Fire Ben Johnson

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gopherbadgerman said:
Good Players?
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These are below average Big Ten players that could be a 8-9 win Big Ten team with great coaching.
As it is the whole is less than the sum of the parts. They have below average talent and do not work well together as a team. No help on defense and very little offensive coordination. Garcia provides 29.5% of the offensive production. I think that might be the highest in the nation or close to it. The supporting cast is horrid and Garcia himself is a bad defensive player- Indiana scored inside as if he weren't even there and that's fairly normal. There isn't a single good two way player on the roster.

It all adds up to a last place squad that will likely win 4 conference games or less.
 

For all the times I kept hearing how close of a team they are, they sure didn't look like they enjoyed being on the court together last night. Something seems off. Ben did his usual stand on the side and crossed his arms. As a head coach I don't understand how you cant get your team to run back on defense. I have never seen this bad of transition defense in my life. As much as I want Ben gone, I don't see what good it will do to fire him now. Will the team compete harder under one of the assistant coaches? Will it help them shoot free throws better?
Not trying to be dramatic, but I don't see a way we win a game unless for some reason we get lucky and make 10-15 3s a game.
 

a quick reminder - the Gopher AD is Mark Coyle. He was born without a spine.

He fired Lindsay Whalen and then lied about it at the press conference - claimed it was a "mutual decision."

that's the person you trust to make a good decision? in case you forgot - Coyle hired Ben Johnson. so the guy who hired the coach you hate is also the guy you trust to replace the coach you hate.

If - as some believe - Coyle was forced to hire Johnson - why should the next hire be different? If higher-ups tell Coyle what to do, they'll still be telling Coyle what to do.

Even if everyone agrees that the Ben Johnson era is a failure - what do you think is going to change?
Same AD making the hire. Same NIL situation.

but next time will be different. OK.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
a quick reminder - the Gopher AD is Mark Coyle. He was born without a spine.

He fired Lindsay Whalen and then lied about it at the press conference - claimed it was a "mutual decision."

that's the person you trust to make a good decision? in case you forgot - Coyle hired Ben Johnson. so the guy who hired the coach you hate is also the guy you trust to replace the coach you hate.

If - as some believe - Coyle was forced to hire Johnson - why should the next hire be different? If higher-ups tell Coyle what to do, they'll still be telling Coyle what to do.

Even if everyone agrees that the Ben Johnson era is a failure - what do you think is going to change?
Same AD making the hire. Same NIL situation.

but next time will be different. OK.
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you posted things that are speculation which cannot be changed nor challenged. Where did the old happy SON go?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
a quick reminder - the Gopher AD is Mark Coyle. He was born without a spine.

He fired Lindsay Whalen and then lied about it at the press conference - claimed it was a "mutual decision."

that's the person you trust to make a good decision? in case you forgot - Coyle hired Ben Johnson. so the guy who hired the coach you hate is also the guy you trust to replace the coach you hate.

If - as some believe - Coyle was forced to hire Johnson - why should the next hire be different? If higher-ups tell Coyle what to do, they'll still be telling Coyle what to do.

Even if everyone agrees that the Ben Johnson era is a failure - what do you think is going to change?
Same AD making the hire. Same NIL situation.

but next time will be different. OK.
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so you want to keep Johnson because of who the AD is?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
a quick reminder - the Gopher AD is Mark Coyle. He was born without a spine.

He fired Lindsay Whalen and then lied about it at the press conference - claimed it was a "mutual decision."

that's the person you trust to make a good decision? in case you forgot - Coyle hired Ben Johnson. so the guy who hired the coach you hate is also the guy you trust to replace the coach you hate.

If - as some believe - Coyle was forced to hire Johnson - why should the next hire be different? If higher-ups tell Coyle what to do, they'll still be telling Coyle what to do.

Even if everyone agrees that the Ben Johnson era is a failure - what do you think is going to change?
Same AD making the hire. Same NIL situation.

but next time will be different. OK.
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I agree our AD has lots of faults. But, there is still a chance he could just get lucky and hire a good coach. I'd say PJ and the hockey coach are pretty good hires. Not sold on the women's basketball hire.
The social climate is very different from the George Floyd peak and campus climate. The president is different. He has the Ben Johnson results to point to. I believe for certain we will at the least get a better coach.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
you posted things that are speculation which cannot be changed nor challenged. Where did the old happy SON go?
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you post snarky comments and never offer anything of substance.

in all seriousness - it's past the point of defending Johnson. the U hired a former MN player with roots in the MN HS system. It didn't work out. but I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on right now.

"If the Gophers hire the right coach, everything will change."

yeah, and if I pick the right numbers, I'll win the lottery.

in college basketball, it's all about having the money to buy better players. Gophers don't have the money. so they can't get better players. a new coach - by himself - doesn't change that.

