Doogie Tweet: Gophers Might Not Have All Their Regulars UPDATED: Croft won't play Sat

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Cruze said:
The players suspended before the EOAA Report was completed were suspended by Kaler and the AD because they were being investigated by the Minneapolis cops for suspected rape. It was strictly an action by the U's administration and Claeys played no role in those suspensions.

When the Hennepin County prosecutor didn't bring charges against the players they were all let back on the team even though at least a few of them were involved in providing alcohol to a high school recruit and setting up the gang bang for his benefit.

If that behavior wasn't a violation of team rules worthy of suspensions then Claeys (and Kill) were given far more credit than they deserved as coaches and leaders of a college football team.

Glen Mason said on more than one occasion on KFAN that he would have come down like a ton of bricks on every player who was with the high school recruit that night. Yet, Claeys was missing in action on that issue as well as the player boycott. He failed miserably as a leader of the young men on that team.

There is zero doubt that if Fleck had been coach last year there would have been multiple suspensions for violation of team rules aside from any penalties under the Student Code of Conduct. And Fleck would have done whatever was necessary to nip the player boycott in the bud, as well. It would have never become a huge story in the local and national media.

Mason also said on KFAN that if he was the coach he would have taken the first plane back from San Diego and told every player on the team that if any of them boycotted the bowl game they were done as a Gopher football player.
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Who gives a sh1t what Mason thinks or says about the Gophers? He hasn't been the coach for almost 11 years, and for that matter didn't even want the job while he had it. I'd love to hear what Les Steckel has to say about the Vikings.
 

Cruze said:
The players suspended before the EOAA Report was completed were suspended by Kaler and the AD because they were being investigated by the Minneapolis cops for suspected rape. It was strictly an action by the U's administration and Claeys played no role in those suspensions.

When the Hennepin County prosecutor didn't bring charges against the players they were all let back on the team even though at least a few of them were involved in providing alcohol to a high school recruit and setting up the gang bang for his benefit.

If that behavior wasn't a violation of team rules worthy of suspensions then Claeys (and Kill) were given far more credit than they deserved as coaches and leaders of a college football team.

Glen Mason said on more than one occasion on KFAN that he would have come down like a ton of bricks on every player who was with the high school recruit that night. Yet, Claeys was missing in action on that issue as well as the player boycott. He failed miserably as a leader of the young men on that team.

There is zero doubt that if Fleck had been coach last year there would have been multiple suspensions for violation of team rules aside from any penalties under the Student Code of Conduct. And Fleck would have done whatever was necessary to nip the player boycott in the bud, as well. It would have never become a huge story in the local and national media.

Mason also said on KFAN that if he was the coach he would have taken the first plane back from San Diego and told every player on the team that if any of them boycotted the bowl game they were done as a Gopher football player.
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You might as well quote me and what I would or would't have done. Hell, why not check in with my wife. Bears as much weight. We weren't the Gopher coach at that time either.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Fleck said Croft's personal issue happened after he named Rhoda the starter, so unless you don't believe Fleck's explanation, I don't see how it was something ongoing with him.
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I guess I just don't get your point. I don't care about the 100% accuracy of Fleck's statements. I was only saying that Croft probably did something outside of the rules and is getting punished. The timeline doesn't concern me. But, please, continue with your witch-hunt of the current coach of your favorite football team.
 

GopherHomer said:
I guess I just don't get your point. I don't care about the 100% accuracy of Fleck's statements. I was only saying that Croft probably did something outside of the rules and is getting punished. The timeline doesn't concern me. But, please, continue with your witch-hunt of the current coach of your favorite football team.
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Lighten up. Was commenting on your "ongoing" part, as if it played into Fleck's decision and announcement of Rhoda as starter. He said it didn't. You either believe it or you don't.

Sure, I don't have a man-crush on Fleck like you and others, but witch hunt? Please.
 



