Fleck is fired up on KFAN

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MNVCGUY said:
We can't stress as much about our coach being poached so now we can replace that by assuming all star players are going to get stolen after every good season.

Maybe Taylor gets stolen away after this year and maybe he doesn't, but panicking about it before it even happens is a waste of time.

I do hope they get a handle on the poaching though because it is BS for teams to go after players that are not in the portal. There needs to be a harsh punishment of some kind when it happens or you will have boosters shopping other teams rosters trying to lure players away with offers of big money payouts. There is a reason pro leagues have rules against tampering. It is bad for the sport.

We are caught in a perfect storm now with unregulated pay for play combined with free transfers and immediate eligibility. At some point they will get a handle of some kind on all this but at the moment it is a mess.
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Immediate eligibility needs to go away to fix this issue
You could limit the harm of a transfer to the kid by simply saying if you transfer you automatically sit out a year but it doesn’t count as a year of eligibility or even a redshirt year.
FredCoxRocks said:
...and go back to the rule of sitting out a year after transferring.

I know that will never happen, not anymore...but, just a thought.
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agree
 

GopherTheJugular said:
I get that, but how many other programs have the requirements of Fleck's? I mean, if I'm a booster and I'm funding a kid to play in the SEC, I'm rather comfortable thinking that kid will play unless he violated a rule like being late to practice or something else related to football.

For instance, if you were paying Zach Evans to be here, out of your own pocket, and you see him sitting on the sidelines, apparently healthy, but not getting into the games...wouldn't you feel like your NIL was wasted? Especially if it was because he slept through a class?
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Spending big NIL $$ on high school players is going to be a gamble no matter what. Not all of them pan out, or will stay at that school. I'm sure Ohio St boosters were happy to shell out 1 million + to get Quinn Ewers to sign at the time. Everyone knew he wasn't going to play ahead of CJ Stroud his freshman year. Then a year later he's taking more money to start at Texas.

If you're treating NIL for individual players like an investment, you have to go in knowing you're not going to win on every investment.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
True, but I think Fleck goes a little further than most. Plus at the pro level, the people responsible for the rules are tightly coupled with the person cutting the paychecks. Not necessarily the case with NIL.
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Jerry was pretty strict on some things too. Golden loafers t-shirts.
 

If you’re a rich guy looking to help the Gophers out by throwing some money at a croot, a commit, and/or, a hotshot freshman ……. How do you even know which guy to offer and how much to give???

You’re not “supposed” to be able to know such stuff, right??? Because coaching staff isn’t allowed to direct any of it or have any finger in any such pots, right???


This is where it would make sense, at all schools, to organize and funnel all such activities through the/a collective. It acts as the firewall between the money and the coaching staff, and acts as the director of the money without having to ask the coaching staff who should get what (*WINK WINK*).

And it has the added benefit of removing all association between donations and donors. Some guy can no longer say “that’s my $50k going to that guy! That’s my guy! I want X,Y,Z.”


Outside huge gifts, I would assume that’s how it’s being done everywhere, since the benefits are so obvious.


And so …. I would just then assume our collective is one of the lowest ranked in donation revenue in the P5.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Spending big NIL $$ on high school players is going to be a gamble no matter what. Not all of them pan out, or will stay at that school. I'm sure Ohio St boosters were happy to shell out 1 million + to get Quinn Ewers to sign at the time. Everyone knew he wasn't going to play ahead of CJ Stroud his freshman year. Then a year later he's taking more money to start at Texas.

If you're treating NIL for individual players like an investment, you have to go in knowing you're not going to win on every investment.
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I can live with that part of it, like Ewers just leaving, etc. But for a coach to just bench a player for something non-football related...that would get me upset. I'd tell PJ, "hey, I kept the player here for ya, if you're not going to play the guys I fund with NIL then the NIL funding gets cut off."
 


Word said:
Jerry was pretty strict on some things too. Golden loafers t-shirts.
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That's an example, although I don't see that working on kids who have legit NIL opportunities. If I was getting NIL offers from other schools and Jerry said I need to wear that loafer shirt, I'd tell him to shove it and I'd head back to my dorm and be gone next semester.

One thing that's new - coaches can't really be the jerks they used to be, which I think is a good thing.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
That's an example, although I don't see that working on kids who have legit NIL opportunities. If I was getting NIL offers from other schools and Jerry said I need to wear that loafer shirt, I'd tell him to shove it and I'd head back to my dorm and be gone next semester.

One thing that's new - coaches can't really be the jerks they used to be, which I think is a good thing.
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I just don't see things working out well for teams that basically have no rules in the name of NIL money. Good luck to them.
 

