Eliason Issue?

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Right now, Mo is a shadow of himself from two years ago. That's concerning. I've been critical of EE, but the truth is we're going to need quality minutes from him the rest of the way out. I do think his energy can be beneficial off the bench, but he needs to commit to playing the game with some smarts and savvy. I haven't seen that yet. Tubby may be trying to light a fire under him.
 

EE will be needed from here on out. He's an active 7fter. An active 7fter is such a rare thing that people go to the NBA for that ability and that ability alone. Now, i'm not saying that EE is going to play in the NBA or anything like that, I'm just saying that EE is a big help to our entire team. I hope his offense improves and I hope he becomes a tad more "skilled", but I really like EE's style of play and I think he's absolutely vital to our success this season.
 

I agree on EE. I do not agree on Mo. Mo looks to be about 90% of what i remember. He is not an athlete. He has always been slow, especially at 300 lbs. He has always been skilled. I hope and pray he can get his weight down to even 280, that would be an improvement. I commented last year that I could forsee Ingram playing more minutes than an out of shape Walker.
Notes from espn when he was recruited:
"October, 2009: A mountain disguised as a man, Walker has a huge frame and is absolutely immovable inside the paint. He uses his size and strength to consistently wear down the opposition, banging on both ends and clogging the lane defensively. He changes ends of the floor capably in straight lines but must improve his conditioning, has heavy feet laterally, and very little lift. Consequently, he's not much of a shot blocker and struggles defend the ball or hedge screens away from the basket." This was when he was listed at 270 lbs.

Bad Gopher said:
Right now, Mo is a shadow of himself from two years ago. That's concerning. I've been critical of EE, but the truth is we're going to need quality minutes from him the rest of the way out. I do think his energy can be beneficial off the bench, but he needs to commit to playing the game with some smarts and savvy. I haven't seen that yet. Tubby may be trying to light a fire under him.
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XMan said:
Thomas was a first round draft pick in the NBA and was an inside enforcer on one of our best teams ever. I would say he was a very good player.
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Thats fair. He was a 9 point 7 rebound (around there) for a excellent team. Probably the 5th or 6th scoring option, but a very physical player. I can see the argument for him being very good...
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
* Not sure how to define "VERY good player" exactly, but I think Elliot will score 10+ & grab 8+ boards a night as an upperclassman & perhaps be All-B1G during his career. Once Rodney, Trevor & Ingram leave there's no one else in front of him. I think he'll be our top big the next two years & just on minutes alone his numbers should go way up. Factor in added strength, experience and development and I think he'll be "VERY good".

* John Thomas is the same category as Rick Holman, the MCC transfer?

* EE will not be a "role player" as an Upperclassman. Elliot will be a full time starter the next two years & players get better.
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Fair enough...I just dont think he is a 10 and 8 guy on a good team, but opinions can differ, and he should see plenty of PT next year.

Jerry Holman - yes him and Thomas not the same player by any means, but I considered them both good players. I can hear the argument that Thomas was very good, just different ideas of what makes a player very good.

He should be a starter and get better. Do you think he will have a better career than Sampson did here? He was never a 10 and 8 player...

From your post, you do feel he is a better big than Sampson or Iverson were, right?
 




afurry91 said:
Today? Right now? You'd take Elliot over Ralph Sampson?

Ask me in two years. Right now it's not even close. Ralph every time.
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Do you not remember how much better the team played with Eliason than with Sampson last year? It's not all about talent. Sampson killed the flow of the offense and it hurt the team. Even if Eliason isn't as talented, he hustles and moves the ball so everyone else can get involved as oppose to sitting flat footed waiting for Sampson to miss a hook shot or struggle to pass out of a double team. I want the Gophers to win, and Eliason helps them do that more so than Sampson did.
 




gophergv said:
+1

Keep your head up EE. We need you. Look up what happened the last time the gophs had a 7 ft guy off the bench - Trevor winter. Final Four. It happened. I saw it.
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this. you can't teach size and you certainly can't teach capable size off the bench.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
EE will be needed from here on out. He's an active 7fter. An active 7fter is such a rare thing that people go to the NBA for that ability and that ability alone. Now, i'm not saying that EE is going to play in the NBA or anything like that, I'm just saying that EE is a big help to our entire team. I hope his offense improves and I hope he becomes a tad more "skilled", but I really like EE's style of play and I think he's absolutely vital to our success this season.
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Good post. Well said.
 

I just don't see EE as a better player than Sampson of Colt 45....