Cruze said:
When Bud Grant took over the Vikings in 1967, Paul Flatley was the team's best receiver. He played in the 1966 Pro Bowl. Flatley was also one of the team's leaders. During Grant's first training camp Flatley went to him and complained about something. I don't remember what the complaint was but Grant traded him to the Atlanta Falcons within 24 hours. Presumably, there were no more complaints by the players about anything for the rest of the year. And when years later Alan Page challenged Grant's authority he was traded to the Chicago Bears without so much as a goodbye. Football coaches who run their teams in a dictatorial manner have been around since the game was first invented.
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Big deal. Flatley had 23 catches on the year, was out of the league at 29 years of age. Page was on the decline of his career, certainly not the pinnacle.
Lousy example.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Big deal. Flatley had 23 catches on the year, was out of the league at 29 years of age. Page was on the decline of his career, certainly not the pinnacle.
Lousy example.
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Never expect a troll like Cruze to be reasonable or heaven forbid, accurate.

Alan Page thought the weight he carried was unhealthy. He started running and dropped down to 220 lbs or under. Grant thought that wasn't exactly Defensive tackle size and couldn't play well at that size.

Vikings tried to trade him but couldn't. The released him during the '78 season. He went to the Bears and Jim Finks. He played 3 more years there.

He wasn't as effective as he was with the Vikings. Who knows if it was age, wear and tear or his lighter size.
 

scools12 said:
No matter how it was phrased it was an attempt to imply some of the expectations are subjective and weren't clearly stated making it difficult for players. As pointed out it was another attempt to build up this particular poster's narrative that Fleck is failing as a head coach.

And it sounds like Fleck did communicate and did work with Richardson.
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When have I ever said Fleck was failing as a head coach? Never. Never. Never.

I don't agree with everything he says or does. That does not mean I believe he is "failing as a head coach."

As far as expectations being subjective. PF Fleck himself has said that playing time will be affected based on the "four areas" - academically, athletically, socially and spiritually.

Now, try to follow along here: you are a player for a college FB team. The coach says that you will not start, or your playing time is being reduced, because the coach believes you are not meeting his standards for social or spiritual development. How is that not subjective? Show me the clear-cut, delineated guidelines for spiritual development. They don't exist. It is wholly subjective.

Now, this next part is my opinion: I do not believe that a D1 football coach should be making judgments about his players "spiritual development." In my opinion, that falls completely outside the bounds of football. I do not have the right, or the wisdom, to judge anyone else's spiritual development. And you do not have the right, or the wisdom, to judge my spiritual development. Unless you are my minister, priest or rabbi. PJ Fleck is not a minister, priest or rabbi. Stick to offense, defense and special teams. Leave the spirituality to those who are qualified to delve into those areas of the human heart and psyche.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
When have I ever said Fleck was failing as a head coach? Never. Never. Never.

I don't agree with everything he says or does. That does not mean I believe he is "failing as a head coach."

As far as expectations being subjective. PF Fleck himself has said that playing time will be affected based on the "four areas" - academically, athletically, socially and spiritually.

Now, try to follow along here: you are a player for a college FB team. The coach says that you will not start, or your playing time is being reduced, because the coach believes you are not meeting his standards for social or spiritual development. How is that not subjective? Show me the clear-cut, delineated guidelines for spiritual development. They don't exist. It is wholly subjective.

Now, this next part is my opinion: I do not believe that a D1 football coach should be making judgments about his players "spiritual development." In my opinion, that falls completely outside the bounds of football. I do not have the right, or the wisdom, to judge anyone else's spiritual development. And you do not have the right, or the wisdom, to judge my spiritual development. Unless you are my minister, priest or rabbi. PJ Fleck is not a minister, priest or rabbi. Stick to offense, defense and special teams. Leave the spirituality to those who are qualified to delve into those areas of the human heart and psyche.
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I am pretty sure it is not some subjective spiritual thing. Just saying. I am sure it is something substantial and measurable and not some ambiguous offense.

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dpodoll68 said:
Who gives a sh1t what Mason thinks or says about the Gophers? He hasn't been the coach for almost 11 years, and for that matter didn't even want the job while he had it. I'd love to hear what Les Steckel has to say about the Vikings.
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Mason didn't quit. He was fired. He still lives here. He had sh-t facilities and a penny pinching AD. The worm turned on TCF stadium when Mason started lobbying at the Capitol. Did he want the Ohio State job? Absolutely, and who wouldn't. He had an AD that he didn't get along with. He did more with less than the majority of the coaches in the B1G.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Now, try to follow along here: you are a player for a college FB team. The coach says that you will not start, or your playing time is being reduced, because the coach believes you are not meeting his standards for social or spiritual development. How is that not subjective? Show me the clear-cut, delineated guidelines for spiritual development. They don't exist. It is wholly subjective.
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Just because the expectations haven't been fully explain to you does not mean there is some subjective interpretation for the players.

