Fire Ben Johnson

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LakevilleBro said:
I grew up loving Gopher basketball, but my interest today in Gopher basketball is zero.
Sorry to say that, but it is true.
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This is one of the key things right now. It takes a lot to shock me, but I'm downright shocked at how far this program has fallen, particularly the lack of interest among fans and in the community. I never thought I would see the day that building is this empty. Not just that, but even the hard core fans are beaten down and apathetic. I'm shocked by my own behavior: skipping games, and I've always been religious about attending games, even in a snowstorm! Last night, I knew they were on, but I still scheduled a gathering of friends to play cards. In my equation, with things the way they are, the time with friends is way more important than my attention to this team. In the past, I would've tried to schedule around it.

This has risen to the level of crisis. Not necessarily a mid-season firing crisis, but I wish I saw signs of the AD addressing it like the crisis it is. As a fan, I feel totally left out in the cold and feel like the U cares way less about this than I do.

As someone posted earlier, we knew who Ben was when they hired him. The only surprise is that it's turned out even worse than most of the apocalyptic predictions at that time. Imagine if the former 5-star recruit (Garcia) hadn't fallen in his lap!
 

upnorthkid said:
was it DEI or was DEI a bonus on top of hiring a cheap coach who played here and was an assistant here for a sport the university doesn't care about that some local people would maybe be on board with? he is and was an awful hire but there were multiple reasons his name even came up in the first place and it wasn't like we just made a list of any Black coaches in the country and started from there.
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Certain posters really want you to know what kind of people they are. "DEI" is the rallying cry of the deplorables.
 

Full Speed Ahead said:
Because they miss coaching. A lot of folks retire, and then want to go back to work, but don't want to do it on a full-time or long-term basis. The new temp coach wouldn't worry about recruiting or fundraising, which is a huge time sink that's gotta be a pretty miserable part of the job, and instead just focus on coaching which they like.
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No offense but you are living in a dream world if you think that is happening or even likely possible.
 


Bad Gopher said:
This is one of the key things right now. It takes a lot to shock me, but I'm downright shocked at how far this program has fallen, particularly the lack of interest among fans and in the community. I never thought I would see the day that building is this empty. Not just that, but even the hard core fans are beaten down and apathetic. I'm shocked by my own behavior: skipping games, and I've always been religious about attending games, even in a snowstorm! Last night, I knew they were on, but I still scheduled a gathering of friends to play cards. In my equation, with things the way they are, the time with friends is way more important than my attention to this team. In the past, I would've tried to schedule around it.

This has risen to the level of crisis. Not necessarily a mid-season firing crisis, but I wish I saw signs of the AD addressing it like the crisis it is. As a fan, I feel totally left out in the cold and feel like the U cares way less about this than I do.

As someone posted earlier, we knew who Ben was when they hired him. The only surprise is that it's turned out even worse than most of the apocalyptic predictions at that time. Imagine if the former 5-star recruit (Garcia) hadn't fallen in his lap!
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If they aren't going to fire him there is not much Coyle can do publicly to assure the fans change is coming. If he starts talking about searching for new coaches or talking in those terms he might as well just can him because you are basically doing it anyways. Maybe if February you can say he isn't coming back but not now. That would look insane.
 

jovs said:
I look at Payne, he's averaging 16+ minutes a game and around 6.7 ppg. Hawkins is averaging around 24 minutes a game but similar points to Payne. Ola-Joseph similar points and minutes to Payne. All for a little more money.

The landscape has changed, Johnson may have succeeded had this not happened but it did. I don't think he is as bad a coach as people make out but his inability to recruit in this environment is a killer. Have to move on.
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It's safe to say that Hawkins and Payne both cashed in. Neither is likely to make a lot in the pros.....so striking while the iron is hot? Really cannot blame them. No idea if Ola Joseph is doing better in NIL at CAL.

