Fleck: "I think we can be a really good football team next year."

Donate To GopherHole
Bob_Loblaw said:
I have nothing against Mason. I think Mase and Kill are pretty close.

Again, you can keep talking about Brew's tenure like it wasn't a catastrophic failure but you might be doing it on the wrong board. Many of us were sitting in the stands as we were getting trounced by FCS and MAC schools. It was a disaster.

Yes - he beat some cans in the non-conference to get to 6 wins. He won 22% of his Big 10 games.

If your argument is that Kill doesn't deserve much credit because the Brew years weren't so bad. . .yep, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
Kill doesn’t deserve to be on Mount Rushmore because kill’s results aren’t that good unless you consider Brewster the worst coach of all time. Which I don’t. He was merely bad.
 

Some guy said:
Kill doesn’t deserve to be on Mount Rushmore because kill’s results aren’t that good unless you consider Brewster the worst coach of all time. Which I don’t. He was merely bad.
Click to expand...

Mt. Rushmore of what?

Brewster was catastrophically bad and then Kill (following him) accomplished something that hadn't been done at the U in more than 35 years.
 

Unfortunately the full extent of what Kill would have accomplished is unknown due to his health issues. Mason at least we know exactly what he was capable of.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Mt. Rushmore of what?

Brewster was catastrophically bad and then Kill (following him) accomplished something that hadn't been done at the U in more than 35 years.
Click to expand...
gopher football coaches

What did kill accomplish that hadn’t been accomplished?

jerry kill had a 3 year stretch at .500 in the conference

2013, 2014, 2015 (before he stopped coaching)

so did Mason.
2003, 2004, 2005

What did kill do?

Do we get to give Brewster credit for kills second year if we get to give kill credit for claeys second year?
 

I am pretty sure I argued that Claeys was never more than an interim coach and you yourself may have argued against me...now you want to credit kill with his wins?
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I think this gets back to the old argument we had all the time during the Kill years -
what is the ceiling for the MN FB program?

Is MN a program that should be 'happy' with an 8-4 season - or is the program capable of being a program that wins 9 or 10 games on a fairly regular basis?

was 2019 an outlier? how often should we expect MN to have a season like that - every 3-4 years?
every 5-6 years? or once a decade?

are you 'better' off with a program that wins 8 games almost every year, or are you 'better' off with a program that might win 10 or 11 games one year, and drop back to 6 or 7 wins the next year? In other words, would you rather be consistently good, or are you willing to accept some down years if the up years are higher?
Click to expand...
We should be as good as UW.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Mt. Rushmore of what?

Brewster was catastrophically bad and then Kill (following him) accomplished something that hadn't been done at the U in more than 35 years.
Click to expand...
Don't feel like you need to spend lot of time trying to convince him...he really is just "Some guy".
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yes, we finished .500 or better in the Big 10 a total of 4 times in the 35 years prior to Kill. We finished .500 or better 4 times under Kill/Claeys.

There is nothing to pretend, it was an elite turnaround of a program.
Click to expand...
I would not call it elite. That diminishes the coaches that did a great deal better. Also, there is no age limitation on great coaches. Experience helps, but great is great pretty damn early. Many coaches never win more as they get older. They simply were not great.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I'm saying 15 years is plenty of experience to be successful on the same level. But you knew that.
Click to expand...

I didn't say Fleck couldn't be successful at this poin in his career,, in fact I pointed out that he was extremely successful last year.

My point was that he's made mistakes that he probably won't make 5 years from now or 10 years from now.
 



Some guy said:
gopher football coaches

What did kill accomplish that hadn’t been accomplished?

jerry kill had a 3 year stretch at .500 in the conference

2013, 2014, 2015 (before he stopped coaching)

so did Mason.
2003, 2004, 2005

What did kill do?

Do we get to give Brewster credit for kills second year if we get to give kill credit for claeys second year?
Click to expand...

Now you're just being silly.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Yes, we finished .500 or better in the Big 10 a total of 4 times in the 35 years prior to Kill. We finished .500 or better 4 times under Kill/Claeys.

There is nothing to pretend, it was an elite turnaround of a program.
Click to expand...

The Big Ten changed just a little when Kill took over compared to when Mason was the coach. It's easier to finish over .500 when you play more conference games, and add Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska to the schedule.

Mason took over a far worse situation than Kill, they hadn't won more than 4 games in 6 years. Alvarez had already established Wisconsin, Purdue was really good under Tiller, and Ferentz was hired in Mason's 3rd season. Plus they had to play Ohio St, Penn St, and Michigan most seasons. Even Illinois went to the Sugar Bowl in '01. The B1G was loaded when Mase was here.
 




