Doogie: Tubby missing out on recruits is being underplayed by local media

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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Doogie was just on 1500AM and was very critical of Tubby's recruiting at Minnesota. He said there is a list of at least 20-25 recruits that Tubby has "swung and missed on" and cited Alex Kirk at New Mexico and Tim Hardaway Jr. as examples of guys that Tubby has offered but didn't land.

Doogie said that the local media has underplayed this.

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
Doogie was just on 1500AM and was very critical of Tubby's recruiting at Minnesota. He said there is a list of at least 20-25 recruits that Tubby has "swung and missed on" and cited Alex Kirk at New Mexico and Tim Hardaway Jr. as examples of guys that Tubby has offered but didn't land.

Doogie said that the local media has underplayed this.

Go Gophers!!
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There's only so much you can critisize a guy for in an hour. After all the talk about transfers, tournament wins, poor defense, poor offense, record without including Iowa, the silence of the barn, only having one good player, how overrated other players are, how weak the team is, poor subsituting, being too old, being too tough, telling him to stop complaining when he never did, throwing players under the bus, the players he did sign, the media also has to have time to call Trevor a satanic human being, not recruiting enough PG's, Al Nolen getting hurt, Trevor getting hurt, no tournament wins, no final four's, no championships, complaining for a practice facility, Maturi not building a practice facility, complaining about walking across the street to lift weights, not deserving a contract extension, already making too much money, being lazy, recruting Royce White when he should have known he was trouble, ...

well, not a lot of time left for the media to bash specific players he missed on with recruiting too.

(That was a much longer list than I thought I'd get, no wonder the MN media is so well paid they've got a lot of work to do with how awful Tubby is!)
 

Bravo.....

4 years of Doogie, Souhan and Ruesse boiled down nicely! They are more predictable than Tubby by a long shot.
 

And BTW, the wonderful coach Calipari at recruiting heaven UK has already missed for 2012 on: Mitch McGary (Michigan), Isiah Austin (Baylor), Brandon Ashley (Arizona), Kaleb Tarczewski (Arizona), Gary Harris (MSU), DaJuan Coleman (Syracuse), Ricardo Ledo (Providence) ... and I don't feel like looking any more up.

Point is, no coach gets 100% of the guys they offer (probably not even 50%) and to suggest that Tubby should is ridiculous.

And speaking of Alex Kirk and Tim Hardaway Jr.

Alex Kirk: 3-Star C (#12)
Tubby's replacement: Maurice Walker 3-Star C (#13)

Damn you Tubby! You missed on the #12 Center and got #13 uggggggggggggggggggh and then had the audacity to recruit another 3-Star center in the same class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Elliot Eliason - Whom everyone has been raving about after the V. Tech game. Including Bob Knight)

Tim Hardaway Jr.: 3-Star SG (NR)
Tubby's replacement: Austin Hollins: 3-Star SG (NR)

DAMN YOU AGAIN TUBBY!

Last season Tubby had the nerve to miss on the #19 PG, Naadir Tharpe (To Kansas) ... and then he was a real jerk and signed the #31 PG of the same class. what. a. failure! Those 11 spots surely means never making another tournament :(

Can we fire this guy already?
 

After the self-plaigiarism incident you'd think he would let this die.

Ricky Kreklow is a savior!!!
 


scher215 said:
And BTW, the wonderful coach Calipari at recruiting heaven UK has already missed for 2012 on: Mitch McGary (Michigan), Isiah Austin (Baylor), Brandon Ashley (Arizona), Kaleb Tarczewski (Arizona), Gary Harris (MSU), DaJuan Coleman (Syracuse), Ricardo Ledo (Providence) ... and I don't feel like looking any more up.

Point is, no coach gets 100% of the guys they offer (probably not even 50%) and to suggest that Tubby should is ridiculous.

And speaking of Alex Kirk and Tim Hardaway Jr.

Alex Kirk: 3-Star C (#12)
Tubby's replacement: Maurice Walker 3-Star C (#13)

Damn you Tubby! You missed on the #12 Center and got #13 uggggggggggggggggggh and then had the audacity to recruit another 3-Star center in the same class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Elliot Eliason - Whom everyone has been raving about after the V. Tech game. Including Bob Knight)

Tim Hardaway Jr.: 3-Star SG (NR)
Tubby's replacement: Austin Hollins: 3-Star SG (NR)

DAMN YOU AGAIN TUBBY!

Last season Tubby had the nerve to miss on the #19 PG, Naadir Tharpe (To Kansas) ... and then he was a real jerk and signed the #31 PG of the same class. what. a. failure! Those 11 spots surely means never making another tournament :(

Can we fire this guy already?
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A round of applause for you sir.:clap: Well played.
 

Oh, I forgot to add to my list above the fact that the Gophers have so many awkward wins.
 

scher215 said:
Oh, I forgot to add to my list above the fact that the Gophers have so many awkward wins.
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Doogie is also infamous for not giving Tubby credit for Iowa wins. I wonder when Doogie's first article saying that Kill has a 1-6 Big Ten record since Doogie doesn't count Iowa wins in the same vain.
 

Stan said:
Awkward win was Phil Mackey. Doogie is infamous for not giving Tubby credit for Iowa wins. I wonder when Doogie's first article saying that Kill has a 1-6 Big Ten record since Doogie doesn't count Iowa wins in the same vain.
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I know it wasn't Doogie with the awkward win comment. He just mentioned the MN media has ignored all the guys that Tubby has missed on, so just saying what else they've been busy complaining about instead. Awkward wins is one thing.
 





MN has produced two notable recruits in Tubby's tenure so far, Royce White and Rodney Williams. Yeah, he's really wiffed on the top local recruits. Of course he's not going to sign all of the local second level guys and some of them will go on to nice careers, so let's make a list of the best of those and talk about what a moron he is.
 

The problem isn't that he misses on a recruit or two, the problem is that he is ending up with the same caliber of player his predecessors were recruiting. He was brought in to raise the level of player and that hasn't happened. He recruits the same level of kid and is ending up with the same finish in the conference. And while injuries are not his fault, transfers are. These kids routinely say the main reason they play for a school is the coach. So if they're there because of the coach they are also leaving because of him. If a player leaves and he is replaced with a better player, fine. But to replace them with leftovers is not.
 




Nicely laid out scher215 -

Good to know that the press basically has a "What to Bitch About with Tubby" Checklist.

You know, I'm not asking the local media to be all sunshine and rainbows with Tubby or the Gophs. But a little perspective and balance would be nice. I think some who generally like Souhan, Reusse, Doogie, etc. think we're all just haters, but really I'd just like them to surprise me once in awhile and have them say, "you know what, despite some of the problems/troubles, that was a solid win".
 

Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
Nicely laid out scher215 -

Good to know that the press basically has a "What to Bitch About with Tubby" Checklist.

You know, I'm not asking the local media to be all sunshine and rainbows with Tubby or the Gophs. But a little perspective and balance would be nice. I think some who generally like Souhan, Reusse, Doogie, etc. think we're all just haters, but really I'd just like them to surprise me once in awhile and have them say, "you know what, despite some of the problems/troubles, that was a solid win".
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I don't know how someone can say- "he should have gotten this guy or that guy" without inside knowledge.

The only thing we can really do is evaluate:

-Does he put enough talent on the floor?
-Does he have the right blend of talent- a well balanced roster?
-What do the recruits say about our recruiting?

On this last one I think the Tubby name gets us in the door to guys that would not give us a look- and that's a big, big positive. On the negative side- we do hear a lot of feedback from recruits that they heaerd from Tubby late or are uncertain as to our level of interest.
 

You're never going to get all 4/5* players at Minnesota. What you need is the occasional 4/5* player to go with other players. I think his first two recruiting classes were very good, Bostick, Carter, Sampson, Iverson, Joseph, White, Williams, Cobbs, and Mbwake are excellent. The problem is that more than half left for one reason or another. The early departures caused some very late in the process recruiting efforts. Recruiting has tapered a bit the last couple of years. A little development and on court success and it would be back to where it was.

This team isn't bad, Eliason is much better than I expected, Andre Hollins is going to develop into a very good player, if Austin Hollins can get confidence in his shot he could be very successfull, Armelin is developing, Osenieks has shown signs he could be good, Walker when healthy? If this group can stay together a few years they are going to be pretty good. May not be final four material but certainly competitive in the Big Ten.
 


Don't forget this knock on Tubby ... Because Tubby is rather soft spoken when on the radio, it's sometimes hard to hear what Tubby is saying.... Not sure if the radio guys need to turn up the volume or Tubby needs to speak louder. But this is a big issue for the future of the program... :) Maybe Doogie should address this as well?? Or Jim (it's a lock - Tubby to Oregon) Souhan. I'll give Sidney a pass on this because he can't hear what Tubby has to say even if Tubby were standing right next to Sid, even though Sid says that Starkey has improved his hearing greatly!
 

Alex Kirk seems like a good player to miss on
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Surgery for a herniated disk.

I thought, also, that there was little chance that Hardaway Jr would have signed anywhere else but Michigan. I don't think Tubby or anyone else had much of a shot at him.
 

Doogie likes to cherry pick with Tubby's record vs. Iowa. That's fine. ... we all have our "things".

My "thing" is cherry picking how the Gophers have competed away from Williams Arena vs. quality opposition, which I define as NCAA qualifiers. In that regard is where I have seen this program make the greatest strides.

We're not where I expected to be 4+ years in with Tubby, I can't refute that. I'm frustrated especially by our inability to protect the home court like we did for much of Clem's tenure, as well as our current standing in the B1G pecking order, but I'm not in the gloom & doom crowd. Here are some numbers I like to lean on. These are numbers compiled since 2000:

Gophers Overall Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road: 2-56 (3.4%)
1. Tubby Smith vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road: 2-17 (10.5%)
2. Dan Monson vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road: 0-39 (0%)

Gophers Overall Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Neutral: 7-15 (31.8%)
1. Tubby Smith vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Neutral: 7-5 (58.3%)
2. Dan Monson vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Neutral: 0-10 (0%)

Overall Record vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road & Neutral Combined: 9-71 (11.3%)
1. Tubby Smith vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road & Neutral Combined: 9-22 (29%)
2. Dan Monson vs. NCAA Qualifiers/Road & Neutral Combined: 0-49 (.0000)

In case you're wondering, those 9 wins (away from Williams) are:

1. vs. Indiana (2007-08 B1G Tournament)
2. vs. Louisville (2008-09)
3. @ Wisconsin (2008-09)
4. vs. Butler (2009-10)
5. vs. Michigan State (2009-10 B1G Tournament)
6. vs. Purdue (2009-10 B1G Tournament)
7. vs. North Carolina (2010-11)
8. vs. West Virginia (2010-11)
9. @ Michigan (2010-11)

My California math says that's an average of 2.25 per season, after going 8 seasons (1999-00 through 2006-07) without a single one. Something right has happened within the program in the last 4 seasons. There has been progress, it just hasn't happened at the rate we all would like.
 

bga1 said:
I don't know how someone can say- "he should have gotten this guy or that guy" without inside knowledge.

The only thing we can really do is evaluate:

-Does he put enough talent on the floor?
-Does he have the right blend of talent- a well balanced roster?
-What do the recruits say about our recruiting?

On this last one I think the Tubby name gets us in the door to guys that would not give us a look- and that's a big, big positive. On the negative side- we do hear a lot of feedback from recruits that they heaerd from Tubby late or are uncertain as to our level of interest.
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Agreed on all counts bga1 - true 'insider info' is the only way we could know who Tubby really should or shouldn't have gotten to come to the U. And that info may be privy only to the recruit, his family, and the coaching staff. Recruit feedback is part of that knowledge, but even that may be tainted with hindsight.

I have to belive that Tubby's name and stature absolutely gets us in the door. I doubt either of the Hollins would have given Monson a sniff of their time.
 

bga1 said:
I don't know how someone can say- "he should have gotten this guy or that guy" without inside knowledge.

The only thing we can really do is evaluate:

-Does he put enough talent on the floor?
-Does he have the right blend of talent- a well balanced roster?
-What do the recruits say about our recruiting?

On this last one I think the Tubby name gets us in the door to guys that would not give us a look- and that's a big, big positive. On the negative side- we do hear a lot of feedback from recruits that they heaerd from Tubby late or are uncertain as to our level of interest.
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Just curious, where have you heard this? I haven't yet.
 

I bet you didnt have this many top 150 at once one time during the Monson era... Walker, Mbakwe, Sampson, Hollins, Williams, Coleman were all top 150 players.. Osineks, Elliason and Austin all had Major D1 offers and could very easily been top 150 players. that's 6 top 150 players.. and 3 that easily could have been. Welch and Ingram are pretty good players as well for juco's. don't tell me you had that kind of talent before Tubby because you didn't.
 

notagopherfan said:
I bet you didnt have this many top 150 at once one time during the Monson era... Walker, Mbakwe, Sampson, Hollins, Williams, Coleman were all top 150 players.. Osineks, Elliason and Austin all had Major D1 offers and could very easily been top 150 players. that's 6 top 150 players.. and 3 that easily could have been. Welch and Ingram are pretty good players as well for juco's. don't tell me you had that kind of talent before Tubby because you didn't.
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We had Kris Humphries? Lol
 

SelectionSunday said:
My California math says that's an average of 2.25 per season, after going 8 seasons (1999-00 through 2006-07) without a single one. Something right has happened within the program in the last 4 seasons. There has been progress, it just hasn't happened at the rate we all would like.
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Bingo, some seem to want to act like we're at the exact same level as we were prior to Tubby's arrival. That's just not true. BUT, we're not where it seems we should be considering his pedigree. And that goes virtually all on the defections that have occurred. Not getting full eligibility from 3 of the 5 recruits in his first class, plus what looks like 3 of the 4 (including Mbakwe) he recruited in his 2nd class has completely killed any potential big time momentum that could have been built up. So yeah, of course we haven't seen as much progress as we want.

Here's the thing though. We have a VERY young team right now. We only have one senior left on the floor now. And then we have three juniors (two are first year JUCOs). If things had played out like they were supposed to, we'd have 4 seniors and 3 juniors. But now everyone else SHOULD be here for at least another two seasons after this one. The ceiling might not be as high for this current crop of players coming up than the initial group Tubby brought here, but if the revolving door of players finally stops, I wouldn't be surprised to see them achieve more success than Tubby has up to this point thus far. Pure speculation on my part, but that's how I see it.
 

Plinnius said:
Trent Lockett.
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As I mentioned in a different thread, Lockett and Sam Dower were and are legitimate Big Ten players that we'd all be glad to have, but they were in the same class as Williams and White, and are largely duplicative of those players. Further, I assume Tubby didn't just leave open scholarships at the expense of forgoing Lockett and Dower.
 

Powder said:
The problem isn't that he misses on a recruit or two, the problem is that he is ending up with the same caliber of player his predecessors were recruiting. He was brought in to raise the level of player and that hasn't happened. He recruits the same level of kid and is ending up with the same finish in the conference. And while injuries are not his fault, transfers are. These kids routinely say the main reason they play for a school is the coach. So if they're there because of the coach they are also leaving because of him. If a player leaves and he is replaced with a better player, fine. But to replace them with leftovers is not.
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I don't think I could say the transfers are his fault. Did Royce transfer because of Tubby? Don't think so. I don't think the others did either. No coach would recruit a player and not do everything he could to keep him here. No coach would try to sabatoge himself and the team like that. You need to wake up.
 

I call bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# on Doogie. Its now getting ridiculous. Tubby has certainly not achieved the top of where we all think the program is capable of.. however, there is no impartial person that wouldn't say the program is in better shape than under Monson. And truthfully, Tubby has made the NCAA's as often or more often than Clem (% of seasons). While no S16 or E8 runs yet, all other metrics are improved under Tubby.

His recruiting is so much better than Monson's its not even close. Its also better than Clem if you ask me. Now, injuries and roster turnover are a problem, which negates some of his recuriting success.

Bringing in guys like Sampson, Devoe Joseph, Royce, Rodney, Andre Hollins and Joe Coleman is a good sign he can pick the top 100 type player locally and nationally. Then he does very well in the fringe 100 players that develop into solid players down the road, Paul Carter, EE, Austin Hollins, etc. I don't think recruiting is a problem. Roster turnover has been a big problem.. so hopefully that improves.

As SS pointed out, the program has beaten teams we never beat under Monson. There is a big difference with Tubby. He still has a ways to go to maximize the hire, but progress has been made.

Oh wait. Monson brought in Aliou Kane and Kerry Wooldridge.. so I guess I stand corrected. Rickert is the only big time recruit Monson gets credit for..
 

Anybody who thinks the media has underplayed any possible criticism of Tubby Smith hasn't been reading Reusse or Souhan. Which is a commendable and wise decision, but should forestall a reasonable person from making generalizations regarding the amount of criticism directed at head coach.
 

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