But the bolded paragraph I agree with 100%. Would have been interesting to see what the team looked like had Johnson been able to keep them together. And the problem is....we really don't know how much of that is Johnson's fault due to the hazy information regarding NIL. In the end....it doesn't matter. He wasn't able to identify and lure in players to replace the Minnesota Judas Crew....who could compete at this level. Their replacements are mid-major role players. Sucks that this is how it all went down. I feel for Ben Johnson. But unfortunately....this is the game and he hasn't played it well enough. Time to start fresh next year.
 

On a related note....I noticed a week or two ago that Henley wasn't with DePaul any longer. Didn't care to look it up at the time.....but just did. He's now at UNLV. Certain guys are simply going to go where the offer is the best. Makes things tough.
 

Dave H said:
If they aren't going to fire him there is not much Coyle can do publicly to assure the fans change is coming. If he starts talking about searching for new coaches or talking in those terms he might as well just can him because you are basically doing it anyways. Maybe if February you can say he isn't coming back but not now. That would look insane.
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That's exactly why it should be done now. It looks crappy to start back-channeling the interest of replacements if he's still employed

And fans, if there are any left, almost have to root for them to lose now for fear he will justify doing nothing if they go 6-14 or something. It's toxic.
 



stocker08 said:
It's safe to say that Hawkins and Payne both cashed in. Neither is likely to make a lot in the pros.....so striking while the iron is hot? Really cannot blame them. No idea if Ola Joseph is doing better in NIL at CAL.

But the bolded paragraph I agree with 100%. Would have been interesting to see what the team looked like had Johnson been able to keep them together. And the problem is....we really don't know how much of that is Johnson's fault due to the hazy information regarding NIL. In the end....it doesn't matter. He wasn't able to identify and lure in players to replace the Minnesota Judas Crew....who could compete at this level. Their replacements are mid-major role players. Sucks that this is how it all went down. I feel for Ben Johnson. But unfortunately....this is the game and he hasn't played it well enough. Time to start fresh next year.
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Year 1 it looked like there was a discernible system but the players just weren't good enough most nights. What's the system now? The offense is a joke. The effort on defense is spotty at best. There's no evidence he's a good X's and O's coach. He's been meh as a recruiter with a couple hits (Christie) but not nearly enough to overcome the poor X's and O's.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
you post snarky comments and never offer anything of substance.

in all seriousness - it's past the point of defending Johnson. the U hired a former MN player with roots in the MN HS system. It didn't work out. but I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on right now.

"If the Gophers hire the right coach, everything will change."

yeah, and if I pick the right numbers, I'll win the lottery.

in college basketball, it's all about having the money to buy better players. Gophers don't have the money. so they can't get better players. a new coach - by himself - doesn't change that.

"but the new coach will bring in more NIL."

based on what? again, it's all wishful thinking.
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Come on now...you watch enough high school sports to know that there are a lot of bad coaches.
Yet, there is that guy that wins every year because he can coach and win with lesser talent. One southern Minnesota example that jumps to mind is Rushford Peterson boys coach. He wins every year. Has no advantages, doesn't recruit...he's just a better coach. Same thing exists in college....guys move up from smaller schools and continue to win.
Bruce Pearl started out below DI, Dad Bennent started below DI. Wisconsin Final Four coach started below DI. If you can coach you can coach. Some guys win because they have way better talent but they can't coach and if they stay they get exposed.
 

howeda7 said:
That's exactly why it should be done now. It looks crappy to start back-channeling the interest of replacements if he's still employed

And fans, if there are any left, almost have to root for them to lose now for fear he will justify doing nothing if they go 6-14 or something. It's toxic.
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I would be more in favor of it if Thorson wasn't the guy who would take over. I don't think he has the chops anymore.

Then again...at this point who cares.
 

Dave H said:
I would be more in favor of it if Thorson wasn't the guy who would take over. I don't think he has the chops anymore.

Then again...at this point who cares.
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I don't particularly care if its Thorsen or one of the other two. But he's far more experienced and seems to be the one leading huddles when Ben doesn't. They're not going to win more than 2-3 B1G games no matter who the coach is but it would be nice if they at least didn't get run off the floor every night.
 



stocker08 said:
It's safe to say that Hawkins and Payne both cashed in. Neither is likely to make a lot in the pros.....so striking while the iron is hot? Really cannot blame them. No idea if Ola Joseph is doing better in NIL at CAL.