Although I can respect the argument for him, and hope he turns out to be a good B10 player, I would bet he does not become a better player that either of those two...
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Do you not remember how much better the team played with Eliason than with Sampson last year? It's not all about talent. Sampson killed the flow of the offense and it hurt the team. Even if Eliason isn't as talented, he hustles and moves the ball so everyone else can get involved as oppose to sitting flat footed waiting for Sampson to miss a hook shot or struggle to pass out of a double team. I want the Gophers to win, and Eliason helps them do that more so than Sampson did.
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I wholeheartedly agree. Sampson was always trying to live up to his potential but never realized it. He was a cog in the offensive flow and a good defender but a 5 playing like a 4 or a 3. RS3 was solid but flawed, and Tubby's faith in him slowed the team's development. I agree with Flip-- addition by subtraction this year.
 



If we can get the EE from the end of last season, I'd take him over Ralph and the Gophers' version of Colt. Hopefully Tubby's wake up call lights a fire under him.
 

I like some of the things EE brings...Once in a while he makes good passes from the high post down low. He blocks and alters many shots from opponents inside.

Things he needs to work on...Staying more in control. He often gets himself in awkward positions where he struggles to get both hands on rebounds. I've seen many times where he was in position to get a rebound but because he didn't maintain a proper base, he winds up having many rebounds bounce off one hand into opponents control. When he gets the ball in the offensive end. He has a tendancy to charge, travel and have the ball stripped away. He really needs to work on valueing the basketball a lot more. Get those hands on the ball and hold on for dear life. Sampson had the same problem and was probably stripped about 2 or 3 times a game. Whether it's just not having strong enough hands or simply being too careless, this is one of my biggest problems with EE. I'd love to see him work on a little move where he can get a little jump hook off from 4 to 6 feet. With an opposing big guarding him that would probably free up Rodney for offensive putbacks. Finally, I'd love to see him shooting an extra 150 to 200 FT's per day so we can get his FT % up around 70-75%. He will be a liability in the closing minutes of games if he doesn't improve his FT shooting.

I'm not sure if he can fix all of those things above this season but if he could just make some modest improvements in all areas, he'll be a huge asset for this team. We definitely need an improved version of EE to have a top 3 finish in the Big and a deep run in the NCAA.
 

I'll take EE over Ralph every day of the week, even after only 1 season compared to Ralph's 4. It's really apples to oranges because of the 4 years Ralph had to develop his game, but still if I was picking teams I'd pick EE over Ralph, 100%. Ralph was never active or aggressive, which EE is. EE does the things Ralph did like pass well & block shots, but does them while being aggressive & active. I also think he's potentially much better than Colt. Right now EE's game is about where Colt's game was at his peak for us. A big, rebounder, scrapper who's always in foul trouble. With Colt I saw him shoot the ball a couple times & thought "This guy has no touch & never will. He'll never be an offensive contributor beyond put backs & garbage points.", with EE I think "This guy's got decent touch, a semblance of a hook shot with either hand & with development, minutes & the green light to shoot he can be a stud in the B1G".

gopherbadgerman said:
He should be a starter and get better. Do you think he will have a better career than Sampson did here? He was never a 10 and 8 player...

From your post, you do feel he is a better big than Sampson or Iverson were, right?
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I wouldn't be shocked to see EE as a first round draft pick 3 years from now. Not saying it's a lock, but stranger things have happened. 7' players who can run the court, pass well, play aggressive & block shots don't grow on trees. If his post game develops, why not?

tinyarch said:
What specific skills in Elliot's game do you see that makes you think he'll be very good? When I read "very good" I think 1st round NBA draft pick. Perhaps that's not what you meant. I'd rather that you explain your evaluation than for me to guess at what you mean.
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Costa Rican Gopher said:
Right now EE's game is about where Colt's game was at his peak for us.
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Is everyone just conveniently forgetting his last two weeks of play?

The end of last season? Sure, he was about on par with Colt. Although at least Colt had the footwork to score, while Elliot was more of a scrapper.

This season? He has regressed thus far. Hence the 7 minutes he played against NDSU.

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I wouldn't be shocked to see EE as a first round draft pick 3 years from now.
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O my goodness.
 

Ralph & it's "not even close"? Wow. The team played so much better with Ralph out of the lineup & EE in during the NIT run last year it was night & day. On top of that Ralph basically quit on the team in that stretch. If I wasn't 100% sure Ralph had no heart before then (I was), the phantom knee injury sealed the deal.

afurry91 said:
Today? Right now? You'd take Elliot over Ralph Sampson?

Ask me in two years. Right now it's not even close. Ralph every time.
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The last two weeks of play mean nothing in the big picture. Players, especially young players & even more specifically big men have ups & downs while developing their games. EE's in a great spot because he's just a role player this season & will be able to help the team as such. Big picture though, he'll be our top big man the next two years after Rodney/Trevor/Ingram depart. We saw great progress from the beginning of EE's Freshman year to the end of it & I'm not throwing in the towel on him because he's taken some lumps at the beginning of his Soph season.