MaxyJR1 said:
And Alvarez took until year 10 to get to a winning record in B1G play. He went to the Rose Bowl in year three and didn't win double digits again until year 9. He has a losing season between year 3 and 9. Alvarez was 64-61 in conference play in 16 seasons.

Found all of this through this guy on Twitter.
Click to expand...
It's an absolute joke to be talking about letting go of PJ. Panic? At that point we're just getting ridiculous.

Gophs are in a great place. Looking forward to hopefully many years with PJ at the helm.
 

skiumah1 said:
It's an absolute joke to be talking about letting go of PJ. Panic? At that point we're just getting ridiculous.

Gophs are in a great place. Looking forward to hopefully many years with PJ at the helm.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is anyone seriously calling for Fleck's head. Some are getting a little restless but nobody rational is calling for him to be let go at this point.

At least I think that is still the case. This thread has devolved into another Mason/Brewster/Kill/Fleck battle. Had actually enjoyed the fact that those stupid arguments had seemingly become a thing of the past and then it happened again in this thread.
 

60's Guy said:
I want to like a lot of what you are saying but we don’t know how all this shakes out yet. Oliver, Dunlap, Faalele and Teague would all be very helpful additions but are they healthy and will they return?
Lose no starters? Bateman and St Juste are gone. We don’t know how many more will follow. Seth Green pretty big part of the team, will he return? Treadway, Geary, Justus Harris, Schad, Ko Kieft, P. Howard, Conner Olson and Sam Schluetter were all seniors and would have to decide to stay and be welcomed back. Our O-Line could be awesome with experienced people or feature a lot of new guys.
Really too early to know.
Durr news is great news.
But, say we go with 100 scholarships next year. We think that would help but most others will have 100 scholarships too. We’d need to win the transfer game to be significantly better.
Click to expand...

Time to get that grad degree paid for and play spectacularly on the OL.
 


MNVCGUY said:
I don't think there is anyone seriously calling for Fleck's head. Some are getting a little restless but nobody rational is calling for him to be let go at this point.

At least I think that is still the case. This thread has devolved into another Mason/Brewster/Kill/Fleck battle. Had actually enjoyed the fact that those stupid arguments had seemingly become a thing of the past and then it happened again in this thread.
Click to expand...
It is amazing that calling kill good not great and overrated by many gets people so riled up. Kind of fun.
 

I could easily see us fighting to make a bowl game next year with the way Northwestern, Indiana, and even Colorado looked. Ohio St is Ohio St, Iowa and Wisconsin we seem to not be able to beat, and at Purdue isn't a sure win.

Everyone saying 8 wins is going to be a disappointment...eeeeek.
 

tmvander said:
I could easily see us fighting to make a bowl game next year with the way Northwestern, Indiana, and even Colorado looked. Ohio St is Ohio St, Iowa and Wisconsin we seem to not be able to beat, and at Purdue isn't a sure win.

Everyone saying 8 wins is going to be a disappointment...eeeeek.
Click to expand...

The Gophers need to rip off a few years of 8/9/10 wins before 8 wins can be a disappointment. I like the way we're building, but the folks who expect 9+ wins every year are a bit out of touch (IMO). It's hard to get to that level in a hurry.
 

tmvander said:
I could easily see us fighting to make a bowl game next year with the way Northwestern, Indiana, and even Colorado looked. Ohio St is Ohio St, Iowa and Wisconsin we seem to not be able to beat, and at Purdue isn't a sure win.

Everyone saying 8 wins is going to be a disappointment...eeeeek.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Those saying 8 will be disappointed when we win 9 or 10 and their whining falls on deaf ears
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The Gophers need to rip off a few years of 8/9/10 wins before 8 wins can be a disappointment. I like the way we're building, but the folks who expect 9+ wins every year are a bit out of touch (IMO). It's hard to get to that level in a hurry.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

I think we certainly could win 9 next year...but we could also win 5-6 and while that would be disappointing it wouldn’t signal the end times.

It’s hard to win. Everyone is trying to do it.

two good coaches, Brohm and Frost, have yet to have an 8 win season at their respective schools.
 

Some guy said:
I agree with this.

I think we certainly could win 9 next year...but we could also win 5-6 and while that would be disappointing it wouldn’t signal the end times.

It’s hard to win. Everyone is trying to do it.

two good coaches, Brohm and Frost, have yet to have an 8 win season at their respective schools.
Click to expand...
There will be a lot of people saying we need a new coach next year if we go 6-6 which isn't unrealistic. Our crossover games are two top 10 caliber teams and a team that just beat us this year. One non conference game is on the road vs a team that was just ranked last week.
 

tmvander said:
There will be a lot of people saying we need a new coach next year if we go 6-6 which isn't unrealistic. Our crossover games are two top 10 caliber teams and a team that just beat us this year. One non conference game is on the road vs a team that was just ranked last week.
Click to expand...