"but the new coach will bring in more NIL."

based on what? again, it's all wishful thinking.
 



Gophs24 said:
so you want to keep Johnson because of who the AD is?
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No - if I was running the U, I would fire Coyle. then I would hire a new AD. the new AD would hire the new Basketball Coach.

Coyle would become the President of the PJ Fleck Fan Club.

Oops - I forgot - Coyle already has that job.
 

I'm trying to muster the will to even post about Gopher BB. I just don't care any longer.

Fire him, or don't. I don't care because it's painfully obvious those that should care the most don't as well.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
you post snarky comments and never offer anything of substance.

in all seriousness - it's past the point of defending Johnson. the U hired a former MN player with roots in the MN HS system. It didn't work out. but I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on right now.

"If the Gophers hire the right coach, everything will change."

yeah, and if I pick the right numbers, I'll win the lottery.

in college basketball, it's all about having the money to buy better players. Gophers don't have the money. so they can't get better players. a new coach - by himself - doesn't change that.

"but the new coach will bring in more NIL."

based on what? again, it's all wishful thinking.
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This is so fucking stupid it's mind boggling.

The idea that a better coach can't improve this shit show is ridiculous on its face.

But lets just examine your points:
The NIL argument is so lame and lazy. EVERY D1 program in the US dominates the Gophers? Really? North Texas can come into Williams Arena and win because of their NIL advantage?
Neither you or I even know the NIL particulars, for one thing. But I'd wager a lot of money it's similar to most of D1.

Nobody here is claiming a new coaches will " fix everything." But it doesn't have to be like it is, either.

Johnson was a swing and a miss. Huge miss. Why he was hired in irrelevant. Move on. Admit the blindingly obvious and start the process of replacing an utter, outright, abject failure.

Do it today.

And stop pretending it has to be this way, or that Coyle is the problem.

Or, BTW, that somehow PJ Fleck is to blame.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
No - if I was running the U, I would fire Coyle. then I would hire a new AD. the new AD would hire the new Basketball Coach.

Coyle would become the President of the PJ Fleck Fan Club.

Oops - I forgot - Coyle already has that job.
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Coyle is a very real problem. IMO, with NIL, we need an AD that can market the program and bring in "investors" to raise the needed dollars. Coyle is exactly the opposite. The guy has the marketing charisma of a turnip. If you're a coach looking to move up to a new landing spot, without competitive NIL you're going to have to (a) realize you'll have to create your own pool of "investors" or (b) take a job elsewhere - most people that have options are going to choose option B.

In the meantime, it'd be great to get a well known retired coach that wants to get back into coaching for a short-term situation. Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, maybe even Mike Krzyzewski. Something to help stabilize the program and keep it from completely falling into an abyss.
 




short ornery norwegian said:
you post snarky comments and never offer anything of substance.

in all seriousness - it's past the point of defending Johnson. the U hired a former MN player with roots in the MN HS system. It didn't work out. but I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on right now.

"If the Gophers hire the right coach, everything will change."

yeah, and if I pick the right numbers, I'll win the lottery.

in college basketball, it's all about having the money to buy better players. Gophers don't have the money. so they can't get better players. a new coach - by himself - doesn't change that.

"but the new coach will bring in more NIL."

based on what? again, it's all wishful thinking.
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I think that the point made last night, by the commentators) about revenue sharing is correct- it will help. Not against other Big Ten teams so much, but against all other D1 teams. The Big Ten has the biggest pot of TV revenue of any conference and smaller conferences just won't compete. So we have the opportunity to get really good talent, good enough that good coaching could elevate us. Right now our talent is so bad, I doubt a good coach could get past 8 wins with this mess. Ben won't get past 4.

A good coach that is relational (Ben is not) and inspires hope (Ben does not and never has) will inspire donors to do more. Enough? I don't know. How the U selected a coach with no experience and zero charisma, is beyond me. He is a good guy with good character and he recruits guys with good character and that is a great thing. It's just not enough.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
a quick reminder - the Gopher AD is Mark Coyle. He was born without a spine.

He fired Lindsay Whalen and then lied about it at the press conference - claimed it was a "mutual decision."

that's the person you trust to make a good decision? in case you forgot - Coyle hired Ben Johnson. so the guy who hired the coach you hate is also the guy you trust to replace the coach you hate.

If - as some believe - Coyle was forced to hire Johnson - why should the next hire be different? If higher-ups tell Coyle what to do, they'll still be telling Coyle what to do.

Even if everyone agrees that the Ben Johnson era is a failure - what do you think is going to change?
Same AD making the hire. Same NIL situation.

but next time will be different. OK.
Click to expand...
Not that I am disagreeing with you but I do think Coyle got it right the second time with Coach P. I think she will turn the women's program around. It will take some time, but she is a winner.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
you post snarky comments and never offer anything of substance.

in all seriousness - it's past the point of defending Johnson. the U hired a former MN player with roots in the MN HS system. It didn't work out. but I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on right now.

