Fire Tubby!

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betterdeadthanred said:
After the starting 5 there is nothing, that is my point. It has to do with Tubby's terrible recruiting. There is maybe 3 BT caliber players on the bench.
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That's why you recruit more guys to replace some of those starters. If we roll 8 deep, we're doing okay IMO. Tubby's not the greatest recruiter around, but he is getting some pretty good athletes through here when he's not scrambling to replace transfers. It's not like he's pulling in guys every year who don't have major offers or something. Outside of the spring pickups to fill spots, I'm pretty sure every other player Tubby's gotten had some pretty decent offers on the table for them.
 

BarnBurner said:
You being one of them.

Couldnt get behind the team before they reel off 3 cong wins dp????? You of the "MN has historically been below average and I cant see that this team is different" bs?
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I've been behind the team, consistently, ups and downs, since I enrolled here in September 1998. I'm also realistic. Expectations are adjusted based on past performance. Given past performance of the school and coach, I'm not expecting anything past a first-round Tournament win. Anything less is underperforming. Anything more is gravy. Once that performance metric has been established, expectations are set for future seasons. This really isn't complicated.

BarnBurner said:
Historically doenst matter.
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"Historically doenst [sic] matter"?!?!?!? Laughably ignorant!!! What do you suppose every coach and player in the country bases their employment/matriculation decisions on if not history?

BarnBurner said:
10 wins to go to meet my prediction of 13 conf wins.
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↑ doesn't understand the difference between predictions and expectations. I'm sure Robert Kraft predicts (reasonably) that NE will go to the Super Bowl every year, but he doesn't expect it. Belichick would've been fired long ago if he were held to those (ridiculous) expectations.
 

betterdeadthanred said:
I have high hopes for this year, but next year is going to be tough. If Trevor, Rodney, and potentially Andre are gone this will not be a good team at all. Austin and Joe with a bad supporting cast is not a good formula for success.
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I dont think Andre is leaving. If he does not, the team probably just becomes much more of a perimeter team with Hollins X 2 and Coleman probably socring 45 pts a game. I agree there will be a void in the middle, but IMO way too early to predict where the team will be next year.
 

betterdeadthanred said:
If it wasn't for a great starting 5 this team would be terrible. I get nervous anytime we go to the bench, every time we mass sub I think there goes the lead. I have no faith in anyone on the bench. The great bench showed how good they were last night. I wish we subbed like OSU did a few years ago and only played 7 players the whole game. Even then I am not sure who the other two I want to play would be, clearly not Mo or Maverick.
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Yeah, you're right. If our team wasn't really good, we wouldn't be very good. Why has no one pointed this out until now?

I wouldn't mind if this thread was deleted.
 

The Tubby Haters were out in full force last year - funny how the idiots are underground now.
 


Of the kids who have stayed in the program through their senior seasons, does anyone know what is the graduation rate of the players under his time at Minnesota?
 

khoffman43 said:
Where is Andre potentially going?
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NBAdraft.net, which is pretty reliable all things considered, has Dre as a late lottery pick in the 2014 NBA Draft, #11 overall, by their latest mock draft from earlier this week. Other pundits are high on Dre as well. Obviously that's about 18 months away and lots of things can happen, but he has to be aware of this and thinking about the future. If he stays hot and we have a good tourney run that ups his stock to the first round for the 2013 Draft, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he'd leave school after this season.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I've been behind the team, consistently, ups and downs, since I enrolled here in September 1998. I'm also realistic. Expectations are adjusted based on past performance. Given past performance of the school and coach, I'm not expecting anything past a first-round Tournament win. Anything less is underperforming. Anything more is gravy. Once that performance metric has been established, expectations are set for future seasons. This really isn't complicated.
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I agree with most things you say, but my God, man. This didn't make sense the first time you said it and it won't make sense the next 100 times you say it. Performance by a completely different team in the past has no bearing on this current team. Not one bit.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
I agree with most things you say, but my God, man. This didn't make sense the first time you said it and it won't make sense the next 100 times you say it. Performance by a completely different team in the past has no bearing on this current team. Not one bit.
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It doesn't have to make sense, but it's true. Lots of good teams (across all sports at all levels) don't do as well as their talent would indicate because they don't have experience at winning. The history builds on itself.
 



dpodoll68 said:
It doesn't have to make sense, but it's true. Lots of good teams (across all sports at all levels) don't do as well as their talent would indicate because they don't have experience at winning. The history builds on itself.
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So if we would have been a top 10 team every single year in Gopher history with a national championship every other year leading up to, say, 2008, that would somehow give our current players the experience of winning even though they weren't on those teams?
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
So if we would have been a top 10 team every single year in Gopher history with a national championship every other year leading up to, say, 2008, that would somehow give our current players the experience of winning even though they weren't on those teams?
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No. But the point is moot, because we'd most likely have even better players than we do now if we had that kind of history to recruit with. Fan expectations would (and should) also be much higher than they should be right now.
 


