Eliason Issue?

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colton

Johnnyboy18 said:
If Colton was better he would of played over Ralph no one was saying Colton was better when he transferred.
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You are dead wrong. Search my name. I knew colton could dominate if used correctly and I stated so numerous times. I for one believe that Ralph was promised the start if healthy. There were a handfull of games colton badly outplayed Ralph but he never got the start over him. They played together one season out of Tubby's stubborness to play less experienced players, but neither has the foot quickness to stay with any 4's.

EE has regressed so far this year. Last year he was more active for sure than Ralph. Weather he will ever be a post threat remains to be seen. Ralph was a horrible rebounder, he hated contact. He played like a finese small foward but he was way too slow for that type of game.
 

march madness said:
You are dead wrong. Search my name. I knew colton could dominate if used correctly and I stated so numerous times. I for one believe that Ralph was promised the start if healthy. There were a handfull of games colton badly outplayed Ralph but he never got the start over him. They played together one season out of Tubby's stubborness to play less experienced players, but neither has the foot quickness to stay with any 4's.

EE has regressed so far this year. Last year he was more active for sure than Ralph. Weather he will ever be a post threat remains to be seen. Ralph was a horrible rebounder, he hated contact. He played like a finese small foward but he was way too slow for that type of game.
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I don't think that is a fair assessment of EE. He is still a big, tall, aggressive, clumsy, emotional, immature sophomore, age 19 or 20. Does the term "roller coaster" sound familiar? This is EE, up and down. If it was you, Madness, it would be all down, an out of order roller coaster.
 

afurry91 said:
Is everyone just conveniently forgetting his last two weeks of play?

The end of last season? Sure, he was about on par with Colt. Although at least Colt had the footwork to score, while Elliot was more of a scrapper.

This season? He has regressed thus far. Hence the 7 minutes he played against NDSU.



O my goodness.
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I agree with everything here.
 

Iverson played like a lazy dog his junior year; I'll take EE any day, despite his current slump. His contributions, as well as the contributions of Julian Welch, are critical to this team's success.
 

I am not sure how old Eliason is but with his red shirt year he has to be at least 20 going on 21.
 


March madness continues to try to change history. We saw Iverson for three years and he played more than enough minutes to get a feel for his game. He was slow, no lateral quickness, no vertical explosion, poor footwork, no touch and a foul magnet. He was a physical banger with below average skill. Could only reliably score when Sampson dumped it down to him on high low.He was horrible against fast athletic teams especially teams that ran a lot of high pick and roll. Iverson had less than five good games in three years.March madness continues to post as if he was second coming of Bill Russell.
 

Hey Jumpstop I agree on all your points, except poor footwork. When Sampson got him the ball on the low post he could score. Imagine that. He was slow of foot and had iffy hands. He liked contact, but usually retaliated on being pushed and got called on it every time. I agree other than some dominating games he looked horrible and now he looks all conference in a lesser conference. So when he looked bad against athletic teams was it because Tubby had him playing the 4, or at the top of the key on offense, or on the wing in a 2-3 defense? I am just saying there are plenty of people who agree that Colton was not used right. I am glad he transfered and I would have taken him any day over Sampson.


jumpstop said:
March madness continues to try to change history. We saw Iverson for three years and he played more than enough minutes to get a feel for his game. He was slow, no lateral quickness, no vertical explosion, poor footwork, no touch and a foul magnet. He was a physical banger with below average skill. Could only reliably score when Sampson dumped it down to him on high low.He was horrible against fast athletic teams especially teams that ran a lot of high pick and roll. Iverson had less than five good games in three years.March madness continues to post as if he was second coming of Bill Russell.
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Wow saying EE has regressed this year has earned me this ire? I have defended him plenty. Just look at his stats. I have never said he isn't a big ten player or wont contribute, I have said the opposite. But go ahead I think you may have had too many drinks.

Dr.Don said:
I don't think that is a fair assessment of EE. He is still a big, tall, aggressive, clumsy, emotional, immature sophomore, age 19 or 20. Does the term "roller coaster" sound familiar? This is EE, up and down. If it was you, Madness, it would be all down, an out of order roller coaster.
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Do you expect anything less from Don? He just doesn't want to hear it. It's true though--and it's not hard to see--he's looked worse SO FAR this season.

march madness said:
Wow saying EE has regressed this year has earned me this ire? I have defended him plenty. Just look at his stats. I have never said he isn't a big ten player or wont contribute, I have said the opposite. But go ahead I think you may have had too many drinks.
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Iverson did not have the speed or quickness to play the center of that zone. Tubby required the 5 to cover baseline to baseline which Sampson did a pretty good job always near the top of the B10 in blocks. Zone was deficient because The Hoff and Iverson were not quick enough to cover their areas, hence they were killed with three point shooting.
 

