ESPN: Grand Valley State suspends OC Morris Berger for wanting meal with Adolf Hitler

2nd Degree Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
1,840
Reaction score
996
Points
113
Wrong. Michigan, like most states, is an at-will state, meaning he can be fired for any reason or no reason at all, assuming the reason is outside of a protected basis (gender, religion, nationality, etc.). Do you ever get tired of being wrong in virtually every post you make?
While you are correct that Michigan is an employment-at-will state, that is most likely irrelevant here as football coaches generally work under employment contracts and it is that contract that would govern the rights and responsibilities of the parties for any discipline or discharge. The coaching contracts that I have seen distinguish between termination with cause and termination without cause. If that is true of this coach, they could absolutely terminate him under the contract if they wanted to do so, but there would likely be a fight over whether this was conduct suffcient to qualify as termination with cause (so they don't have to pay him) or without cause (so that they do have to pay him).
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
19,150
Reaction score
6,447
Points
113
While you are correct that Michigan is an employment-at-will state, that is most likely irrelevant here as football coaches generally work under employment contracts and it is that contract that would govern the rights and responsibilities of the parties for any discipline or discharge. The coaching contracts that I have seen distinguish between termination with cause and termination without cause. If that is true of this coach, they could absolutely terminate him under the contract if they wanted to do so, but there would likely be a fight over whether this was conduct suffcient to qualify as termination with cause (so they don't have to pay him) or without cause (so that they do have to pay him).

Yeah you don't see many "cause" terminations with coaches.

They just pay whatever the price is in the contract for termination.

IF the school actually chose to do anything I don't imagine they'd bother with doing it for cause, they'd just follow whatever the contract says.
 

2nd Degree Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
1,840
Reaction score
996
Points
113
IF the school actually chose to do anything I don't imagine they'd bother with doing it for cause, they'd just follow whatever the contract says.
Agreed, I don't think that they would want to fight over that. I should have said that there could be a fight if they tried to do it for cause.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
13,021
Reaction score
4,954
Points
113
I respectfully disagree. It was a very broad question and Hitler would make for a fascinating historical figure to try and understand. But the coach has to be smarter with his choice of words when discussing one of, if not the most hated men in history.

If you are going to pick someone like Hitler as an answer you better make sure that you make your reasons for doing so very clear. Referring to him as a "great leader" is not going to fly with most people because of the horrible things he was responsible for doing while in power.
Yup. I don't think Hitler would be a terrible choice at all for a dinner. Just to hear what kind of odd shit that came out of his mouth? To hear how he actually thinks/thought? As a bit of a psychology buff and one who is fascinated by how people think, I don't think it's that stupid of a choice.

That being said, the coach was stupid for citing him, and then praising several traits of Hitler.

The coach also doesn't have the kind of equity to say something like that. George Clooney could say that shit all day long
 

Pompous Elitist

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
20,041
Reaction score
4,506
Points
113
While it would be really, really strange to hear PJF say he’d like to pick Hitler’s brain...probably has enough equity in the bank. The messaging, branding plastered everwhere isn’t done in that iconic Nazi style, but messaging and branding does serve a purpose in an organization.
 


A_Slab_of_Bacon

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
19,150
Reaction score
6,447
Points
113
He resigned:

 

Deleted_User

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,831
Reaction score
533
Points
113
This is a terrible outcome. Hitler killed this guy's coaching because of a fiction. Even in death Hitler is terrible.
 


MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
13,465
Reaction score
8,666
Points
113
This is a terrible outcome. Hitler killed this guy's coaching because of a fiction. Even in death Hitler is terrible.

I think he will be able to come back from this. It is not like he was at a super high profile job. A little time will pass and people will forget all about this incident.
 





PMWinSTP

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
11,790
Reaction score
2,218
Points
113
He could not actually have dinner with Hitler.

"Berger was interviewed in the Grand Valley Lanthorn paper and was asked which three historical figures Berger would have dinner with. Berger responded by saying one of his choices would be Adolf Hitler, because of his leadership skills."
 

Deleted_User

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
7,831
Reaction score
533
Points
113
"Berger was interviewed in the Grand Valley Lanthorn paper and was asked which three historical figures Berger would have dinner with. Berger responded by saying one of his choices would be Adolf Hitler, because of his leadership skills."
Didn't I just confirm that? I thought I stated that. Huh. Am I not communicating in the same language as you?
 



Taji34

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
3,027
Reaction score
1,352
Points
113
Didn't I just confirm that? I thought I stated that. Huh. Am I not communicating in the same language as you?
I think it's your wording of "because of a fiction". That can either be interpreted as "because of a fictional/hypothetical situation" (which I believe is how you intended it) OR "because of a false story/statement about the coach" (which is how I think PMWinSTP may have interpreted it).
 

PMWinSTP

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
11,790
Reaction score
2,218
Points
113
Didn't I just confirm that? I thought I stated that. Huh. Am I not communicating in the same language as you?
I think it's your wording of "because of a fiction". That can either be interpreted as "because of a fictional/hypothetical situation" (which I believe is how you intended it) OR "because of a false story/statement about the coach" (which is how I think PMWinSTP may have interpreted it).
Correct.
 








BroncoRedux

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
260
Points
83
Almost 500,000 American lives were lost fighting an evil man and his evil enablers in WW11.

Leadership involves creating a legacy that can be followed to help future generations. Pot Pol, Idi Amin, Joe Stalin, Chairman Mao, these are examples of Hitler leadership qualities. The guy had so many quality choices to choose from.
 

BarnBoy

Active member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
4,218
Reaction score
19
Points
38
I think it’s ridiculous that a coach can’t answer honestly without being suspended. Clearly he acknowledged it wouldn’t go over well, he knew people would take it the wrong way, and then what did people do? Took it the wrong way. Can’t speak of Hitler in any way, except negatively. This is pathetic. Say goodbye to free speech

Did I miss the part of the story where the OC was thrown in prison by the government?
 


#2Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
8,018
Reaction score
2,181
Points
113
He resigned:

He obviously was getting much flack everywhere. Therefore he screwed up.
 


Texas-Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
2,620
Reaction score
103
Points
63
What he said wasn't wrong but it was stupid. Stupid people aren't a protected minority just yet.
 


Veritas

Banned
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
573
Points
113
I'm not sure who "Adlie" Stevenson was, but if he even did say it (doubtful), he didn't invent the phrase. You don't get to repeat an existing phrase and attribute it to yourself. That's not how it works.

Who said he said he invented it? Indeed, it was clear in the quote that this is what he said. Here is what I wrote, notice that there is no claim he invented the thought.

"Former two time Democratic presidential candidate Adlie Stenvenson said: "I may not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." That is what free speech means, or should I say meant?"

And if you were so burdened with that log/nether regions problem you have the quote would also make it clear who he was, ie "two time Democratic presidential candidate" (1952 and 1956). Or are you all confused due to the misspelling of his first name? Let me help you Adlie is a misspelling of Adlai as in the other quote above.
 




Top Bottom