There will always be the people that react only to the record but really it depends on how you get to a record. There is so much more that goes into a season, were you decimated by injuries, did you avoid bad losses, did the team play well and just get beat or did you play poorly and lose....

Only way I could see Fleck being in any danger of losing his job after next year is if we fall completely off the table and only win a couple of games or deal with massive off the field issues.

If we really struggle next year however his seat might be a little warmer heading into 2022. I will be surprised if that is the case though as I think there is going to be a lot of returning talent on this team and we will be in the mix for the West title. Might not win it because there are a lot of quality teams in the West but hopefully our days of being an also ran are in the rear view mirror for the most part.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I think this is the first time since Mason that we will have a season with expectations to compete if not win every game.
Click to expand...

Huh? What about 2019? We were certainly competitive in every game with the exception of the 2nd half against wisconsin, and that game was predicted to be close.

Also, we will likely be 18-20 point underdogs in the first 2021 game against OSU. The 2021 OSU squad will likely be the best team we've faced in many years.

I agree with you that the 2021 squad will be very good and in a great position to win the West, but I'd be absolutely floored if we're competitive with OSU, let alone beat them.
 

tmvander said:
There will be a lot of people saying we need a new coach next year if we go 6-6 which isn't unrealistic. Our crossover games are two top 10 caliber teams and a team that just beat us this year. One non conference game is on the road vs a team that was just ranked last week.
Click to expand...
At the same time,
Ohio state won’t be as good next year (even though they’ll still be good)
I don’t feel Indiana will finish top 3 in their division next
MNVCGUY said:
There will always be the people that react only to the record but really it depends on how you get to a record. There is so much more that goes into a season, were you decimated by injuries, did you avoid bad losses, did the team play well and just get beat or did you play poorly and lose....

Only way I could see Fleck being in any danger of losing his job after next year is if we fall completely off the table and only win a couple of games or deal with massive off the field issues.

If we really struggle next year however his seat might be a little warmer heading into 2022. I will be surprised if that is the case though as I think there is going to be a lot of returning talent on this team and we will be in the mix for the West title. Might not win it because there are a lot of quality teams in the West but hopefully our days of being an also ran are in the rear view mirror for the most part.
Click to expand...
record is really important but in a lot of ways it’s not a good way to make a choice.
Record is uncontrollable.
Make choices on coaches by looking at coaches handle what they can control.

Record is a symptom of a system not the system. While the symptoms can tell you if something is bad, it doesn’t identify the problem.

This is why some coaches with bad records get brought back and some coaches with national championships get fired shortly thereafter.


Larry Coker - national champion fired 5 years later
Gene chizik - national champion fired 3 years later

Gary Patterson - 35-28 the last 5 years and widely considered one of the best coaches in the country
 

dpodoll68 said:
Huh? What about 2019? We were certainly competitive in every game with the exception of the 2nd half against wisconsin, and that game was predicted to be close.

Also, we will likely be 18-20 point underdogs in the first 2021 game against OSU. The 2021 OSU squad will likely be the best team we've faced in many years.

I agree with you that the 2021 squad will be very good and in a great position to win the West, but I'd be absolutely floored if we're competitive with OSU, let alone beat them.
Click to expand...
Who is Ohio state’s quarterback next year?

We won’t be favored and everything you said is likely correct...but next year’s Ohio state’s team is probably their worst team since Pre-Meyer IMO (and I’d still pick them to win the conference though...wow that’s depressing)
 

Some guy said:
Who is Ohio state’s quarterback next year?

We won’t be favored and everything you said is likely correct...but next year’s Ohio state’s team is probably their worst team since Pre-Meyer IMO (and I’d still pick them to win the conference though...wow that’s depressing)
Click to expand...

Of course the QB is important, but when you're OSU and have (at least) 25-30 NFL players on your roster every season, you don't need a great QB to dominate the Big Ten. You're probably right that the 2021 version will probably be their "worst" team in a while, but all that means is that they'll be favored by 15 in every conference game instead of by 25. Even in the Indiana game, which was against a fellow top 10 team, they were favored by 20.5.
 

@MNVCGUY, @Some guy

Agree with both of you about record. However, you guys have been here long enough. Watch this board and fanbase unravel if we don't win the West yet alone 8 games.
 

Some guy said:
Who is Ohio state’s quarterback next year?

We won’t be favored and everything you said is likely correct...but next year’s Ohio state’s team is probably their worst team since Pre-Meyer IMO (and I’d still pick them to win the conference though...wow that’s depressing)
Click to expand...

ourlads.com shows Jack Miller Fr as the backup then Gunner Hoak Gr.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom