Doogie Tweet: Gophers Might Not Have All Their Regulars UPDATED: Croft won't play Sat

[PMWinSTP]

I'm not going to attack you, but it is also just as likely that both Devers and Croft did something wrong and deserved to be removed from the lineup. Especially this year, I think Fleck would treat everybody exactly the same. Now, in two years, when the team is basically split between guys he recruited and holdovers from the previous staff your conspiracy theory may be more apt.

As for what Croft did/has done - I don't think any of us know...and its kind of unfair to speculate (but here I go): if it has been ongoing problem, I think it points to either grades or a substance use disorder.

Fleck said Croft's personal issue happened after he named Rhoda the starter, so unless you don't believe Fleck's explanation, I don't see how it was something ongoing with him.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Fleck said Croft's personal issue happened after he named Rhoda the starter, so unless you don't believe Fleck's explanation, I don't see how it was something ongoing with him.

Did he say an event happened after.... or did he say he made the decision on what to do after?

I thought he indicated that that the decision on the starter came first. Then later they dealt with whatever happened. I don't think Fleck ever said when he knew what or the timing of any specific event or such.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I thought multiple players did not participate in multiple games before the EOAA report was finished? My memory goes in & out often though, so you can correct me if I'm wrong.....

Edit: Damn you, dpodoll, beat me to it....you're quicker than a cat!

It's a tired trolling bit from Cruze. Don't feed the troll.

 

[Cruze]

Fleck said Croft's personal issue happened after he named Rhoda the starter, so unless you don't believe Fleck's explanation, I don't see how it was something ongoing with him.

The AP reporter who is a regular guest on KFAN and KSTP said there have been problems with Croft that go back to Claeys and maybe Kill. He didn't go into detail about what the problems were.

 

[Word]

I've never before read one of your posts that didn't include the term "gang bang." Well done!

Or due process.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Did he say an event happened after.... or did he say he made the decision on what to do after?

I thought he indicated that that the decision on the starter came first. Then later they dealt with whatever happened. I don't think Fleck ever said when he knew what or the timing of any specific event or such.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/09/12/gophers-quarterback-demry-croft-to-be-away-from-team/

On Monday, Fleck named Conor Rhoda the starting quarterback after a battle with Croft that lasted throughout preseason camp and into the first two games of the season. Fleck said the decision to start Rhoda was made prior to Croft’s issues.
“Absolutely, this is not a reaction to what had happened,” Fleck said. “… Conor was informed of (being named the starter) before.”

 

[PMWinSTP]

The AP reporter who is a regular guest on KFAN and KSTP said there have been problems with Croft that go back to Claeys and maybe Kill. He didn't go into detail about what the problems were.

See post #186.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

http://www.twincities.com/2017/09/12/gophers-quarterback-demry-croft-to-be-away-from-team/

On Monday, Fleck named Conor Rhoda the starting quarterback after a battle with Croft that lasted throughout preseason camp and into the first two games of the season. Fleck said the decision to start Rhoda was made prior to Croft’s issues.
“Absolutely, this is not a reaction to what had happened,” Fleck said. “… Conor was informed of (being named the starter) before.”

Is "croft's issues" an event or when they became aware of it?

Not that it matters either way.

I think PJ's timing statement was more to say Rhoda was chosen first and on his own merits rather than trying to give us a timeline of whatever happened that he doesn't want to talk about (understandably).

 

[Cruze]

nm

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

Side matter.. What do you think the chances are of Green seeing a snap?

Zero unless there is injury or really bad performance issue (and I don't want to even consider that) ?

I would love to see the Gophers build a good lead and see Green and other backups in the second half. I would say 30% chance of that in this game (might be too close).

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I would love to see the Gophers build a good lead and see Green and other backups in the second half. I would say 30% chance of that in this game (might be too close).

That and PJ might feel that with this teams confidence level and the noobs on the team.... might be best to get as much time as possible for the starters.

 

[howeda7]

Side matter.. What do you think the chances are of Green seeing a snap?

Zero unless there is injury or really bad performance issue (and I don't want to even consider that) ?

Hopefully good because we're up 3 scores in the 4th quarter. If the Croft issue is long-term then obviously Green is not red-shirting. May as well get him in there.

 

[Word]

Hopefully good because we're up 3 scores in the 4th quarter. If the Croft issue is long-term then obviously Green is not red-shirting. May as well get him in there.

He already redshirted last year so it's a moot point.

 

[hungan1]

I would love to see the Gophers build a good lead and see Green and other backups in the second half. I would say 30% chance of that in this game (might be too close).

So, who will be behind Seth Green assuming Fleck does not want to burn Tanner Morgan's RS?
19 Pickerign, Sam QB 6-4 224 FR Alpharetta, Ga. (Minnehaha Academy)
17 Green, Seth QB 6-4 229 RS FR Woodbury, Minn. (Allen HS)
14 Roste, Jaran QB 6-3 234 FR Alexandria, Minn. (Alexandria HS)
13 Morgan, Tanner QB 6-2 205 FR Union, Ky. (Ryle HS)
15 Rhoda, Conor QB 6-3 225 RS SR Eagan, Minn. (Cretin-Derham Hall HS)
11 Croft, Demry QB 6-5 205 RS SO Rockford, Ill. (Boylan HS)

 

[Taji34]

Hopefully good because we're up 3 scores in the 4th quarter. If the Croft issue is long-term then obviously Green is not red-shirting. May as well get him in there.

He already took a red shirt year . . .

 

[Mulligan]

Hopefully, all of this has been clearly explained to the players, and they understand the consequences. But, as a fan watching from the outside, it seems a little fuzzy. breaking team rules is clean-cut - you either broke a rule or you didn't. But the culture stuff is subjective - it's based on the coach's evaluation of social or spiritual issues - which are not so black-and-white or clean-cut. Now - to be clear - it's Fleck's program, and he has every right to set standards. I can see, though, why it might be difficult for some players to understand what those standards are, if they are based on subjective observations. It's like the old joke about the guy who got caught cheating on his philosophy test. he peeked at the soul of the person at the next desk.

I would guess this has been very clearly explained to players. You keep acting like PJ has to worry about whether or not we fans have to be informed clearly about everything. We're going to wonder and speculate, but this is being blown way out of proportion by some. Expectations weren't met; player isn't playing; player deserves some protection of privacy; PJ is now running the ship. Doesn't need the reading of tea leaves some are putting into this. As for the "culture stuff," this isn't that different than Kill making players who screwed up wear those special T-shirts. Football coaches are autocrats--ain't a sport where players do their own thing. .

 

[Cruze]

Originally Posted by FireDaveLee

I thought multiple players did not participate in multiple games before the EOAA report was finished? My memory goes in & out often though, so you can correct me if I'm wrong.....

Edit: Damn you, dpodoll, beat me to it....you're quicker than a cat!

The players suspended before the EOAA Report was completed were suspended by Kaler and the AD because they were being investigated by the Minneapolis cops for suspected rape. It was strictly an action by the U's administration and Claeys played no role in those suspensions.

When the Hennepin County prosecutor didn't bring charges against the players they were all let back on the team even though at least a few of them were involved in providing alcohol to a high school recruit and setting up the gang bang for his benefit.

If that behavior wasn't a violation of team rules worthy of suspensions then Claeys (and Kill) were given far more credit than they deserved as coaches and leaders of a college football team.

Glen Mason said on more than one occasion on KFAN that he would have come down like a ton of bricks on every player who was with the high school recruit that night. Yet, Claeys was missing in action on that issue as well as the player boycott. He failed miserably as a leader of the young men on that team.

There is zero doubt that if Fleck had been coach last year there would have been multiple suspensions for violation of team rules aside from any penalties under the Student Code of Conduct. And Fleck would have done whatever was necessary to nip the player boycott in the bud, as well. It would have never become a huge story in the local and national media.

Mason also said on KFAN that if he was the coach he would have taken the first plane back from San Diego and told every player on the team that if any of them boycotted the bowl game they were done as a Gopher football player.

 

[alchemy2u]

trying to find the middle ground here:

I understand the need for team rules, and I understand that actions have consequences.

But, with Fleck, there seems to be a grey area. ...........
.

So where did you come up with this grey area? Just because you are not familiar with the details of the situation doesn't mean that it is not clear to those that are involved. You keep trying to build up these fantasy scenarios on how PJ is failing as a coach.
It all seems very clear, a player does something that the coach determines warrants his remove from the team for a period of time. You, as a fan, do not have the right, nor the privilege to know the details. Hopefully it will get straightened out soon and he can rejoin the team. Until then, I bet the player knows exactly what he did wrong and how to correct it in the eyes of the coach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dpodoll68]

I would love to see the Gophers build a good lead and see Green and other backups in the second half. I would say 30% chance of that in this game (might be too close).

We didn't see backups until the tail end of the Oregon St. game, and we won by 34. It's certainly possible, but I don't think we win this game by that much. If Stockstill is hurt, all bets are off, but if he isn't, I say we win by somewhere in the 14-17 point range.

 

[scools12]

trying to find the middle ground here:

I understand the need for team rules, and I understand that actions have consequences.

But, with Fleck, there seems to be a grey area.

As I understand it, players can be suspended or face other forms of discipline for breaking team rules. that's pretty clean-cut.

But, there seems to be a second layer of consequences based on the team culture, or whether a player is meeting Fleck's standards academically, athletically, socially or spiritually. That is not so clean-cut - at least not to me. Fleck has said that playing time may be affected if a player does not meet his standards in the four areas. That may - or may not - have anything to do with team rules.

Hopefully, all of this has been clearly explained to the players, and they understand the consequences. But, as a fan watching from the outside, it seems a little fuzzy. breaking team rules is clean-cut - you either broke a rule or you didn't. But the culture stuff is subjective - it's based on the coach's evaluation of social or spiritual issues - which are not so black-and-white or clean-cut. Now - to be clear - it's Fleck's program, and he has every right to set standards. I can see, though, why it might be difficult for some players to understand what those standards are, if they are based on subjective observations. It's like the old joke about the guy who got caught cheating on his philosophy test. he peeked at the soul of the person at the next desk.

This is a ridiculously poor attempt at trying to take a shot at the head coach.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Is "croft's issues" an event or when they became aware of it?

Not that it matters either way.

I think PJ's timing statement was more to say Rhoda was chosen first and on his own merits rather than trying to give us a timeline of whatever happened that he doesn't want to talk about (understandably).

It's pretty clear Fleck made the point that the selection of Rhoda as the starter was prior to Croft's issues to emphasize that it could not have been part of the decision consideration.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Side matter.. What do you think the chances are of Green seeing a snap?

Zero unless there is injury or really bad performance issue (and I don't want to even consider that) ?

Love for Gophs to have a comfortable enough lead for Seth to get some snaps.

 

[bizzle22]

Is "croft's issues" an event or when they became aware of it?

Not that it matters either way.

I think PJ's timing statement was more to say Rhoda was chosen first and on his own merits rather than trying to give us a timeline of whatever happened that he doesn't want to talk about (understandably).

I tend to agree. My read is that PJ wanted to make it clear that Rhoda wasn't given the job by default, but that he earned it with his play on the field.

I have no inside info when it comes to the football team so I don't know if there had been problems with Croft in the past or not. Someone mentioned him kicking in a dorm room door after the OSU game. I have no idea if that is true or not, but it's very possible that the door-kicking thing is true and DC was on a short leash. Maybe he failed a drug test on Sunday (possibly not for the first time), didn't show up for a class on Monday, or got into some more minor trouble again over the weekend that the coaching staff became aware of on Monday or Tuesday. That's all speculation, but I think it makes sense.

I don't have a problem with Fleck playing it close to the vest when it comes to discipline. If there were previous issues it doesn't do anyone any good to make that information public. Discipline him, tell everyone he is away from the team or whatever, and keep the rest is private. That's fine with me. 18-22 year olds are still learning how to be adults, and they are going to make mistakes as they figure it out, some mistakes bigger than others. Unless it is a criminal issue I don't think we need to know.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It's pretty clear Fleck made the point that the selection of Rhoda as the starter was prior to Croft's issues to emphasize that it could not have been part of the decision consideration.

And...I don't believe him.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

This is a ridiculously poor attempt at trying to take a shot at the head coach.

How is it a shot? Pretty clearly stated as an outsider looking in it isn't clear but may be clear to the players.

Coaches can be as capricious as they want to be, even Saint PJ. I'm not saying that's the case here and I don't believe it is. But I go back to his press conference where he said he and Richardson are opposite personalities and Richardson almost left the team over it and I couldn't believe it. They seem to have worked everything out now. Embrace the characters on the team, communicate with them, work with them. Not everyone can be or should be like PJ. When one of the best players can't get along with the coach and is alienated whose problem is that? Depends.

 

[Urbandale]

The players suspended before the EOAA Report was completed were suspended by Kaler and the AD because they were being investigated by the Minneapolis cops for suspected rape. It was strictly an action by the U's administration and Claeys played no role in those suspensions.

When the Hennepin County prosecutor didn't bring charges against the players they were all let back on the team even though at least a few of them were involved in providing alcohol to a high school recruit and setting up the gang bang for his benefit.

If that behavior wasn't a violation of team rules worthy of suspensions then Claeys (and Kill) were given far more credit than they deserved as coaches and leaders of a college football team.

Glen Mason said on more than one occasion on KFAN that he would have come down like a ton of bricks on every player who was with the high school recruit that night. Yet, Claeys was missing in action on that issue as well as the player boycott. He failed miserably as a leader of the young men on that team.

There is zero doubt that if Fleck had been coach last year there would have been multiple suspensions for violation of team rules aside from any penalties under the Student Code of Conduct. And Fleck would have done whatever was necessary to nip the player boycott in the bud, as well. It would have never become a huge story in the local and national media.

Mason also said on KFAN that if he was the coach he would have taken the first plane back from San Diego and told every player on the team that if any of them boycotted the bowl game they were done as a Gopher football player.

I knew you'd be back!

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

We didn't see backups until the tail end of the Oregon St. game, and we won by 34. It's certainly possible, but I don't think we win this game by that much. If Stockstill is hurt, all bets are off, but if he isn't, I say we win by somewhere in the 14-17 point range.

Good points.

 

[Dano564]

This is a ridiculously poor attempt at trying to take a shot at the head coach.

PJ said it yesterday. If you embrace the culture, everything else is easy.

Embrace the culture, put others first, don't do anything stupid.
You're not going to get into trouble.

And make sure your attitude doesn't stink.

How much of a gray area do you need.

 

[scools12]

How is it a shot? Pretty clearly stated as an outsider looking in it isn't clear but may be clear to the players.

No matter how it was phrased it was an attempt to imply some of the expectations are subjective and weren't clearly stated making it difficult for players. As pointed out it was another attempt to build up this particular poster's narrative that Fleck is failing as a head coach.

And it sounds like Fleck did communicate and did work with Richardson.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I tend to agree. My read is that PJ wanted to make it clear that Rhoda wasn't given the job by default, but that he earned it with his play on the field.

I have no inside info when it comes to the football team so I don't know if there had been problems with Croft in the past or not. Someone mentioned him kicking in a dorm room door after the OSU game. I have no idea if that is true or not, but it's very possible that the door-kicking thing is true and DC was on a short leash. Maybe he failed a drug test on Sunday (possibly not for the first time), didn't show up for a class on Monday, or got into some more minor trouble again over the weekend that the coaching staff became aware of on Monday or Tuesday. That's all speculation, but I think it makes sense.

I don't have a problem with Fleck playing it close to the vest when it comes to discipline. If there were previous issues it doesn't do anyone any good to make that information public. Discipline him, tell everyone he is away from the team or whatever, and keep the rest is private. That's fine with me. 18-22 year olds are still learning how to be adults, and they are going to make mistakes as they figure it out, some mistakes bigger than others. Unless it is a criminal issue I don't think we need to know.

Well, it's in his presser, so go watch it. Seemed crystal clear to me.