We can agree to disagree. The quicker, less physical player, Sampson should have played the wing. Iverson, the guy who can box out, should have played the middle. Iverson was a decent shot blocker. More importantly though is not playing them together as neither was quick and they couldn't play man. I am looking forward to the season though and i'm not going to go on about it. Tubby did some things out of necessity with injuries, transfers, etc. Hopefully this team can avoid that and we won't have to scratch out heads.
 

afurry91 said:
But Elliot has so much heart and tenacity. I wouldn't trade that for anything in the world. It is priceless. His 10 minutes a game are so vital to the success of this team. We should bench Mbakwe for him because he starts the game with so much hustle that we just can't afford to give that up.
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It's not heart and tenacity, it's ACTIVITY.

EE's an active big man, which means his length brings about difficulty for a much larger radius than Sampson's length. Sampson was a 7fter who played small, in that he wasn't active enough to make a big impact (IMO). It's no surprise that our team played way better with Sampson than EE.

As far as Sampson being in the D-League....are we supposed to be impressed? A 7fter in the D-League? Really? I guess that proves he's better than EE.

IMO...I'd rather have EE than Ralph today, yesterday and especially going forward.
 

march madness said:
Wow saying EE has regressed this year has earned me this ire? I have defended him plenty. Just look at his stats. I have never said he isn't a big ten player or wont contribute, I have said the opposite. But go ahead I think you may have had too many drinks.
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I disagree with you that he's regressed, I think it's more of a matter of Ingram improving and Mbakwe being back. His stats are right in line with last year.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
His stats are right in line with last year.
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FG% dropped from .512 to .385. That's awesome.

And comparing the first 12 games of THIS year to the last 12 games of LAST year:
- His scoring has dropped from 2.92ppg to 2.5ppg
- His rebounding has dropped from 4.5rpg to 3.92rpg
 

You also have to take into account the competition when you look at those stats. Maybe he'll match up better in the BT, I don't know, but he's been destroyed by centers with quickness and any post moves. Just seems like his bad times this year stand out so much more than his bad times last year. Maybe there's a recency effect but he just seemed more consistent last year in the sense that there weren't as many ugly moments.

There will definitely be some games against quicker/smaller bigs where he's a mismatch and Ingram is the better option. With that said, he's still important to our success and I think he'll pick it up. We need him to cover some of the massive bigs and he's a solid shot-blocker. I also like that he knows his offensive limitations and essentially just sets screens and moves the ball. We have enough scorers this year anyway.

Bob_Loblaw said:
I disagree with you that he's regressed, I think it's more of a matter of Ingram improving and Mbakwe being back. His stats are right in line with last year.
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brucekaupa said:
FG% dropped from .512 to .385. That's awesome.

And comparing the first 12 games of THIS year to the last 12 games of LAST year:
- His scoring has dropped from 2.92ppg to 2.5ppg
- His rebounding has dropped from 4.5rpg to 3.92rpg
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Clearly right in line...
 

I think people are a bit too harsh on EE. It's hard enough to find a 7 footer who can walk and chew gum... EE contributes with rebounding, he defends, plays with effort, is pretty mobile for such a big player, and has shown himself to be a good passer.

I guess I'm just confused as to what people expect out of the 5 spot... We could certainly play Trevor at the 5 and go smaller... but Trevor is not a 5. Most teams do not have a 5 who can contribute at both ends of the floor. EE is a work in progress (as a SOPHOMORE), but he is by no means a below average center. There was a thread about how the 5 will be a weakness for us in the next few years and that just seems a bit shortsighted to me... But I'd love to hear the counterargument.
 

EE will make his contribution to the Team's success. Trust me.
 


JDGopher said:
I think people are a bit too harsh on EE. It's hard enough to find a 7 footer who can walk and chew gum... EE contributes with rebounding, he defends, plays with effort, is pretty mobile for such a big player, and has shown himself to be a good passer.

I guess I'm just confused as to what people expect out of the 5 spot... We could certainly play Trevor at the 5 and go smaller... but Trevor is not a 5. Most teams do not have a 5 who can contribute at both ends of the floor. EE is a work in progress (as a SOPHOMORE), but he is by no means a below average center. There was a thread about how the 5 will be a weakness for us in the next few years and that just seems a bit shortsighted to me... But I'd love to hear the counterargument.
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I would disagree with you. At this point in his young career he is most definitely a below average center. Any non gopher homer would say the same.
 

brucekaupa said:
I expect:
- Effort
- Continual improvement
- Not blaming others for your mistakes
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So, how does he compare with your expectations? Effort seems good, improvement is questionable (he improved dramatically last year, but I will agree with others in that I don't think he has progressed much so far this year- he seems about the same). Blaming others... he does whine, no argument there!

afurry91 said:
I would disagree with you. At this point in his young career he is most definitely a below average center. Any non gopher homer would say the same.
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Fair enough. I am a Gopher Homer, certainly, but I try to remain somewhat objective (I feel some of our players are overrated and others underrated/overly persecuted)... I do not believe he is a star (now, or in the making) but I think he's about where I'd expect him to be at this point in his career. I just don't have high expectations for most college 7 footers, and I think he's just fine. But perhaps we will just have to agree to disagree.

