Fleck is fired up on KFAN

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2nd Degree Gopher said:
You can expect whatever you like, I just don't think there are any coaches who would want you involved in their program if that was really your expectation.
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I mean, if all coaches were like PJ with his off the field schtick, I'd say you are 100% correct. But I'd think there would be plenty of coaches happy to have a (hypothetical) booster like me, with the only requirement being that you can't bench them for non-football stuff.

I mean, how many coaches really care what the players do on their own time, besides PJ? Maybe I'm way off, but I doubt any SEC coaches make their football players waive goodbye to some women's team, or some of the other nonsense that happens here.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
Shouldn’t the very fact that so many of us are concerned about NIL give us hope it will get figured out?
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I'd say no. A dozen or so Gopher fans on a message board isn't really going to move the needle on a national level.

SeaBee_Gopher said:
Does it really help TV if 80% of their current audience loses interest because their team has no chance?
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They are going to have to learn the hard way. We all see it, but the networks don't. They think they can pump up a "stacked" playoff of tOSU, Michigan, USC, Georgia, etc. every year and think most of us will still be interested. Not sure why they think that way, but I'd guess it's the runaway greed.
 

Ho Jon said:
Your point is valid, but do we really want boosters, for lack of a better term, determining the depth chart? Hey, play my guy I paid for him. Coach says he is third string. I don't care play him anyway or money went to waste?
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No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I've tried multiple times to explain my position - I guess some people just have their mind made up already when they read something?

My position has NOTHING to do with what the depth chart should look like. All I was trying to point out was that if I was funding players, I wouldn't want them on the bench FOR NON-FOOTBALL REASONS. Is that clear enough??? NON-FOOTBALL REASONS. No benching an NIL kid for NON-FOOTBALL REASONS.
 

St Paul campus is as good of a academic/research Ag school as any in the nation. Would hope MN Ag groups don’t feel poorly towards the U, that would be absurd.
 



GopherTheJugular said:
I mean, if all coaches were like PJ with his off the field schtick, I'd say you are 100% correct. But I'd think there would be plenty of coaches happy to have a (hypothetical) booster like me, with the only requirement being that you can't bench them for non-football stuff.

I mean, how many coaches really care what the players do on their own time, besides PJ? Maybe I'm way off, but I doubt any SEC coaches make their football players waive goodbye to some women's team, or some of the other nonsense that happens here.
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It doesn't really seem like we're going to reach a conclusion here. I think you mostly just don't like PJ and all his requirements for participation in the program. You think that they are silly, he thinks that they are important ("how you do one thing is how you do everything.") All coaches have things that they think are important, including things you call "non-football stuff." PJ might have more of these things than most, but they all have them.

Try this--let's say you take your imaginary $1M to Alabama and fund NIL for some stud running back. You hear that he's isn't playing Saturday because of something vulgar he said about Miss Terry (Nick's wife). You demand that he play because his comments are "non-football" related. You think Saban gives in to your demand?
 



swede2 said:
I would guess that the agricultural promotion groups in Iowa have a much higher affinity for the Iowa ag school than their counterparts in Minnesota.
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It was also because of the humor in the names of the players specfically.

Purchase Moore Hamman Bacon
 



2nd Degree Gopher said:
It doesn't really seem like we're going to reach a conclusion here.
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Well, we are doing a good job of drilling down on some aspects of it. I appreciate the good back and forth. I haven't been trying to be a jerk about it, neither have you. And you gave a good example at the end, which I'll get to shortly.

2nd Degree Gopher said:
I think you mostly just don't like PJ and all his requirements for participation in the program. You think that they are silly, he thinks that they are important ("how you do one thing is how you do everything.") All coaches have things that they think are important, including things you call "non-football stuff." PJ might have more of these things than most, but they all have them.
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It's 99% his requirements for participation in the program. Yes, I think they are silly - beyond silly actually. It's a good way to get kindergartners in line, but I think it should stop in middle school somewhere. Having to show up and wear a 75 pound backpack when I could be doing almost anything else with my free time as a college kid...I'd have probably entered the portal then and there if I was on the team.

2nd Degree Gopher said:
Try this--let's say you take your imaginary $1M to Alabama and fund NIL for some stud running back. You hear that he's isn't playing Saturday because of something vulgar he said about Miss Terry (Nick's wife). You demand that he play because his comments are "non-football" related. You think Saban gives in to your demand?
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That is a great question, as it's in the middle ground between football stuff and the non-football stuff PJ asks of his players. I guess I'd have to give in to coach here and tolerate the suspension.

If other coaches have them and there is this grey area where it would be impossible to draw a line in the sand, then I'll admit that it's not as cut and dry as I was thinking. I just had the impression PJ was way over the top than most. Maybe my impression is wrong? I never played, nor really knew anyone, who played college sports. Maybe you guys do/did and know that most coaches are kinda similar to PJ?
 

MplsGopher said:
@theTurning we need to get to either conferences or schools paying the players directly. At least then it can be fair. Enough of this scam NIL crap.

