Doogie: It's obvious now Gophers have long road to correct ineptitude

[Bob_Loblaw]

MV nailed it with me in-studio last night on 1500: if the players are supposed to take on the personality of their coach, how should we expect them to be after they saw Brewster scream at Maturi on a few different occasions? How should we expect them to be after they constantly left the locker room a mess? There are many other examples, maybe borderline irrelevant on an individual basis, but add them all up, and it points to the problems of the Brew regime.
The USC game fooled many, me included. I should've realized after the assistant coach told me what he did last Wednesday and that not a lot can be fixed in two-months of conditioning, 15 spring practices, and 50-something practices/two games this summer. They will not go winless, but any sort of miracle isn't happening this year.

I agree with your article in general, and I do agree with what you and MV have been saying. However, when looking at last week, in particular, there is no excuse from the players or coaches to lose that game. I think these points made by you, MV, and others on here are 100% valid for people who expected any sort of success in the Big 10. The Brew regime left us in a bad place, however, it didn't leave us in that bad of place where we can chalk up losing to a dreadful NMSU team (at home) merely to bad players.

Again, I like Coach Kill and I STILL think we got the right guy to turn this program around. However, I simply can't put all the blame on Brew for what happened on Saturday (especially considering we aren't a team with 25 FR playing). That was a bad team, a team that despite our program being hampered by Brew was a less talented football team than ourselves.

Brewster did a lot of things that caused us to lose on saturday however, Brew didn't botch the play calling in the red zone, Brew didn't prepare the team going into the week, Brew didn't choose to squib on the opening kickoff. Again, i'm not saying that I don't like Jerry Kill, I do (i've been a big supporter of his before we even announced him as our coach), but HIS team was not prepared to play on saturday and HIS playcalling wasn't very good (Limegrover even admitted to it). And that's alright...no one is expecting a perfect coach, but simply ignoring what happened to keep blaming Brew seems to be motivated by a warranted dislike for Brew and an equally warranted like for Kill, and not entirely on what happened on saturday.

 

[dpodoll68]

The kids that will be playing on Sundays are 2-3 yrs away from graduating!!!!!

Did Tinsley and McKnight get extra eligibility? I hadn't heard about that. That would be pretty sweet!

 

[Winnipegopher]

Perhaps NMSU is on a break-out year?

Walker was a good hire (for NMSU) and is now in year 3. Maybe they aren't as awful as advertised and this is the year they break out? It's possible- I didn't think they looked near as bad as South Dakota St. last year.

Of couse Ohio U beat them pretty badly...

 

[GoAUpher]

I stand by my statement. If getting drafted and playing professionally is the barometer of talent, then the Gopher hockey team should be winning national titles every year, but they're pretty much terrible as of late. Remember the Gopher basketball team with Kris Humphries? He put up huge numbers, but the team was awful.

Yeah, the Gophers probably have more pro prospects than NMSU, but if they can't gel as a team, it doesn't make any difference. As a team, they were awful this week.

Since when did talent mean you automatically win all the games you should or win more games period? You can have the most talent and still suck. Sheesh...

 

[GoAUpher]

How does that happen with complete ineptitude. Something isn't right. If they end up 0-12 or 1-11 I will have no hope whatsoever that any change is going to happen.

Many possibilities exist. Here's a couple off the top of my head:
1) They were playing in systems they understood and could execute better.
2) Horton finally got them feeling ok/loose and playing like they had nothing to lose (which of course was completely true).
3) Illinois and Iowa overlooked us. I don't buy this as a sole explanation (or as an excuse…ie how many ILL/IA fans try to play it) but as we've seen all too frequently over the past seasons if you let the inferior team hit you in the mouth a couple of times early it can be hard/impossible to shake them by the end.
In the end, a combination of those 3 seems to be a likely cause of winning 2 to end last season. The complete opposite is true this year. The team is learning new systems, they seem to be playing tight, and in the case of NMSU they seem to have overlooked the Aggies (consciously or not, but the team's play doesn't suggest they were expecting a fight).

This isn't a black and white answer where complete ineptitude is a full answer.