But the bolded paragraph I agree with 100%. Would have been interesting to see what the team looked like had Johnson been able to keep them together. And the problem is....we really don't know how much of that is Johnson's fault due to the hazy information regarding NIL. In the end....it doesn't matter. He wasn't able to identify and lure in players to replace the Minnesota Judas Crew....who could compete at this level. Their replacements are mid-major role players. Sucks that this is how it all went down. I feel for Ben Johnson. But unfortunately....this is the game and he hasn't played it well enough. Time to start fresh next year.
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I would like to have seen this team without the rash of injuries. That would have been a better measurement of where the program is and what to do with it now. I think this was a NIT team without the injuries. Then you can say, hey, we've gone to the NIT twice in a row now, so things are headed in the right direction.
  • That said, is even two straight NITs what you want, even with hope for a better future beyond that? We fired all the previous coaches, and they were doing better than that.
  • In any case, we can do better. If you can do better, you do better. Why settle for less well than you can do? Unless you really don't care. Unless the empty building and apathetic fans are OK. Maybe we've accepted being a basement dweller. Every conference needs a doormat. It's a sports tradition. I've posted here before: if that's the deal, the AD should come out and say that.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I would like to have seen this team without the rash of injuries. That would have been a better measurement of where the program is and what to do with it now. I think this was a NIT team without the injuries. Then you can say, hey, we've gone to the NIT twice in a row now, so things are headed in the right direction.
  • That said, is even two straight NITs what you want, even with hope for a better future beyond that? We fired all the previous coaches, and they were doing better than that.
  • In any case, we can do better. If you can do better, you do better. Why settle for less well than you can do? Unless you really don't care. Unless the empty building and apathetic fans are OK. Maybe we've accepted being a basement dweller. Every conference needs a doormat. It's a sports tradition. I've posted here before: if that's the deal, the AD should come out and say that.
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If Mitchell plays, we probably do beat North Texas and Wichita, but we're still nowhere close to an NIT team with him. The team as currently constructed will be lucky to win more than 2-3 conference games. I doubt Cochran can possibly add more than a couple to that total.

And no team is 100% healthy. The depth of this team was supposed to be its strength. They should be able to overcome injury to anyone not name Garcia.
 

howeda7 said:
If Mitchell plays, we probably do beat North Texas and Wichita, but we're still nowhere close to an NIT team with him. The team as currently constructed will be lucky to win more than 2-3 conference games. I doubt Cochran can possibly add more than a couple to that total.

And no team is 100% healthy. The depth of this team was supposed to be its strength. They should be able to overcome injury to anyone not name Garcia.
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If this team fails to make the BTT field, it's over, and they get a head start on replacing the coach. If they improve and make the BTT, it still might be over, but it's not a done deal. That's my prediction. I could be wrong.

I'm not a basketball coach, but the one thing I can tell you is that I would not recruit players who can't make free throws. We would make our free throws. Then I'd read Dick Bennett's book, watch a couple YouTube videos, and have our first practice. :LOL::p;) Seriously, the guy has done himself no favors by bringing in guys without the skills to play a game of skill.
 

Bad Gopher said:
If this team fails to make the BTT field, it's over, and they get a head start on replacing the coach. If they improve and make the BTT, it still might be over, but it's not a done deal. That's my prediction. I could be wrong.

I'm not a basketball coach, but the one thing I can tell you is that I would not recruit players who can't make free throws. We would make our free throws. Then I'd read Dick Bennett's book, watch a couple YouTube videos, and have our first practice. :LOL::p;) Seriously, the guy has done himself no favors by bringing in guys without the skills to play a game of skill.
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I fear going 6-14, finishing 15th and "making" the BTT might be Coyle's bar too. Hey, Ben's 21-59 four season in. But he "made" the B1G tournament! Let's run it back!