Paul Grant was a 1st round draft pick. Cherokee Parks was a 1st round pick. Rasho Nesterovic was a 1st round draft pick. The bottom half of the 1st round is filled with long shots & gambles. Again, if he continues to develop the next 3 season I wouldn't be shocked to see him drafted.

afurry91 said:
Is everyone just conveniently forgetting his last two weeks of play?

The end of last season? Sure, he was about on par with Colt. Although at least Colt had the footwork to score, while Elliot was more of a scrapper.

This season? He has regressed thus far. Hence the 7 minutes he played against NDSU.



O my goodness.
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Johnnyboy18 said:
How did someone not post Ralph is on a D-League team? What does Elliot do better than Ralph besides "hustle" at least Ralph was coordinated.
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But Elliot has so much heart and tenacity. I wouldn't trade that for anything in the world. It is priceless. His 10 minutes a game are so vital to the success of this team. We should bench Mbakwe for him because he starts the game with so much hustle that we just can't afford to give that up.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
How did someone not post Ralph is on a D-League team? What does Elliot do better than Ralph besides "hustle" at least Ralph was coordinated.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/41568/ralph-sampson-iii

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51536/elliott-eliason
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He allows for significantly better ball movement. The offense runs 100 times better when Eliason is in. Is Ralph more talented? Maybe. But who cares if he makes the offense stagnant and hurts the teams chances of winning. The other 4 players on the court (and the team as a whole) are much more productive when Eliason is on the floor. It isn't close.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
He allows for significantly better ball movement. The offense runs 100 times better when Eliason is in. Is Ralph more talented? Maybe. But who cares if he makes the offense stagnant and hurts the teams chances of winning. The other 4 players on the court (and the team as a whole) are much more productive when Eliason is on the floor. It isn't close.
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This the dumbest argument I've ever seen. Maybe Tubby wanted to go to Ralph in the post of course the other players get more opportunities Eliot has no offensive game. If Colton was better he would of played over Ralph no one was saying Colton was better when he transferred.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
This the dumbest argument I've ever seen. Maybe Tubby wanted to go to Ralph in the post of course the other players get more opportunities Eliot has no offensive game. If Colton was better he would of played over Ralph no one was saying Colton was better when he transferred.
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So you think Tubby determines exactly how much each player shoots and how long they hold onto the ball each time they touch it? Every player has their own style of play and their own tendencies. I think regardless of what Tubby says, Ralph would hold onto the ball more than Elliott and cause the offense to be more stagnant no matter what. When you have enough talent at all the other positions, I would rather have a center who passes well and kind of stays out of the way than one who slows everything down, throws everything out of rhythm, and basically ruins the offense. I don't know why that is dumb.
 

I just wish EE wouldn't complain after every foul he commits. It gets a little ridiculous to me. I mean Let's face it it's not going to change the reffs decision and I really don't want him to get a technical.
 



Costa Rican Gopher said:
The last two weeks of play mean nothing in the big picture. Players, especially young players & even more specifically big men have ups & downs while developing their games. EE's in a great spot because he's just a role player this season & will be able to help the team as such. Big picture though, he'll be our top big man the next two years after Rodney/Trevor/Ingram depart. We saw great progress from the beginning of EE's Freshman year to the end of it & I'm not throwing in the towel on him because he's taken some lumps at the beginning of his Soph season.

Paul Grant was a 1st round draft pick. Cherokee Parks was a 1st round pick. Rasho Nesterovic was a 1st round draft pick. The bottom half of the 1st round is filled with long shots & gambles. Again, if he continues to develop the next 3 season I wouldn't be shocked to see him drafted.
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Paul Grant could end up being a fair compairson, Parks no way IMO. Parks was nearly all ACC level player by his 2nd year. He would be considered the 2nd coming if he were putting up those kind of numbers.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
I wouldn't be shocked to see EE as a first round draft pick 3 years from now. Not saying it's a lock, but stranger things have happened. 7' players who can run the court, pass well, play aggressive & block shots don't grow on trees. If his post game develops, why not?
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Is there anyone on Tubby's staff that is known for developing people in the post?

I'd like to see Elliot build some muscle and strength to post up opponents. Right now Tubby uses him at the high post and has him look over the defense and try to hit cutters coming in from the baseline or wing. Rarely have I seen Elliot play with his back to the basket and make a move to hit a 5 footer. I'm not saying he can't develop that, but who, on Tubby's staff, is going to help him with those skills? I think of the various big men that Minnesota has had in the program and I'm not sure that Elliot even touches the top 10 unless there is a significant improvement in the next two years.

Is it possible that Elliot can develop into a 1st round draft pick? I suppose it's possible, but I haven't seen enough in his game to make me think he'll even be drafted. There are too many big men around both in the U.S. and overseas that a guy like Elliot may never see court time in the NBA. I will be happy if Elliot maintains his high/low passing ability and improves his rebounding skills. We'll need him to become that garbage scorer who taps in 8 to 12 points a game looking for missed shots.
 

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