 

[DMB123]

We are NOT a vastly more talented team than NMSU. Their QB doesn't have a big day and their RB doesn't run past our LBs because our play-calling is bad. While I'll agree that we were out played for many reasons, we are not a very talented football team. I'm not sure we have a single player that would start at any of our rivals (possible exception of 1 WR). Bigger school does not mean better team.

Thank you for saying that, you are correct. There are some on here that think we are so much more talented than programs like NMSU and we're just not. I think people just assume we have to be more talented simply because we're a Big Ten program. The truth is Brewster compiled a team that is not any more talented than many teams around the country that aren't even in BCS conferences.

 

[DMB123]

Doogie, LALALand, and Mulligan are the ones who are clueless. And Coach Kill should stop making excuses about why he might not win many games this year. It is beneath him and makes him sound like Glenn Mason. For the last five years the Gophers have been handicapped by their recruiting classes in 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. They add up to the worst four years of recruiting in Gopher football history which makes them pretty close to the worst four years of recruiting in Big 10 football history. And they were all on Mason who spent his last three years as coach blaming everyone but himself for losing football games.

Wow. Not one problem with the football program today has ANYTHING to do with Glen Mason. He was fired in 2006, he can't be blamed for any of this. If he was still our coach we'd still be calling 4-4 seasons average and would be competing for the Legends Division title fairly often.

 

[GoAUpher]

The truth is Brewster compiled a team that is not any more talented than many teams around the country that aren't even in BCS conferences.

The first part of your response is all about scale. Are the Gopher VASTLY superior in talent to NMSU? Prob not. But are they more talented. Yes. Ultimately this is an opinion and you can feel free to disagree. But you're not going to find many people agreeing with you and it's not because they're all huge homers.

As for the quoted, that really has no bearing on things. While I'd agree that there are non-AQ's with more talent than MN, it doesn't mean anything when comparing the Gophers to NMSU. It's a superfluous point.

 

[DMB123]

Kill has been questioning the level of talent on his football team almost from the first day he arrived in Minnesota. He has been more subtle with his public comments than Mason but Kill never misses an opportunity to tell fans how it will take years to rebuild the team with players who can compete in the Big 10. I hear it in radio interviews constantly. The implication is that Tim Brewster was a terrible football coach and he left Kill very few players with the talent and ability to win football games. What Kill is saying could very well be true but it is bad form for any football coach to say it for two reasons: 1) it sounds like he is making excuses in advance for the performance of his team: and 2) it has to sound to some members of his own team that he doesn't believe in them or their ability to play Division I football.

I don't recall Brewster publicly questioning the talent and ability of the pathetic recruiting classes that Glenn Mason left him. Brewster irritated most Gopher fans and almost all of the local sports media with his over-the-top enthusiasm but he never talked about his team's lack of talent and how difficult it is to recruit in Minnesota.

How can anyone disagree with that?

 

[RodentRampage]

While I agree that Mason's recruiting isn't responsible for anything wrong with this team, Mason's average for Big Ten wins was only 3.2.

 

[DMB123]

While I agree that Mason's recruiting isn't responsible for anything wrong with this team, Mason's average for Big Ten wins was only 3.2.

Not if you disregard his first two seasons. I dont blame Barry Alvarez for going 1-10 in his first year at UW and I dont blame Mason for his poor records in years 1 and 2. From 1999 on, 4-4 or slightly below that is roughly what Mason averaged.

I would have loved to see what Mason's program would have done with the new stadium. Firing him has turned out to be a disaster.

 

[GoAUpher]

Sweet, I can see where this thread is headed.

 

[GO4INLALALAND]

I would have loved to see what Mason's program would have done with the new stadium. Firing him has turned out to be a disaster.

Patience Grasshopper. Good things come to those who wait. (And yes we must wait a little longer.)

 

[Neutral]

I like Coach Kill and I am happy he is our head coach but what happened on saturday is on this current staff.

We are a vastly more talented footbal team than NMSU. NMSU is about as good as South Dakota. There is no excuse for this team to lose a game against NMSU.

Our players weren't ready to play, our play calling was bad and it resulted in a loss (in my mind) that is every bit as bad as NDSU and South Dakota.

