Fleck: "I think we can be a really good football team next year."

[btowngopher]

I don’t think our coaching, development and retention sucks. Except for retention with the 2018 class. But I don’t think the biggest PJ supporter would say it’s better than NW, Wisky or Iowa right now. Our recruiting has improved dramatically from where it had been. Unfortunately, our rivals have also improved in recent years, so we haven’t closed any gap.

Iowa seems to be having a little bit of retention issues lately, but yeah coaching and development I would say we’ve been behind them or even at best. I think even with their improved recruiting we have been closer than previously. Also have to keep in mind you have to look at five years of classes, not just one. So how things trend with recruiting the next few years should say a lot as to whether Iowa and Wisconsin have truly upped their recruiting and will consistently stay there. I’m pretty confident that Fleck has upped ours to a fairly consistent place.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I will say this. I think MN has as good of a shot as anyone in the B1G to win the conference outside of Ohio State next year.

I will go as far as to say that MN is the West team that is most likely to win it and dethrone tOSU.

 

[salzie]

I might also add he is 1-7 against Iowa and Wisconsin - I’m skeptical that he can turn this around - just saying

I think he can and will do better with those rivals.

Not going to make excuses, it's not been good vs those two and he needs to do better.

 

[MplsGopher]

I will say this. I think MN has as good of a shot as anyone in the B1G to win the conference outside of Ohio State next year.

I will go as far as to say that MN is the West team that is most likely to win it and dethrone tOSU.

If 2020 had been a normal year, I would've said that about 2020.

Given what we saw this year -- yes even with the inherent limitations of that -- I no longer believe it about 2021. Hope I am wrong!

 

[MaxyJR1]

If 2020 had been a normal year, I would've said that about 2020.

Given what we saw this year -- yes even with the inherent limitations of that -- I no longer believe it about 2021. Hope I am wrong!

I think this team has too much talent coming back on both sides of the ball to not believe it can't happen. The defense got better and in the end was playing pretty sound defense with young guys finally getting it. Excited about the DL.

Sanford will have a full off-season to implement more of the TE's and two back sets. Young WR's showed promise.

I think this is the first time since Mason that we will have a season with expectations to compete if not win every game. That's why we play them.

Only thing that would temper my expectations is if too many guys choose not to return on the OL.

 

[Fan of Ray Christensen]

Paul Chryst is 55 years old, Tom Allen is 50, Jeff Brohm is 49. Jerry Kill was 50 when he took over as the Gopher HC.

Fleck just turned 40. Kirk Ferentz got his first GA gig in 1977, so he's been coaching since before Fleck was born.

Much like Pitino on the basketball side, when you hire someone that young, you're inevitably going to have some on-the-job training.

Unfortunately Pitino has yet to have a break-through season, and I've lost hope that he ever will. Fleck on the other hand, had a breakout season last year. There are no guarantees, but I'm confident that Fleck will continue to improve, and so will the program.

 

[GFBfan]

If you don’t think we have closed the gap you must have missed the best season in the last 40 years last year.

Yes they lost to wisconsin and Iowa....but the reason Wisconsin and Iowa are so good is because they rarely lose to bad teams.

Minnesota has lost to 2 bad teams in 2 seasons (20 Maryland and 20 Michigan)
That is the fewest losses to bad teams in a two year stretch in my memory.

Wisconsin this year was a bad team as well, so make it 3.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Paul Chryst is 55 years old, Tom Allen is 50, Jeff Brohm is 49. Jerry Kill was 50 when he took over as the Gopher HC.

Fleck just turned 40. Kirk Ferentz got his first GA gig in 1977, so he's been coaching since before Fleck was born.

Much like Pitino on the basketball side, when you hire someone that young, you're inevitably going to have some on-the-job training.

Unfortunately Pitino has yet to have a break-through season, and I've lost hope that he ever will. Fleck on the other hand, had a breakout season last year. There are no guarantees, but I'm confident that Fleck will continue to improve, and so will the program.

Fleck has been coaching for 15 years.

 

[Some guy]

Wisconsin this year was a bad team as well, so make it 3.

Wisconsin was top 20 in the country 4 weeks ago.
Wisconsin doesn’t have a loss to a team not in the top 15
Wisconsin is 13th in sagarin
Wisconsin is 8th in FPI

I’m not going to pretend Wisconsin is good.
You should stop pretending they are bad.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I think this gets back to the old argument we had all the time during the Kill years -
what is the ceiling for the MN FB program?

Is MN a program that should be 'happy' with an 8-4 season - or is the program capable of being a program that wins 9 or 10 games on a fairly regular basis?

was 2019 an outlier? how often should we expect MN to have a season like that - every 3-4 years?
every 5-6 years? or once a decade?

are you 'better' off with a program that wins 8 games almost every year, or are you 'better' off with a program that might win 10 or 11 games one year, and drop back to 6 or 7 wins the next year? In other words, would you rather be consistently good, or are you willing to accept some down years if the up years are higher?