Praising Tubby deservedly for the team's performance this season and being very disappointed with his coaching and general attitude during the 2010-11 and 2011-12 late season meltdowns need not be mutally exclusive. I never thought he should have been fired in either case, but certainly expected big things this year if he was going to maintain his position.
 



betterdeadthanred said:
If Andre continues the great season he is having I would not be surprised if he left early. Why not go when your stock is at it's highest? As for the new guys coming in.... I sure hope the are as good as Mav, Mo, Ingram, EE, and Welch.... If Buggs is decent he would not be redshirting. ESPN rates Ellis as the #53 SG and Foster as the #60 PF, that's not to promising.
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ESPN had Austin Hollins rated as the #64 SG, not much promise there either...
 

dpodoll68 said:
No. But the point is moot, because we'd most likely have even better players than we do now if we had that kind of history to recruit with. Fan expectations would (and should) also be much higher than they should be right now.
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The history of our football program winning 6 or 7 titles has really helped the program today hasnt it? Bwhahaha, good one!
 

betterdeadthanred said:
If Andre continues the great season he is having I would not be surprised if he left early. Why not go when your stock is at it's highest? As for the new guys coming in.... I sure hope the are as good as Mav, Mo, Ingram, EE, and Welch.... If Buggs is decent he would not be redshirting. ESPN rates Ellis as the #53 SG and Foster as the #60 PF, that's not to promising.
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How come you're not in school today? Do mom and dad know you're using the computer?
 



betterdeadthanred said:
If Andre continues the great season he is having I would not be surprised if he left early. Why not go when your stock is at it's highest?
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It's possible but I think he still has work to do as far as being a PG. We all know he can score, but he will have to continue to improve his ball handling skills to succeed at the next level.

If Buggs is decent he would not be redshirting.
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Redshirting is not out of the ordinary in some cases. I think in this case it had more to do with us being pretty deep at his position and he wouldn't get much or any playing time. Kelly Olynyk of Gonzaga redshirted after sophomore year and he's a potential All-American this year.
 

betterdeadthanred said:
Now I'm a child because I don't like Tubby? good one...
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I think he called you a child because you said there is a chance Andre leaves for the NBA and then followed it up with another brilliant piece of insight by knocking our incoming recruits before they have attended 1 practice.
 

My only complaint would be the mass substitutions, I lose more and more hair everytime I see 5 bench players on the court together.
 

GoldenUMNGopher said:
The history of our football program winning 6 or 7 titles has really helped the program today hasnt it? Bwhahaha, good one!
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Recent history (where we haven't had success in basketball) is far more important to coaches, players, and fans than long-ago history (where we haven't had success in basketball). In football, we at least have one, though it doesn't matter much in the present for the reasons outlined in the first sentence. In basketball, we have neither. I would pat you on the head and say "Nice try," but it really wasn't.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Recent history (where we haven't had success in basketball) is far more important to coaches, players, and fans than long-ago history (where we haven't had success in basketball). In football, we at least have one, though it doesn't matter much in the present for the reasons outlined in the first sentence. In basketball, we have neither. I would pat you on the head and say "Nice try," but it really wasn't.
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You are wrong. And wont admit it.

Sounds eeerily like deuce.
 

BarnBurner said:
You are wrong. And wont admit it.

Sounds eeerily like deuce.
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Wrong about what? Tell me precisely.

And you're right, S2 won't admit when he's wrong (except the one time with the Tea Party social agenda) - he'd rather parse about it for 10 pages. But I will easily admit when I'm wrong. I'm not here.
 

dpodoll68 said:
No. But the point is moot, because we'd most likely have even better players than we do now if we had that kind of history to recruit with. Fan expectations would (and should) also be much higher than they should be right now.
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Unfortunately Tyus and Rashard in their Q/A's stated that they could care less about the history(or even the current teams ranking) but more so care about the system that the team runs and CURRENT players on the roster.

You are just digging yourself a deeper hole. You just need to give up on this one and go away.
 


GoldenUMNGopher said:
Unfortunately Tyus and Rashard in their Q/A's stated that they could care less about the history(or even the current teams ranking) but more so care about the system that the team runs and CURRENT players on the roster.
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Yes, I'm sure they're being 100% honest and forthright in their answers. Don't be willfully stupid. If they said they cared a lot about the history of the school, that would be a de facto elimination of Minnesota. For whatever reasons they may have, they want to continue the facade that they are seriously considering Minnesota. Saying "history of the school is extremely important to me" crumbles that facade immediately. I also never said that there aren't other reasons - there are a multitude, including the ones you've named. You are lying to yourself if you think history of the programs isn't at or near the top of the list, for them and every other recruit in the country. Players don't go to Duke and Kentucky because Durham and Lexington are great places to live, and Krzyzewski and Calipari are really swell guys. They go there because the programs and the coaches win. That is called "history".

GoldenUMNGopher said:
You are just digging yourself a deeper hole. You just need to give up on this one and go away.
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No thanks, Mr. 59 Posts. I'm entitled to my opinion, especially when the validity and truth of my opinion is obvious to anyone with any sense at all.
 

GoldenUMNGopher said:
Unfortunately Tyus and Rashard in their Q/A's stated that they could care less about the history(or even the current teams ranking) but more so care about the system that the team runs and CURRENT players on the roster.

You are just digging yourself a deeper hole. You just need to give up on this one and go away.
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+1
 

GoldenHerbs said:
My only complaint would be the mass substitutions, I lose more and more hair everytime I see 5 bench players on the court together.
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Not a fan of it either. I think you can still play a bunch of guys and get rest for the starters without doing the mass substitution. I'd personally like to see at least two of the five starters on the floor at all times.
 

Does anyone know the Gopher's average end-of-season RPI over the last 5 years? I'd like to know the outcome of this season ahead of time.
 

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