MplsGopher said:
If you’re a rich guy looking to help the Gophers out by throwing some money at a croot, a commit, and/or, a hotshot freshman ……. How do you even know which guy to offer and how much to give???
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1. I'd start by looking at which of the players in the categories above have the most interest from helmet schools.

2. I'd talk to said kid about NIL and make an offer. If he laughs, I know it's too low. If his eyes get big, probably too high, but can't go back.

3. Then during the conversation I'd gauge his interest in accepting my NIL money and I'd have it structured so he'd *have* to be a Gopher, like you can't say "here's NIL, play for MN" but you could say, "here's NIL, you have in-person engagements to make" and those in-person engagements would be VERY easy for someone living in dinkytown to make, but next to impossible for a student of any other school to make.

That's about it, isn't it?
 

Word said:
I just don't see things working out well for teams that basically have no rules in the name of NIL money. Good luck to them.
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I'm not trying to say, "no rules". I'm trying to say no arbitrary crap outside of football. Sure, like I posted previously, if the player is late to practice or lifting, etc. make them sit out for a half or whatever. Fine. But no punishing someone because they didn't participate in your backpack thingy or waive goodbye to the women's hockey team.

Edit: unless you were referring to my "loafers" comment and Jerry Kill, in which case I'd call it childish. Big time football doesn't need kindergarten crap like that.
 



GopherTheJugular said:
One thing that I thought of that hasn't been mentioned is how will NIL play with RTB? What I mean is this: if I'm not mistaken, PJ requires players to wear a collared shirt to class, sit in the front row, etc. And he has them do things like wear a 75 pound back pack on 9/11.

Well, if I was a booster able to cough up a million bucks or whatever to keep Darius Taylor here, I'm sure as heck not gonna be happy if he's on the sidelines because he skipped class or didn't wear the backpack. One of the conditions of my NIL (of that size) would be that if I kick in $1M to keep him here, he plays whether he participates in the backpack ceremony or not. He plays regardless of what he wears to class; he plays even if he sleeps though some classes.

I doubt PJ would tolerate that only non-NIL players have to row the boat, so would big booster NIL even work with Fleck?
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NIL contract can't be contingent on the athlete enrolling at a particular school. Now, whether or not the NCAA is going to enforce that is an open question.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
I get that, but how many other programs have the requirements of Fleck's? I mean, if I'm a booster and I'm funding a kid to play in the SEC, I'm rather comfortable thinking that kid will play unless he violated a rule like being late to practice or something else related to football.

For instance, if you were paying Zach Evans to be here, out of your own pocket, and you see him sitting on the sidelines, apparently healthy, but not getting into the games...wouldn't you feel like your NIL was wasted? Especially if it was because he slept through a class?
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Do you have reason to believe that PJ has ever benched somebody for wearing a t-shirt to class or sitting in the third row? PJ definitely has more specific requirements than most, but they aren't secrets to the players or to you as a donor. Whether it's PJ or Nick Saban, Kirby Smart or Mel Tucker (RIP), you can't let a donor dictate policy. When you invest your imaginary $1M you know what you are and aren't getting. You get the satisfaction of helping out a player and, hopefully, the team you support. You don't get a say in who gets to play.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
If you're treating NIL for individual players like an investment, you have to go in knowing you're not going to win on every investment.
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Sure. It's just like drafting Ryan Leaf in the NFL. High hopes, but was a total bust.
Difference is, there's no salary cap in college sports.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
I can live with that part of it, like Ewers just leaving, etc. But for a coach to just bench a player for something non-football related...that would get me upset. I'd tell PJ, "hey, I kept the player here for ya, if you're not going to play the guys I fund with NIL then the NIL funding gets cut off."
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That's ridiculous. Then what's the point of having a coach? If winning was as easy as paying the most for a roster, then maybe you would have a point. But it's not, and if I was a school/coach and you were telling me that was the stipulation, I would tell you to go spend your money elsewhere.
 



MplsGopher said:
If you’re a rich guy looking to help the Gophers out by throwing some money at a croot, a commit, and/or, a hotshot freshman ……. How do you even know which guy to offer and how much to give???
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If you're in the rarefied air of a Phil Knight or Boone Pickens, it doesn't really matter. It's F-U money to those guys.

You’re not “supposed” to be able to know such stuff, right??? Because coaching staff isn’t allowed to direct any of it or have any finger in any such pots, right???

This is where it would make sense, at all schools, to organize and funnel all such activities through the/a collective. It acts as the firewall between the money and the coaching staff, and acts as the director of the money without having to ask the coaching staff who should get what (*WINK WINK*).
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Brian Kelly gave $1 million to LSU's collective.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's ridiculous. Then what's the point of having a coach? If winning was as easy as paying the most for a roster, then maybe you would have a point. But it's not, and if I was a school/coach and you were telling me that was the stipulation, I would tell you to go spend your money elsewhere.
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You're right on this. Football is too big, and too complex for it really to be that simple.