"If the Gophers hire the right coach, everything will change."

yeah, and if I pick the right numbers, I'll win the lottery.

in college basketball, it's all about having the money to buy better players. Gophers don't have the money. so they can't get better players. a new coach - by himself - doesn't change that.

"but the new coach will bring in more NIL."

based on what? again, it's all wishful thinking.
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I agree to a point. However, someone who knows how to coach, regardless of NIL, should be able to put a better product on the floor than Johnson has now for 4 years. This team was terrible last night, just terrible.
 

bga1 said:
He might decline. He's close to Ben and he may not want to suffer through any more of this.
Is it possible that they give someone from the outside who can teach the game a chance as interim? The performance we see is reflective of the whole staff. Is there a veteran coach out there who is on the sidelines?
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I agree. I think it would be one of the other assistants currently on staff.
 




USAF said:
This is so fucking stupid it's mind boggling.

The idea that a better coach can't improve this shit show is ridiculous on its face.

But lets just examine your points:
The NIL argument is so lame and lazy. EVERY D1 program in the US dominates the Gophers? Really? North Texas can come into Williams Arena and win because of their NIL advantage?
Neither you or I even know the NIL particulars, for one thing. But I'd wager a lot of money it's similar to most of D1.

Nobody here is claiming a new coaches will " fix everything." But it doesn't have to be like it is, either.

Johnson was a swing and a miss. Huge miss. Why he was hired in irrelevant. Move on. Admit the blindingly obvious and start the process of replacing an utter, outright, abject failure.

Do it today.

And stop pretending it has to be this way, or that Coyle is the problem.

Or, BTW, that somehow PJ Fleck is to blame.
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The guy gets half his takes ripping off Reusse or random podcasters he listens to...you really surprised his post is ridiculous?
 

Full Speed Ahead said:
Coyle is a very real problem. IMO, with NIL, we need an AD that can market the program and bring in "investors" to raise the needed dollars. Coyle is exactly the opposite. The guy has the marketing charisma of a turnip. If you're a coach looking to move up to a new landing spot, without competitive NIL you're going to have to (a) realize you'll have to create your own pool of "investors" or (b) take a job elsewhere - most people that have options are going to choose option B.

In the meantime, it'd be great to get a well known retired coach that wants to get back into coaching for a short-term situation. Tony Bennett, Jay Wright, maybe even Mike Krzyzewski. Something to help stabilize the program and keep it from completely falling into an abyss.
Click to expand...
Why would any coach want a short term job...especially one where they are going to lose a LOT?
 


I don't think anyone enjoys calling for or being in favor of dismissal. The head coach Johnson is an M man and a former player. This is a lot like the Lindsey Whalen situation on the women's side, it is clear the program is bottoming out, needs a program builder, and a new face in head coach. Seems obvious, the players are not responding well to the current staff. The men's basketball program needs a fresh voice and a change just to get rid of the stench of complacency and status quo.
 

I look at Payne, he's averaging 16+ minutes a game and around 6.7 ppg. Hawkins is averaging around 24 minutes a game but similar points to Payne. Ola-Joseph similar points and minutes to Payne. All for a little more money.

The landscape has changed, Johnson may have succeeded had this not happened but it did. I don't think he is as bad a coach as people make out but his inability to recruit in this environment is a killer. Have to move on.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
a quick reminder - the Gopher AD is Mark Coyle. He was born without a spine.

He fired Lindsay Whalen and then lied about it at the press conference - claimed it was a "mutual decision."

that's the person you trust to make a good decision? in case you forgot - Coyle hired Ben Johnson. so the guy who hired the coach you hate is also the guy you trust to replace the coach you hate.

If - as some believe - Coyle was forced to hire Johnson - why should the next hire be different? If higher-ups tell Coyle what to do, they'll still be telling Coyle what to do.

Even if everyone agrees that the Ben Johnson era is a failure - what do you think is going to change?
Same AD making the hire. Same NIL situation.

but next time will be different. OK.
Click to expand...
So we should run it back with year 5 of 17-62 Ben Johnson because you don't like Mark Coyle?

Coyle is not getting fired. Our choices are retain the worst coach in Gopher history or replace him.
 

Dave H said:
Why would any coach want a short term job...especially one where they are going to lose a LOT?
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Because they miss coaching. A lot of folks retire, and then want to go back to work, but don't want to do it on a full-time or long-term basis. The new temp coach wouldn't worry about recruiting or fundraising, which is a huge time sink that's gotta be a pretty miserable part of the job, and instead just focus on coaching which they like.
 

The Ben Johnson Show on KFAN right now is a funeral dirge. Setting new lows for energy and enthusiasm, which is a pretty tall task.

Get it over with already, FFS.

Everyone, including Johnson, knows it's coming.
 

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