 

[MNVCGUY]

Wisconsin this year was a bad team as well, so make it 3.

Some guy laid it out pretty good but that was not a bad Wisconsin team we lost to. Their defense is really really good. Their offense has struggled in recent weeks and was missing some pieces against us to compound it even more but they don't qualify as a bad team.

It was a very beatable Wisconsin team but it wasn't a bad Wisconsin team. There is a difference.

 

[Some guy]

I think this gets back to the old argument we had all the time during the Kill years -
what is the ceiling for the MN FB program?

Is MN a program that should be 'happy' with an 8-4 season - or is the program capable of being a program that wins 9 or 10 games on a fairly regular basis?

was 2019 an outlier? how often should we expect MN to have a season like that - every 3-4 years?
every 5-6 years? or once a decade?

are you 'better' off with a program that wins 8 games almost every year, or are you 'better' off with a program that might win 10 or 11 games one year, and drop back to 6 or 7 wins the next year? In other words, would you rather be consistently good, or are you willing to accept some down years if the up years are higher?

What you just proposed is a false choice fallacy
There is no such thing as 11 win seasons mixed with 6-7 win season OR 8-9 win seasons every year. You’d want to build a program the same either way.

.



The goal for any program should be to win championships by continuing to try to get better as a team and as a program every week and every year.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I think this gets back to the old argument we had all the time during the Kill years -
what is the ceiling for the MN FB program?

Is MN a program that should be 'happy' with an 8-4 season - or is the program capable of being a program that wins 9 or 10 games on a fairly regular basis?

was 2019 an outlier? how often should we expect MN to have a season like that - every 3-4 years?
every 5-6 years? or once a decade?

are you 'better' off with a program that wins 8 games almost every year, or are you 'better' off with a program that might win 10 or 11 games one year, and drop back to 6 or 7 wins the next year? In other words, would you rather be consistently good, or are you willing to accept some down years if the up years are higher?

The last one, 1000% the last one.

 

[Taji34]

So, here's my assessment of the season:

Losing 7 starters on the defense hurt a lot. I thought we'd have players ready to step up right away, and I still think we would have if there had been a regular offseason, but we didn't. I believe the offseason, or rather lack of it, played a big part here. What makes me think this? Well, nearing the end of the season the defense seemed to start to gel, and with an offseason (plus OOC games, I suppose) they would have had far more time to gel prior to conference play. This is a large part of our OT loses to Wisconsin and Maryland, and how close our win vs Purdue was I believe. I don't know how many starters from this group are graduating/declaring early but I don't think too many? That and hopefully the return of Braelen Oliver should help the defense do better from the get go next year.

Having a new OC caused the offense to step back, even if we ran a very similar system. Again, the lack of the off season exacerbated this. As was pointed out somewhere else, a lot of teams that had a new OC or DC had issues this year. The closest example is Penn State, we were in similar situations last year with rankings and total wins, and we both took a huge step backward with new OCs. This should hopefully be normalized come next year with a regular off season.

All in all, I don't think we lose too much talent this year so next year most starters should have a decent amount of meaningful in-game experience playing with each other.

 

[MaxyJR1]

So, here's my assessment of the season:

Losing 7 starters on the defense hurt a lot. I thought we'd have players ready to step up right away, and I still think we would have if there had been a regular offseason, but we didn't. I believe the offseason, or rather lack of it, played a big part here. What makes me think this? Well, nearing the end of the season the defense seemed to start to gel, and with an offseason (plus OOC games, I suppose) they would have had far more time to gel prior to conference play. This is a large part of our OT loses to Wisconsin and Maryland, and how close our win vs Purdue was I believe. I don't know how many starters from this group are graduating/declaring early but I don't think too many? That and hopefully the return of Braelen Oliver should help the defense do better from the get go next year.

Having a new OC caused the offense to step back, even if we ran a very similar system. Again, the lack of the off season exacerbated this. As was pointed out somewhere else, a lot of teams that had a new OC or DC had issues this year. The closest example is Penn State, we were in similar situations last year with rankings and total wins, and we both took a huge step backward with new OCs. This should hopefully be normalized come next year with a regular off season.

All in all, I don't think we lose too much talent this year so next year most starters should have a decent amount of meaningful in-game experience playing with each other.

Agree. Really hard to judge much on this year. Look at the Big Ten. 10 of 14 teams were .500 or below. Lots of parity with teams riding the roller coaster all season.

 

[Some guy]

Agree. Really hard to judge much on this year. Look at the Big Ten. 10 of 14 teams were .500 or below. Lots of parity with teams riding the roller coaster all season.

Correct. Nobody bad this year. Nobody that good this year either outside of Ohio state.

Iowa was clear 4th this year. IMO was worse than they were last year when they were 5-6 with Michigan.

I think this year’s Indiana and northwestern teams were worse on the field than last years Michigan and Iowa teams. Indiana got 2nd in the conference with a team that would’ve gotten 7th last year IMO

 

[Fan of Ray Christensen]

Fleck has been coaching for 15 years.

My point was that Fleck has less coaching experience than most of his counterparts, and in some cases, a lot less experience. But you knew that.

Are you saying that after 15 years, Fleck should have caught up to Chryst and Ferentz and have it all figured out?

 

[PMWinSTP]

My point was that Fleck has less coaching experience than most of his counterparts, and in some cases, a lot less experience. But you knew that.

Are you saying that after 15 years, Fleck should have caught up to Chryst and Ferentz and have it all figured out?

I'm saying 15 years is plenty of experience to be successful on the same level. But you knew that.

 

[Hates Monikers]

I'm thinking about my own expectations for the Gopher football program. I was trying to find a model of what I'd like us to be. As a starting point, I'm going to consider Iowa.

I was going to compare Ferentz to Fleck, but then I thought maybe a better comparison would be Hayden Fry to Fleck, since Ferentz was an assistant under Fry, and was simply re-building on the foundation Fry had already established at Iowa. Fry, on the other hand, had to go in and build a new 'culture', which seems more similar to Fleck's task at Minnesota.

Hayden Fry is seen as an icon at Iowa. He's their Barry Alvarez.

Here's Hayden Fry's record at Iowa, season-by-season:

1979: 5-6, 4-4
1980: 4-7, 4-4
1981: 8-4, 6-2 — Rose Bowl (L)
1982: 8-4, 6-2 — Peach Bowl (W)
1983: 9-3, 7-2 — Gator Bowl (L)
1984: 8-4-1, 5-3-1 — Freedom Bowl (W)
1985: 10-2, 7-1 — Rose Bowl (L)
1986: 9-3, 5-3 — Holiday Bowl (W)
1987: 10-3, 6-2 — Holiday Bowl (W)
1988: 6-4-3, 4-1-3 — Peach Bowl (L)
1989: 5-6, 3-5
1990: 8-4, 6-2 — Rose Bowl (L)
1991: 10-1-1, 7-1 — Holiday Bowl (T)
1992: 5-7, 4-4
1993: 6-6, 3-5 — Alamo Bowl (L)
1994: 5-5-1, 3-4-1
1995: 8-4, 4-4 — Sun Bowl (W)
1996: 9-3, 6-2 — Alamo Bowl (W)
1997: 7-5, 4-4 — Sun Bowl (L)
1998: 3-8, 2-6

So... even for a legendary coach, you're going to see ups and downs.

I'm willing to live with ups and downs, but Fry coached Iowa for 20 years and only had four seasons where he was worse than .500 in conference games. That's damn near all up for us.

 

[MplsGopher]

The last one, 1000% the last one.

I would think almost anyone, whose job doesn't depend on it (ie the coach and AD), would pick the same.

The occasional euphoric high of a championship (or near it), and memories for a lifetime, over being always good but never great (*cough* Vikings).

 

[MaxyJR1]

I'm willing to live with ups and downs, but Fry coached Iowa for 20 years and only had four seasons where he was worse than .500 in conference games. That's damn near all up for us.

And Alvarez took until year 10 to get to a winning record in B1G play. He went to the Rose Bowl in year three and didn't win double digits again until year 9. He has a losing season between year 3 and 9. Alvarez was 64-61 in conference play in 16 seasons.

Found all of this through this guy on Twitter.

 

[Word]

I will say this. I think MN has as good of a shot as anyone in the B1G to win the conference outside of Ohio State next year.

I will go as far as to say that MN is the West team that is most likely to win it and dethrone tOSU.

You're either on something or onto something!

 

[laazrakit]

Sanford broke Morgan.

NO... Morgan was just exposed for what he really is... He was the same QB he was in 2019. The biggest difference was that he wasn't getting NFL-caliber WR help in 2020.

 

[MaxyJR1]

NO... Morgan was just exposed for what he really is... He was the same QB he was in 2019. The biggest difference was that he wasn't getting NFL-caliber WR help in 2020.

He seemed to hold the ball longer this year, which to me agrees with you the WR's took a step back this year.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Kill took over a team that was 2 seasons removed from 6 wins and in 3 years turned us into an 8 win team

I think he did a good job too. I do think he gets too much credit.