Your making an assumption and pushing the narrative these expectations haven't been clearly explained to the players and they are up to subjective interpretation by the coach.

If these expectations were wholly subjective as you seem to believe the mass exodus of players predicted would've happened. Doubt many players would appreciate an environment like that. The players know and understand what is expected of them.
 

Good lord, there sure is a lot of caterwauling, and parsing of language, and searching for hidden meanings and conspiracies. A player broke a team rule and was suspended. Simple story. It happens constantly in the world of D1 football.

One of Iowa's starting cornerbacks was suspended for the season opener. Fans shrugged and moved on. No big deal.

But I guess that's why we all enjoy message boards.
 

Urbandale said:
Good lord, there sure is a lot of caterwauling, and parsing of language, and searching for hidden meanings and conspiracies. A player broke a team rule and was suspended. Simple story. It happens constantly in the world of D1 football.

One of Iowa's starting cornerbacks was suspended for the season opener. Fans shrugged and moved on. No big deal.

But I guess that's why we all enjoy message boards.
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Thank you.

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Back on topic, other than Croft and possibly Weyler are there any regulars out for the game?
 

Urbandale said:
Good lord, there sure is a lot of caterwauling, and parsing of language, and searching for hidden meanings and conspiracies. A player broke a team rule and was suspended. Simple story. It happens constantly in the world of D1 football.

One of Iowa's starting cornerbacks was suspended for the season opener. Fans shrugged and moved on. No big deal.

But I guess that's why we all enjoy message boards.
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+1000


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short ornery norwegian said:
Now, try to follow along here: you are a player for a college FB team. The coach says that you will not start, or your playing time is being reduced, because the coach believes you are not meeting his standards for social or spiritual development. How is that not subjective? Show me the clear-cut, delineated guidelines for spiritual development. They don't exist. It is wholly subjective.
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The problem is, you're judging the coach's guidelines for his players based on a 30-second snippet from a press conference. I guarantee you Fleck goes into far more detail with his players about what his expectations are.

In my opinion, that falls completely outside the bounds of football. I do not have the right, or the wisdom, to judge anyone else's spiritual development. And you do not have the right, or the wisdom, to judge my spiritual development. Unless you are my minister, priest or rabbi. PJ Fleck is not a minister, priest or rabbi. Stick to offense, defense and special teams.
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He's already stated it doesn't have to do with religion.

And I don't believe a football coach should "stick to football." Like it or not, he's teaching these men about more than football. About how to be quality human beings (which apparently is frowned upon here). Maybe if another coach hadn't just stuck to football, he'd still be coaching here.
 


Anybody want to save me the trouble of reading through this dumpster fire of a thread and tell me if we know why he isn't playing yet?
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Mason didn't quit. He was fired. He still lives here. He had sh-t facilities and a penny pinching AD. The worm turned on TCF stadium when Mason started lobbying at the Capitol. Did he want the Ohio State job? Absolutely, and who wouldn't. He had an AD that he didn't get along with. He did more with less than the majority of the coaches in the B1G.
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Sounds like you made a donation to the statue...
 



alchemy2u said:
And we don't care!
It is always the same 4-5 people that turn everything into a way to criticize PJ. Get over it and enjoy the ride.


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I give PJ major props for all kinds of things and am very happy he's the coach. However, when he's been discussing Croft's leadership deficit since the summer, and recent comments seem to indicate the decision to have him take a break is not due to a one time incident, and this behavior was most likely at least a part of said leadership deficit then it seems that it at a minimum influenced PJ subconciously when he was deciding on playing time, the leaders of the team, and the starting QB. He's clearly dictated the 4 factors influence playing time.

PJ isn't above telling little white lies. It's ok...