But I would be shocked if we don't see some rich dude basically buy a college basketball team in the next few years if not sooner.
 

PMWinSTP said:
NIL contract can't be contingent on the athlete enrolling at a particular school. Now, whether or not the NCAA is going to enforce that is an open question.
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I get that, I'd just get around it by saying part of the terms are that you make so many appearances in Dinkytown, where my "business" is located. Make it so that you pretty much have to attend the U in order to fulfill the NIL terms.
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
Do you have reason to believe that PJ has ever benched somebody for wearing a t-shirt to class or sitting in the third row? PJ definitely has more specific requirements than most, but they aren't secrets to the players or to you as a donor. Whether it's PJ or Nick Saban, Kirby Smart or Mel Tucker (RIP), you can't let a donor dictate policy. When you invest your imaginary $1M you know what you are and aren't getting. You get the satisfaction of helping out a player and, hopefully, the team you support. You don't get a say in who gets to play.
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Good reply. Regarding the first part, I don't, I was only throwing that out there as a hypothetical. Using Evans seemed to make sense because people on the board have been speculating as to why he isn't playing, so I was tossing that out there as an example. If Evans isn't playing because he's not taking the weight room or practice seriously, then I'd chalk my NIL up as a loss.

Regarding the second part, I may have looked too lightly on how much control a coach needs. But then again, it is a changing landscape. Maybe we'll see in the next decade that teams with boosters calling more shots are pitiful, or maybe it's the new norm for being at the top of the sport?
 

Schnauzer said:
I feel like many of us have one foot out the door already. I just talked to my first season ticket holder that is actually giving his tickets up because of the extended advertising and resulting loss of in game, in stadium passion. If Bucky Irving becomes a trend, I’ll be voting with my feet long before I will be digging for the bottom of my pockets for NIL donations.

I already can’t imagine trying to be a fan of a MAC team. The power 5 is trending toward the power 2 and the Gophers are already a member of a conference poised to be one of two left with chairs in this game of musical chairs. It is awash in TV money. With all that wind at our back and we still become someone else’s AAA team? I’d be out. I suspect many others would lose interest too. Then let Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama, and Georgia negotiate their TV deals when the sport collapses upon itself. I suspect the new TV deals would be similar to AAA baseball tv deals. Good luck.
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This could happen. I really believe it. I love the Gophers & college football with a passion, but if we start losing our best players to better NIL deals at another school, no way am i hanging in there locally or nationally. HS football hasn't be ruined yet. The MIAC still seems like a great league. I'll adjust. I'd hate it, but that's how i'd feel. I'm sure there's many others like me out there, not just in MN but across the country.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's ridiculous. Then what's the point of having a coach? If winning was as easy as paying the most for a roster, then maybe you would have a point. But it's not, and if I was a school/coach and you were telling me that was the stipulation, I would tell you to go spend your money elsewhere.
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Good reply. And maybe that's what PJ would do, tell a person like me that even if I find the players, he can still bench them for any infraction he deems fit. That's his call. It just might not be as conducive to getting NIL players as what other schools are putting up with.

As an aside, and this was long before NIL, I remember hearing about Percy Harvin at Florida. He was in Urban Meyer's special circle so he'd be allowed to get away with crap that bad players couldn't. One day the strength and conditioning coach had the players run the stadium stairs. Percy wasn't having it and the next day they're playing basketball instead.

So to compete at the highest level, you just might have to let your best players play by different rules, and I don't think Fleck will tolerate that.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
Regarding the second part, I may have looked too lightly on how much control a coach needs. But then again, it is a changing landscape. Maybe we'll see in the next decade that teams with boosters calling more shots are pitiful, or maybe it's the new norm for being at the top of the sport?
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That's just it, though. I don't think there is any evidence that these boosters are "calling the shots" in the way you are suggesting. Do you think that there's a power five (or is it four now?) coach in the country who would be receptive to a booster saying "Coach, I know you think QB1 gives you best chance to win, but I have a six-figure NIL deal with QB3 and I expect him to start!"
 

tpbeight said:
This could happen. I really believe it. I love the Gophers & college football with a passion, but if we start losing our best players to better NIL deals at another school, no way am i hanging in there locally or nationally. HS football hasn't be ruined yet. The MIAC still seems like a great league. I'll adjust. I'd hate it, but that's how i'd feel. I'm sure there's many others like me out there, not just in MN but across the country.
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With ya 110%
 

disco said:
If you're in the rarefied air of a Phil Knight or Boone Pickens, it doesn't really matter. It's F-U money to those guys.


Brian Kelly gave $1 million to LSU's collective.
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School personnel (including coaches) can assist an NIL entity with fundraising through appearances or by providing autographed memorabilia but cannot donate cash directly to those entities.
 