I think you're underselling how bad we were when Kill took us over. The program had to be completely revamped. We went from losing to South Dakota to being a middle of the road Big 10 team. We won 8+ games in 3 out of 4 seasons.

In the 4 years prior to Kill, we had ~22% Big 10 winning percentage. We finished .500 or better in 3 of the last 4 years of Kill/Claeys. Even Mase only finished .500 or better in the Big 10 for 4 total seasons. We were a putrid program prior to Kill. Getting that program to .500 in the Big 10 or better was a really difficult task.

I really don't want to turn this into a Kill or Fleck thing. I like both of them and I am really happy Fleck is our coach. I think he is the better coach.

Paul Chryst is 55 years old, Tom Allen is 50, Jeff Brohm is 49. Jerry Kill was 50 when he took over as the Gopher HC.

Fleck just turned 40. Kirk Ferentz got his first GA gig in 1977, so he's been coaching since before Fleck was born.

Much like Pitino on the basketball side, when you hire someone that young, you're inevitably going to have some on-the-job training.

Unfortunately Pitino has yet to have a break-through season, and I've lost hope that he ever will. Fleck on the other hand, had a breakout season last year. There are no guarantees, but I'm confident that Fleck will continue to improve, and so will the program.

A Big 10 job is never on-the-job training. Pitino is a great example of this.

 

[Some guy]

I think you're underselling how bad we were when Kill took us over. The program had to be completely revamped. We went from losing to South Dakota to being a middle of the road Big 10 team. We won 8+ games in 3 out of 4 seasons.

In the 4 years prior to Kill, we had ~22% Big 10 winning percentage. We finished .500 or better in 3 of the last 4 years of Kill/Claeys. Even Mase only finished .500 or better in the Big 10 for 4 total seasons. We were a putrid program prior to Kill. Getting that program to .500 in the Big 10 or better was a really difficult task.

I really don't want to turn this into a Kill or Fleck thing. I like both of them and I am really happy Fleck is our coach. I think he is the better coach.

I agree kill did a good job.
In the 3 years preceding Kill we made 2 bowls.

People pretend like we were 1-11 for years on end.


Mason 6-7
Brewster 1-11
Brewster 6-7
Brewster 6-7
Brewster/Horton 3-9

kill 3-9
Kill 6-7
Kill 8-5
Kill 8-5
Kill/claeys 6-7
Claeys 9-4


kill did a really good job, and if he didn’t we likely aren’t in position to land a guy like fleck. But im not going to pretend kill was some elite coach. He was a good coach who never won as many games as Mason, claeys, or fleck won.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I agree kill did a good job.
In the 3 years preceding Kill we made 2 bowls.

People pretend like we were 1-11 for years on end.


Mason 6-7
Brewster 1-11
Brewster 6-7
Brewster 6-7
Brewster/Horton 3-9

kill 3-9
Kill 6-7
Kill 8-5
Kill 8-5
Kill/claeys 6-7
Claeys 9-4


kill did a really good job, and if he didn’t we likely aren’t in position to land a guy like fleck. But im not going to pretend kill was some elite coach. He was a good coach who never won as many games as Mason, claeys, or fleck won.

Yes, we finished .500 or better in the Big 10 a total of 4 times in the 35 years prior to Kill. We finished .500 or better 4 times under Kill/Claeys.

There is nothing to pretend, it was an elite turnaround of a program.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

NO... Morgan was just exposed for what he really is... He was the same QB he was in 2019. The biggest difference was that he wasn't getting NFL-caliber WR help in 2020.

Leidballs!

 

[Some guy]

Yes, we finished .500 or better in the Big 10 a total of 4 times in the 35 years prior to Kill. We finished .500 or better 4 times under Kill/Claeys.

There is nothing to pretend, it was an elite turnaround of a program.

I would take Mason over Kill 100% of the time. Mason had larger hurdles to get over than the 3.5 year Brewster blip that included 2 bowls.

We will agree to disagree.

I personally think Kill was really solid but maybe is the second most overrated coach in gopher history behind only Holtz

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I would take Mason over Kill 100% of the time. Mason had larger hurdles to get over than the 3.5 year Brewster blip that included 2 bowls.

We will agree to disagree.

I personally think Kill was really solid but maybe is the second most overrated coach in gopher history behind only Holtz

I have nothing against Mason. I think Mase and Kill are pretty close.

Again, you can keep talking about Brew's tenure like it wasn't a catastrophic failure but you might be doing it on the wrong board. Many of us were sitting in the stands as we were getting trounced by FCS and MAC schools. It was a disaster.

Yes - he beat some cans in the non-conference to get to 6 wins. He won 22% of his Big 10 games.

If your argument is that Kill doesn't deserve much credit because the Brew years weren't so bad. . .yep, we'll have to agree to disagree.