Bottom line is we're anywhere from a marginally to significantly worse team at QB than we were a week ago, and we better pray Rhoda holds up. Croft... needs to screw his head on right because he seems to have used up the last of his get out of jail cards. I'm not real hopeful but who knows?
 

I think telling little white lies might be part of running a football program.
 

Face The Facts said:
I think telling little white lies might be part of life.
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There. If only Hollywood had produced a theatrical release featuring a man unable to tell little white lies.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/X6YLAmKFpRM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I give PJ major props for all kinds of things and am very happy he's the coach. However, when he's been discussing Croft's leadership deficit since the summer, and recent comments seem to indicate the decision to have him take a break is not due to a one time incident, and this behavior was most likely at least a part of said leadership deficit then it seems that it at a minimum influenced PJ subconciously when he was deciding on playing time, the leaders of the team, and the starting QB. He's clearly dictated the 4 factors influence playing time.

PJ isn't above telling little white lies. It's ok...

Bottom line is we're anywhere from a marginally to significantly worse team at QB than we were a week ago, and we better pray Rhoda holds up. Croft... needs to screw his head on right because he seems to have used up the last of his get out of jail cards. I'm not real hopeful but who knows?
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It is possible that Croft's behavior was concerning and impacted Fleck's opinion but did not cause him to make a decision. It is also possible that there was an incident in the last few days that caused Fleck to make a decision. Leadership is an art and not a science and sometimes decisions are not spelled out for you.

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rugger14 said:
It is possible that Croft's behavior was concerning and impacted Fleck's opinion but did not cause him to make a decision. It is also possible that there was an incident in the last few days that caused Fleck to make a decision. Leadership is an art and not a science and sometimes decisions are not spelled out for you.

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Agreed. Obviously there have been ongoing issues with Croft in regards to doing what needs to be done from a compliance and leadership aspect and something pushed Fleck past the limit early this week. Some say this behavior stretches back to last year prompting the question of whether someone at the department briefed Fleck on a possible disciplinary or behavioral situation at QB upon his arrival leading to Fleck quickly retaining Rhoda.

Pleasantly Rhoda has done very well and has the full reigns at this point. Fleck's tone during the press conference seemed to raise the possibility of Morgan playing if Green doesn't step up at the #2. Let's hope we don't have to find out during Big Ten play. In Rhoda we trust.
 

Academic, Athletic, Social, Spiritual...

If you break one of the 4, you will not play for PJF

Academic...would be pretty easy to figure out if he wasnt hitting his grades.
Athletic...He's one of the two best QB's on the team...PJF hasnt prevented Green from being with the team, while he was considered lesser than Croft athletically...so, this isnt the issue
Social...?

Spiritual...Some here are confusing spiritual with religion. Spiritual has nothing to do with whether you believe in Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, or whoever...its about being in the right state of mind. If (and its a big if, as no one knows for sure what the situation is) its something like weed keeping Croft from the team, its more about Croft being an expected leader of this team as a QB and not following the expectations of the coach...which would be spiritual (not being in the right state of mind).

I won't state what I believe the issue is, but I do feel its pretty easy to read between the lines.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Agreed. Obviously there have been ongoing issues with Croft in regards to doing what needs to be done from a compliance and leadership aspect and something pushed Fleck past the limit early this week. Some say this behavior stretches back to last year prompting the question of whether someone at the department briefed Fleck on a possible disciplinary or behavioral situation at QB upon his arrival leading to Fleck quickly retaining Rhoda.

Pleasantly Rhoda has done very well and has the full reigns at this point. Fleck's tone during the press conference seemed to raise the possibility of Morgan playing if Green doesn't step up at the #2. Let's hope we don't have to find out during Big Ten play. In Rhoda we trust.
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He seemed okay with the possibility of running out of QBs if none of them met the standards of the culture.

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I don't really see what the big argument is about.

Was the decision to name Rhoda 100% on the field related? Possibly but probably not.
Should it be? No.
Do I think Fleck is only punishing Croft because he is now a non-starter? That's a horrible take. No.
Do I blame PJ for fibbing (if it's the case) by saying Rhoda was named starter 100% based on the field? Heck no. We want to give Rhoda and his teammates as much confidence in his play as possible.

So, why are we fighting on this one?
 

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