NFL players do NIL endorsements but it doesn’t matter because their salary is what matters.
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Exactly. The money pizza ranch paid to Kirk Cousins isn't anywhere close enough to sway him to change teams, for example.
 


Breakin' The Plane said:
I'm god awful at math, but I'm just sitting here wondering, "Where does all the money go?"
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Facilities, equipment, coach salaries, and paying for all the non-revenue sports.

It's not like profits from athletics are going into the university general budget.

If we start paying players like a minor league, it could be the end of non-revenue sports. Either that or coach salaries will take a big cut.
 



They find things to spend it on. Somehow, 25 years ago before all this TV was here, they managed to survive.
 

Word said:
Way more than you realize. I think you're really out of touch with reality.
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Yes. Mason has talked about this on his weekly segment with Barrerio.

If an NFL player screws up - let's say gets a DWI - it reflects mainly on the player and their reputation.

If a college player does it? It reflects on the player, but also on the coach and the school. It's a whole different type of burden.
 

theTurning said:
The fact that universities with billion-dollar endowments and conferences with billion-dollar television contracts expect fans to pony up and pay the players is beyond absurd.
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Boosters have ALWAYS been the ones paying players at big time programs, and have always been willing to do so. They're also the ones who pay those enormous buyouts to fire the coach after a 7-6 season to bring in someone new. This is just a continuation of that.

The reason the schools don't want to pay the players out of TV money, is that they then become employees and that's a can of worms the schools don't want to deal with.
 

MplsGopher said:
They find things to spend it on. Somehow, 25 years ago before all this TV was here, they managed to survive.
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Part of the cost correlates with the payer and whether they are spending their own or somebody else’s money. To be a fly on the wall during contractor and vendor selection discussions…

I believe the 7 year old Vikings stadium A/V room alone was deemed to be require $14M per reports, part of the $280M maintenance plan over the next 10 years. Hey, can’t blame them for trying if nobody cares.
 

I didn't read all the previous 10 pages but Minnesota's NIL deficit has to be a matter of priorities vs. ability.

Minnesota is the wealthiest state in the Midwest by household income. (look at all the blue states)

Minnesota makes a lot more money than all the SEC states. The average Minnesotan makes about 40-50% more money than the average Alabaman. This is part of why the Big Ten TV contract is more valuable than the SEC contract.

I realize I'm comparing incomes for average people versus the donor class, but Minnesota also has a much stronger corporate base per capita than any of the SEC states. The Twin Cities have more Fortune 1000 companies than the Miami, Tampa Bay, Orlando, and Jacksonville metro areas put together, but look who has all the NIL.

So why won't Minnesotans shell out for NIL? I get the pro effect - a local corporation will sign a promo deal with Justin Jefferson instead of Chris Autman-Bell, but that doesn't explain all of it.

Is it chicken and egg? The team must win big for wallets to open, but can't win big without the $$?
 

@disco it has absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to “deal with” student-athletes being employees.

These schools employ thousands of students already. Lab workers, TA’s, etc. They have all the machinery in place to employ students as employees.


It’s far simpler than that: they just want to keep all the TV money for themselves. They’re busy using it to build as much facilities as they can muster before the party is over. 30 years from now, when all the people have turned over, those will still be standing. No matter how many titles they win or don’t win.
 

fmlizard said:
I didn't read all the previous 10 pages but Minnesota's NIL deficit has to be a matter of priorities vs. ability.

Minnesota is the wealthiest state in the Midwest by household income. (look at all the blue states)

Minnesota makes a lot more money than all the SEC states. The average Minnesotan makes about 40-50% more money than the average Alabaman. This is part of why the Big Ten TV contract is more valuable than the SEC contract.

I realize I'm comparing incomes for average people versus the donor class, but Minnesota also has a much stronger corporate base than any of the SEC states. The Twin Cities have more Fortune 1000 companies than the Miami, Tampa Bay, Orlando, and Jacksonville metro areas put together, but look who has all the NIL.

So why won't Minnesotans shell out for NIL? I get the pro effect - a local corporation will sign a promo deal with Justin Jefferson instead of Chris Autman-Bell, but that doesn't explain all of it.

Is it chicken and egg? The team must win big for wallets to open, but can't win big without the $$?
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I’ll speculate most high roller donors have privately held business interests and answer to themselves alone. Their leisure money could go back into their businesses, fund other investment opportunities, or they could dabble in semi-pro athletics and help mold the fortunes of their favorite team which is probably light years more interesting to them than job A, B, C at that stage of their lives.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
I’ll speculate most high roller donors have privately held business interests and answer to themselves alone. Their leisure money could go back into their businesses, fund other investment opportunities, or they could dabble in semi-pro athletics and help mold the fortunes of their favorite team which is probably light years more interesting to them than job A, B, C at that stage of their lives.
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I think this is spot on.
I suspect what is also true, is that while the average Minnesotan is better off than the average person in Alabama, that doesn't mean there aren't rich individuals in Alabama, and those that are rich are far more tied into their relationship with Alabama or Auburn (and college football specifically) than someone who went to the U.
 

theTurning said:
The fact that universities with billion-dollar endowments and conferences with billion-dollar television contracts expect fans to pony up and pay the players is beyond absurd.
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It's like if the Vikings had the Wilfs walk around the upper deck at the next game and pass the hat for Justin Jefferson's next contract, otherwise he's leaving for the Packers the morning after the last game.
 

