goes around eventually comes around.
 

Cruze said:
You have been wrong about most of what you have posted about the sexual abuse scandal since it first happened. You have zero evidence the administration wanted to fire Claeys before he puked all over himself with his pathetic handling of the scandal. College football coaches are supposed to educate and lead their players. And when necessary, they are expected to hold players accountable for their bad behavior both on and off the field. We all know Fleck has done that several times since he has been here. Claeys did the exact opposite.

The Hennepin District Attorney did not declare the players innocent of sexually assaulting a female student. He only said there was not enough evidence to persuade a jury to convict them of criminal sexual conduct and put them in prison. The EOAA investigation to determine if there were violations of the Student Code of Conduct wasn't a surprise to anyone, particularly Claeys. The U's general counsel would have educated him about the code of conduct disciplinary procedures and advised him what to do every step of the way.

Claeys knew the EOAA investigators were talking to the players involved, their teammates, their roommates, and even their girl friends. Yet Claeys did absolutely nothing to prepare his team for the possible consequences when the EOAA completed the investigation and made their recommendations to the administration. That, and other failures, cost him his job.

And, by the way. I regularly read other Big 10 football fan forums during football season. The Gopher sexual abuse scandal is still brought up by Gopher haters on those sites. How many years has it been?
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I can't speak for P.E., but all I can say is that the AD had plans for the program from day one. It was pretty clear that Claeys had little to no chance to stay on as head coach.
 

60's Guy said:
Couple points over looked in the Tracy bashing. He was head coach for one season.
He won 9 games. He had the best on the field performance recruiting class in the internet era.
Would you respect a leader/coach who sided with administration just to keep his job? Or a man who believed his players were in the right and stood behind them? This was a team! They proved their appreciation when they went out with a depleted squad and dominated in victory as under dogs.
You can put PJ on a pedestal without bashing the coaches who came before him. They all did good things too at some point.
PJ has given us hope, 10 wins and one Axe.
As a coach I can tell you it’s a lot easier to get to this point than it is to sustain year after year success. PJ’s class today seems like a good beginning to that end. Go Gophers!
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Couldn't agree more if I tried!
 

Spoofin said:
I’ll never understand the view some had on that tweet. Guy says he is proud of his team - obviously for taking a stand for what they believed was right - and people act like he was giving a virtual high five for having group sex. As you said, classy of MC to let that go.
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What was bad about his tweet wasn’t anything having to do with sex.

what was bad about the tweet was publicly contradicting the stance of the university and his direct supervisor
 

Some guy said:
What was bad about his tweet wasn’t anything having to do with sex.

what was bad about the tweet was publicly contradicting the stance of the university and his direct supervisor
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Subject has been beaten to death.... I view what happened in simple terms, and the heat of the moment. Coach was backing his boys, innocent until proven guilty. It was pretty clear at the time that a substantial number of them were being railroaded. The process stunk.

On to the Outback Bowl.
 

Vandy said:
Subject has been beaten to death.... I view what happened in simple terms, and the heat of the moment. Coach was backing his boys, innocent until proven guilty. It was pretty clear at the time that a substantial number of them were being railroaded. The process stunk.

On to the Outback Bowl.
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Yup.
That’s exactly the point.
The coach was backing his boys rather than his boss and employer.
A sure fire way to make yourself unhireable
 

Some guy said:
Yup.
That’s exactly the point.
The coach was backing his boys rather than his boss and employer.
A sure fire way to make yourself unhireable
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PJ said there was a leadership issue when he first met the team.
 

STPGopher said:
I can't speak for P.E., but all I can say is that the AD had plans for the program from day one. It was pretty clear that Claeys had little to no chance to stay on as head coach.
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Probably because it was painfully obvious Claeys was in over his head as a B1G head football coach.

And thankfully Coyle and the administration not only fixed that problem quickly, but managed to make a home run hire as well.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I agree the administration clearly wanted them gone long before the protest regarding the expelled and suspended players. Good on TC, Sherels, Sawvel for not turtling on their players like a few others at the school.

Again, you and others wildly overestimate the “damage” this story caused. It was an unfortunate series of events that spiraled way out of control because guess what, that’s what happens when communication (AD) and common sense (re: EOAA) break down and people feel wronged. TC was not able to talk them out of it likely due to the high emotion and fair to ding him for that. It’s reasonable to think somebody else may have been able to mediate things better but we’ll never know. Cascading failures.

I talk college football with ALOT of people outside MN (fans of other programs) and not a single one has ever brought it up because guess what, it was here and gone within a couple days.
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Agree with your second paragraph except for that first sentence. There was damage to the University. We were a national story for all the wrong reasons for quite a while. You might be very lucky in choosing the football fans you talk to, but, guess what? What goes on at the University is followed by everyone in the state, not just football fans. Many of the women, in particular, I talk to were very disgusted with the whole mess. Funding the U in the legislature and supporting it through donations are influenced by the perception of the U by the general public; it's not just about football fans.

Right or wrong, they felt it was jocks being jocks and men taking advantage of someone for sex. Not sure you can claim the players were done lasting damage to their reputations and then blow off the damage to the University with "gone in a couple days."

Like I've said before, there are a lot of gray areas in this story and people, including me, at times see it in terms of either black or white. One of the positive things that comes out of this I hope is more of an awareness by athletes and the student body as a whole by the damage that can be caused by putting yourself in similar situations.
 

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