2nd Degree Gopher said:
That's just it, though. I don't think there is any evidence that these boosters are "calling the shots" in the way you are suggesting. Do you think that there's a power five (or is it four now?) coach in the country who would be receptive to a booster saying "Coach, I know you think QB1 gives you best chance to win, but I have a six-figure NIL deal with QB3 and I expect him to start!"
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I can agree with this, although the last part is a little different from the case I was originally trying to make. If I paid $1M for D. Taylor to stay here and Zach Evans just simply beats him out for playing time, that's none of my business. I was more referring to if I paid $1M for Taylor and he was riding the bench because he didn't do the backpack thingy.
 

EG#9 said:
If you want to listen to the Fleck interview, it's available under "The Common Man Program" in your podcast app on you phone. Episode is titled Gopher Football Weekly with PJ Fleck.

Fleck gives another terrible answer on his 4th and 3 decision saying "going for it is out the door when it's 4th and 4" and again brings up a FG and claims it's too far to kick a FG in to the wind. Says he picked the clock (look how many plays Northwestern was able to run with that clock). Didn't want to give Northwestern a short field (it's the 37 yard line and you are going to play charmin soft coverage until they get past midfield regardless). There are things Fleck does well, but man this doesn't inspire confidence at all that his game management will ever improve.

Fleck again talks about Taylor "not sticking it in there" on the third and 2 before the decision to punt. Then says we also players who are gone that should be here playing right now but are playing at another school (Bucky Irving) because again NIL we didn't pay him we didn't pay him enough. That is the fact of life and I know we all laugh at it but that is a fact so if we want to keep players the NIL and all these guys we have they won't be here next year just making sure everyboydy understands our fans they won't be here so we'll be a Triple A ballclub for somebody else. That is the reality and the truth of the situation. So please contact Dinkytown Athletes or your local NIL store. Then Gaard interrupts and says DinkytownAthletes.Com and if you go to the game get a Parlor Burger because all the money goes towards NIL. Then Fleck jokes that they need somebody to order like 2 million burgers.

This was the worst possible time for Fleck to bring up NIL after an absolutely inexcusable loss to Northwestern. Anyone listening to this is immediately going to react like "you can't beat Northwestern and you want my money?" Also, Fleck seemed legitimately fired up like the OP said, but Grimm and Gaard were chuckling through his NIL rant making it seem unserious and then PJ himself makes a joke afterwards about the 2 million burgers. So this leaves your audience very confused: is this serious or not?

The failure to take advantage of an extremely weak B1G West in '20, '21, '22, and it looks like '23 to finish the job that should have been done in '19 is brutal for this program. Want NIL? beat f'ing Purdue and Iowa at home last year. Go to the B1G West title game and have that exposure on Fox with Gopher fans getting to travel to Indy for the biggest game of many of our lives to date. Then you play in your second big bowl game and end the season in the top 25. Similar things could be said about '21: beat Illinois and Bowling Green at home. None of this would have even required PJ's first road win over a top 25 team during his tenure and would have vastly increased the perception of this program both locally and nationally.

You know who else lost a player to Oregon? Iowa lost LB Jestin Jacobs to NIL just this offseason. The prior offseason they lost Charlie Jones to Purdue. The time to sound the alarm on NIL is while you are having success. Beat Louisiana, then beat Michigan in 2 weeks. Then go on a rant in your postgame on field interview on how "This is the last time we will ever hold this jug unless we get a competitive NIL program...I am doing all I can but Minnesotans I need your help". THAT resonates.
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Post of the day.
Why I am off the PJ train.
Missed a golden opportunity in 2019 and beyond and he just refuses to learn or make a change and now the door is shut.
 


GopherTheJugular said:
I can live with that part of it, like Ewers just leaving, etc. But for a coach to just bench a player for something non-football related...that would get me upset. I'd tell PJ, "hey, I kept the player here for ya, if you're not going to play the guys I fund with NIL then the NIL funding gets cut off."
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Your point is valid, but do we really want boosters, for lack of a better term, determining the depth chart? Hey, play my guy I paid for him. Coach says he is third string. I don't care play him anyway or money went to waste?

It's a shitty system that was bound to happen. In 5 years, without any corrections, it will be one of the biggest shit shows in history.
 

PMWinSTP said:
School personnel (including coaches) can assist an NIL entity with fundraising through appearances or by providing autographed memorabilia but cannot donate cash directly to those entities.
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Which why the post I quoted talked about the collective basically laundering the money.
 

So how did you hear about B Kelly $1M donation? If it was laundered by the collective?

Otherwise I was gonna say, why doesn’t Fleck donate to dinkytown collective?? Surely he has more money than he can spend in Minnesota.
 


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