Can I ask you why you feel that he is a hindrance? I've skimmed the rest of the thread, so it's possible you already elaborated...
 

JDGopher said:
So, how does he compare with your expectations? Effort seems good, improvement is questionable (he improved dramatically last year, but I will agree with others in that I don't think he has progressed much so far this year- he seems about the same). Blaming others... he does whine, no argument there!


Fair enough. I am a Gopher Homer, certainly, but I try to remain somewhat objective (I feel some of our players are overrated and others underrated/overly persecuted)... I do not believe he is a star (now, or in the making) but I think he's about where I'd expect him to be at this point in his career. I just don't have high expectations for most college 7 footers, and I think he's just fine. But perhaps we will just have to agree to disagree.

Can I ask you why you feel that he is a hindrance? I've skimmed the rest of the thread, so it's possible you already elaborated...
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If Elliot becomes a serviceable center I would be ecstatic. I simply think the majority of Gopher fans choose certain players to "like" and certain players to "dislike" and they will ignore the stats because of one positive characteristic. In this case it is hustle, much like Nick Punto when he played for the twins. For some reason, Elliot can do no wrong in the eyes of Gopher fans. He hustles well and that is about all he can hang his hat on. His 3.9 rebounds per game against terrible competition, his 1 assist per game, and his 2.5 point per game to go along with his 39 percent field goal percentage will tell you that he truly is a below average big ten player.

We are about a third of the way into the season and the easy part of our schedule is behind us folks. Can Elliot bang with the big boys? The previous 13 games would tell us absolutely not.

What confuses me is that many of the posters here say that Maverick is just stat padding against crappy competition and will be terrible in the Big Ten. Well than what the heck can we expect from Mr. Elliason? He gets worked against Nodak and we are supposed to expect him to be better against Michigan State?

I don't mean to direct any hate towards Elliot. To his defense, he does work his butt off. This is more towards the people who sing praises about a kid that has not yet earned it. Like I've said previously, ask these same questions in two years. Is he better than Ralph and Colton? At this point, absolutely not. Not even close. Will he be when his career is over? It's certainly possible. Let's see what happens.
 

afurry91 said:
If Elliot becomes a serviceable center I would be ecstatic. I simply think the majority of Gopher fans choose certain players to "like" and certain players to "dislike" and they will ignore the stats because of one positive characteristic. In this case it is hustle, much like Nick Punto when he played for the twins. For some reason, Elliot can do no wrong in the eyes of Gopher fans. He hustles well and that is about all he can hang his hat on. His 3.9 rebounds per game against terrible competition, his 1 assist per game, and his 2.5 point per game to go along with his 39 percent field goal percentage will tell you that he truly is a below average big ten player.

We are about a third of the way into the season and the easy part of our schedule is behind us folks. Can Elliot bang with the big boys? The previous 13 games would tell us absolutely not.

What confuses me is that many of the posters here say that Maverick is just stat padding against crappy competition and will be terrible in the Big Ten. Well than what the heck can we expect from Mr. Elliason? He gets worked against Nodak and we are supposed to expect him to be better against Michigan State?

I don't mean to direct any hate towards Elliot. To his defense, he does work his butt off. This is more towards the people who sing praises about a kid that has not yet earned it. Like I've said previously, ask these same questions in two years. Is he better than Ralph and Colton? At this point, absolutely not. Not even close. Will he be when his career is over? It's certainly possible. Let's see what happens.
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Fair enough. He's certainly not much help on the offensive end. I guess I'm just a little more optimistic about his long-term prospects (mostly how I could see his junior and senior years playing out) and I am sure that does influence my current opinion on him. I think he'll re-establish himself as a solid, if unremarkable, big man for us by the end of this year- good D, rebounding, and not effort. We don't need much else from him. Hopefully he'll develop his offense more heading into next season.
 

A lot of discussion here about the merits of Elliot Eliason vice Gophers from the past. But I think the thread was meant to discuss why he didn't play against Lafayette. Has that question been answered yet?

Elliott will be a vital member of the team in the next 2 seasons, even if he will end up being more of a role player this season. Reasons for his DNP are important.
 

cncmin said:
A lot of discussion here about the merits of Elliot Eliason vice Gophers from the past. But I think the thread was meant to discuss why he didn't play against Lafayette. Has that question been answered yet?

Elliott will be a vital member of the team in the next 2 seasons, even if he will end up being more of a role player this season. Reasons for his DNP are important.
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YES...the point of this thread...and NO, not answered yet.
 

I know what the answer is, but I am not going to divulge it.
 



brucekaupa said:
FG% dropped from .512 to .385. That's awesome.

And comparing the first 12 games of THIS year to the last 12 games of LAST year:
- His scoring has dropped from 2.92ppg to 2.5ppg
- His rebounding has dropped from 4.5rpg to 3.92rpg
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He is now at 1.9ppg and 3.2rpg...

I would say it is fair to say he is regressing...
 

Elliot hasn't gotten much of a chance to prove himself, his rope is so short. I bet tomorrow they will need him he will match up well vs Becky! I hope he has a great game!
 

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