That's why I'm pretty much at the point of not even wanting them to win.

I'm not really a Tony Bennett fan, but he should probably be at the top of any short list if he is even remotely interested.
 

Look - Johnson is toast. that's not even debatable anymore.

so the question is - how does the U of MN move forward?

in my opinion - and yes, it's just an opinion - simply replacing the coach - WITHOUT making any other changes, may bring about a small improvement. but the issues are bigger than just the coach.
college basketball as we know it - or knew it - changed completely in the Spring of 2021 when the NCAA approved NIL and unlimited transfers, leading to this: it's all about money. recruiting HS players or bringing in transfers now comes with a price tag.

BYU just recruited the #1 HS player in the Country. according to some reports, he will be receiving $7-million in NIL. according to local reporters, the Gophers' best player, Dawson Garcia, is receiving either $350-thousand or $450-thousand in NIL.

for the Gophers to really change the program, they need the money to bring in a much higher level of athlete. and that costs money. so where does the money come from?

let me try this: changing the coach is like changing a light bulb. I think the entire house needs to be re-wired. I think the problems go beyond the coach. changing the coach without addressing those other problems will not get the program to the place where fans want it to go - in my opinion.
 

USAF said:
The Ben Johnson Show on KFAN right now is a funeral dirge. Setting new lows for energy and enthusiasm, which is a pretty tall task.

Get it over with already, FFS.

Everyone, including Johnson, knows it's coming.
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New lows for energy and enthusiasm? Have we slipped in the high five and butt slaps metrics?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look - Johnson is toast. that's not even debatable anymore.

so the question is - how does the U of MN move forward?

in my opinion - and yes, it's just an opinion - simply replacing the coach - WITHOUT making any other changes, may bring about a small improvement. but the issues are bigger than just the coach.
college basketball as we know it - or knew it - changed completely in the Spring of 2021 when the NCAA approved NIL and unlimited transfers, leading to this: it's all about money. recruiting HS players or bringing in transfers now comes with a price tag.

BYU just recruited the #1 HS player in the Country. according to some reports, he will be receiving $7-million in NIL. according to local reporters, the Gophers' best player, Dawson Garcia, is receiving either $350-thousand or $450-thousand in NIL.

for the Gophers to really change the program, they need the money to bring in a much higher level of athlete. and that costs money. so where does the money come from?

let me try this: changing the coach is like changing a light bulb. I think the entire house needs to be re-wired. I think the problems go beyond the coach. changing the coach without addressing those other problems will not get the program to the place where fans want it to go - in my opinion.
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This administration, this university is not wired to compete. They don't care. Men's revenue sports are a bother to them. Basketball has always been the program that tarnished their reputation.

So you are right, they will hire a new coach. However, unless that coach as part of his negotiations forces the administration into a support package- the misery will continue. They are going to have to hire someone who commands respect, and forces them to invest in him and the support he needs. Ben is a guy they hired on the cheap who checked a diversity box and had good character.
Since then they have been patiently patting him on the head and telling the public that the coach knows "our standards for winning" without saying what those standards are.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Look - Johnson is toast. that's not even debatable anymore.

so the question is - how does the U of MN move forward?

in my opinion - and yes, it's just an opinion - simply replacing the coach - WITHOUT making any other changes, may bring about a small improvement. but the issues are bigger than just the coach.
college basketball as we know it - or knew it - changed completely in the Spring of 2021 when the NCAA approved NIL and unlimited transfers, leading to this: it's all about money. recruiting HS players or bringing in transfers now comes with a price tag.