MplsGopher said:
@disco it has absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to “deal with” student-athletes being employees.

These schools employ thousands of students already. Lab workers, TA’s, etc. They have all the machinery in place to employ students as employees.


It’s far simpler than that: they just want to keep all the TV money for themselves. They’re busy using it to build as much facilities as they can muster before the party is over. 30 years from now, when all the people have turned over, those will still be standing. No matter how many titles they win or don’t win.
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They don't want players to be subject to the FLSA.
 

That’s not a problem at all. Graduate assistants can only earn a maximum of 20hrs/week pay at the U, for example. There are no legal issues with that.


I think perhaps their big worry is: OK we start up the precedent of paying college athletes as employees, then the TV money dries up in 15 years, but the precedent is set, now we have to pay out of our own pocket.

To me how you “solve” that is simple: do away with the “traditional” benefits that S-A’s receive, scholarships. You just get paid a salary. You then have a school bill like every other student that you’re responsible for paying. You’re on your own to manage your expenses out of your salary.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Gopher pull tabs in every bar, sold right next to the new Gopher beer tap. Boom.

Heck, figure out how do a Gopher meat raffle in every northland bar and the players would be rich beyond their imaginations. :)
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This is what Dinkytown Athletes should focus on.
 

Isn’t it kinda sad that at the U, we have to essentially organize a glorified bake sale just to help pay the athletes something comparable with our peers?
 

disco said:
History says this won't happen. People will literally watch almost any college football game on TV. This is why there are so many bowl games and why they get better ratings than the Stanley Cup finals.



It was also about money and paying players. Always. It just wasn't in the open.
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You might be right, none of us really know, but I disagree. I think this get figured out in a way that keeps things at least semi-competitive as it is now. As many posters have said, the power programs don't want to lose the middle tier teams like us because they get to beat us (almost) every year and that makes their fans happy. If they just beat up on just each other, they'd all lose a lot more. It's better if our teams are at least somewhat competitive. It's no fun if they beat us 70-0. Almost no one wants to watch that (unless it's Oregon destroying Colorado) and it's not good for ratings. I'm pretty sure ratings usually plummet when one team is pounding the crap out of another. I know I switch to something else. As I said on a previous post, I recently watched South Dakota State beat Drake 70-7 at Target Field and it was very boring. When top national teams beat us 30-7 it keeps things semi-competitive which is better for TV ratings and gives fans like us a ray of hope to stay tuned in. It is often even a close game at halftime.

Most professional leagues are trying hard to expand into new markets to attract new fans, no pro sports leagues are contracting on purpose. Making teams like ours more like AAA is akin to contracting for me. High level college football is already in a ton of markets with home teams, stadiums and a certain amount of almost guaranteed fans. Why mess up this set up?

Well, all we have to do is wait and see. No offense, but I hope you're wrong!:)
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I'm god awful at math, but I'm just sitting here wondering, "Where does all the money go?"
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I think it goes back to this: people, companies, or football teams will spend the money they have available. If you give them $5-million, they will find ways to spend $5-million. If you give them $20-million, they will find ways to spend $20-million.

facilities, equipment, support staff, etc. go online and find a complete listing of the football staff. (not the coaches) 48 people listed - analysts, quality control, grad assistants, trainers, nutrition, equipment staff, communications, marketing, tutors, sports psychology, and a social media strategist. and that does not include the whole recruiting structure. costs money to fly coaches around the country to recruit HS kids or transfers.

so, the TV money is basically spoken for. that means NIL - either the 'legal' NIL of Dinkytown Athletes, or the "pay-for-play" NIL - has to come from outside the program.

and again, the problem is not the 'legal' NIL - the problem is Rich Dudes throwing bags of money at recruits. that is the new arms race in college FB. If the other program has more Rich Dudes than you, they're going to outspend you for recruits and/or entice your players to leave because the other school can pay more. SMU boosters came up with $100-Million to basically buy SMU's way into the ACC. that ain't happening at the U of MN.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
It's no fun if they beat us 70-0. Almost no one wants to watch that (unless it's Oregon destroying Colorado) and it's not good for ratings. I'm pretty sure ratings usually plummet when one team is pounding the crap out of another. I know I switch to something else.
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You see this effect just to our NW. Interest in NDSU football has waned a bit in the last few years in part because of the dominance of the team. People have tired of going to the game when the outcome, with a few exceptions, is as predetermined as pro wrestling.
 

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