BYU just recruited the #1 HS player in the Country. according to some reports, he will be receiving $7-million in NIL. according to local reporters, the Gophers' best player, Dawson Garcia, is receiving either $350-thousand or $450-thousand in NIL.

for the Gophers to really change the program, they need the money to bring in a much higher level of athlete. and that costs money. so where does the money come from?

let me try this: changing the coach is like changing a light bulb. I think the entire house needs to be re-wired. I think the problems go beyond the coach. changing the coach without addressing those other problems will not get the program to the place where fans want it to go - in my opinion.
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I think one thing leads to another. I'm not totally defeatist like you are. Sounds like you just want to throw your hands in the air and give up.
Hire the right coach and let him recruit the right players for his system (there are plenty of good players out there that won't cost $ millions). You then become more competitive which brings more fans and wins which leads to more donations. See PJ and football or Cignetti at Indiana.
Are we in an optimal situation? No. But any coach worth his salt could make something out of this. We are a BIG 10 school, not North Texas. Right now, we're not even St. Thomas.
 


TNGophfan said:
I think one thing leads to another. I'm not totally defeatist like you are. Sounds like you just want to throw your hands in the air and give up.
Hire the right coach and let him recruit the right players for his system (there are plenty of good players out there that won't cost $ millions). You then become more competitive which brings more fans and wins which leads to more donations. See PJ and football or Cignetti at Indiana.
Are we in an optimal situation? No. But any coach worth his salt could make something out of this. We are a BIG 10 school, not North Texas. Right now, we're not even St. Thomas.
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The thing about Texas is that Texas has at any given time almost 400 home grown kids that are playing D1 ball. So kids in HS are playing high level competition and plenty will fall between the cracks.

Minnesota might produce less than 1/10th of that and the kids that are good often times are not playing great competition and don't want to stay home in the tundra. If we have a good program- it all changes. Kids from here will want to play here and stay here.
 

howeda7 said:
I fear going 6-14, finishing 15th and "making" the BTT might be Coyle's bar too. Hey, Ben's 21-59 four season in. But he "made" the B1G tournament! Let's run it back!

That's why I'm pretty much at the point of not even wanting them to win.

I'm not really a Tony Bennett fan, but he should probably be at the top of any short list if he is even remotely interested.
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That's an interesting name, but I put the chances of that at 0.0% He burned out and retired just like his dad before him. He's done.
 

Bad Gopher said:
That's an interesting name, but I put the chances of that at 0.0% He burned out and retired just like his dad before him. He's done.
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Maybe. He's only 55. But he can get a higher profile gig than MN if he wants one.
 

Well Danny B started his show with how the greatest danger to any team is apathy. He highlighted the extremely sparse crowd at the Michigan State home game, along with the pathetic play of the team this season, after last season seemed promising.
 

upnorthkid said:
was it DEI or was DEI a bonus on top of hiring a cheap coach who played here and was an assistant here for a sport the university doesn't care about that some local people would maybe be on board with?
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Ben wasn’t cheap, he has been making near what Pitino was the entire time.

upnorthkid said:
he is and was an awful hire but there were multiple reasons his name even came up in the first place and it wasn't like we just made a list of any Black coaches in the country and started from there.
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This is pretty much exactly what happened. Why else weren’t Brian Dutcher and Craig Smith not brought in for interviews?
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
Look - Johnson is toast. that's not even debatable anymore.

so the question is - how does the U of MN move forward?

in my opinion - and yes, it's just an opinion - simply replacing the coach - WITHOUT making any other changes, may bring about a small improvement. but the issues are bigger than just the coach.
college basketball as we know it - or knew it - changed completely in the Spring of 2021 when the NCAA approved NIL and unlimited transfers, leading to this: it's all about money. recruiting HS players or bringing in transfers now comes with a price tag.

BYU just recruited the #1 HS player in the Country. according to some reports, he will be receiving $7-million in NIL. according to local reporters, the Gophers' best player, Dawson Garcia, is receiving either $350-thousand or $450-thousand in NIL.

for the Gophers to really change the program, they need the money to bring in a much higher level of athlete. and that costs money. so where does the money come from?

let me try this: changing the coach is like changing a light bulb. I think the entire house needs to be re-wired. I think the problems go beyond the coach. changing the coach without addressing those other problems will not get the program to the place where fans want it to go - in my opinion.
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According to the St Paul paper it is $500,000. Newspaper
 


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