Our past regime didn't leave a team that will be a good Big 10 football team and I could never blame Coach Kill for that. However, this team is considerably more talented than NMSU. We weren't simply outgunned, we were out coached, out prepared and out played.

(Again, I like Coach Kill and the entire staff but his entire motto is based on accountability. What happened yesterday isn't on Brew it's on this current staff.)

Are these quotes from the staff? What's with all the "we's" and "ours"?

 

[MaxyJR1]

I would have loved to see what Mason's program would have done with the new stadium. Firing him has turned out to be a disaster.

I wonder where we would be if Kill had replaced Mason. I know that we were looking for something different, but looking back Kill may have been a great hire at the time.

 

[Monty519]

I think part of the problem, is people don't realize how little the difference between winning and losing is. One guy botches up coverage, bam, 6 points on the board. One or two lineman don't produce every single play, there he goes for a 15 yard gain.

Couple issues like that, then add in some coaching issues (no, they did not have a good day, and they even admitted as much), like the playcalling in the red zone, or the fact they weren't prepared for some of the sets NMSU threw out there, and suddenly you got a mess on your hands. A team that's already well established and has things situated might be able to overcome that against a team like NMSU.

But a team like the Gophers, who are coming off a 3 win season, have a brand new coaching staff, and in general, are just not stable, cannot afford to have that many mistakes and also that level of gameday coaching. I fully expect both the players and, more specifically, the coaches to bounce back next week with a much better performance.

 

[calminnfan]

no one should be convinced after saturday that kill is a lock to turn our program around

I know you are not necessarily saying this, but we should not be convinced he cannot...the jury is out at the time...there are a lot of reasons to be optimistic he can and will...no where near ready to write those reasons off.

 

[DMB123]

Patience Grasshopper. Good things come to those who. (And yes we must wait a little longer.)

I love Kill and think he can bring us to where Mason had us, and hopefully a little higher. I will be very patient with Kill because I know he will build the program the right way, and that takes time.

 

[calminnfan]

Here's what Harbison believes...

"I know that Minnesota it on the verge of big things and I am going to be part of that."

Gotta love this...

 

[Oneoldgopher]

I realize it's a blog, but this kind of reporting can sometimes be frustrating. You use some strong language ("clueless") that goes unsupported by any quotation. In fact, you never really quote Kill at any point.

I guess what I'm saying is that either the coach actually called his players "clueless" and you should quote him...or you should be more careful.

Or am I being over-sensitive?

I am hopeful that the coach said "clueless" about some of his players. Obviously, some have been playing that way as we have witnessed.

 

[Oneoldgopher]

I think part of the problem, is people don't realize how little the difference between winning and losing is. One guy botches up coverage, bam, 6 points on the board. One or two lineman don't produce every single play, there he goes for a 15 yard gain.

Couple issues like that, then add in some coaching issues (no, they did not have a good day, and they even admitted as much), like the playcalling in the red zone, or the fact they weren't prepared for some of the sets NMSU threw out there, and suddenly you got a mess on your hands. A team that's already well established and has things situated might be able to overcome that against a team like NMSU.

But a team like the Gophers, who are coming off a 3 win season, have a brand new coaching staff, and in general, are just not stable, cannot afford to have that many mistakes and also that level of gameday coaching. I fully expect both the players and, more specifically, the coaches to bounce back next week with a much better performance.

And you think the coaches can bounce back next week! How will they do so when they have not established a track record at Minnesota for doing so other than 1/2 of the first game? Really, I admire a person with faith. But, I admire more a person of reason. Give it to me man, for your sake.

 

[jovs]

Not if you disregard his first two seasons. I dont blame Barry Alvarez for going 1-10 in his first year at UW and I dont blame Mason for his poor records in years 1 and 2. From 1999 on, 4-4 or slightly below that is roughly what Mason averaged.

I would have loved to see what Mason's program would have done with the new stadium. Firing him has turned out to be a disaster.

I kind of had the concern a few years ago, the argument that it takes years to get any results I just can't accept, Michigan is 2-0 and could very likely be 4-0 when Minnesota visits Ann Arbor, I sure hope we aren't 0-4 at that point. It would be quite the contrast.

 

[RodentRampage]

I kind of had the concern a few years ago, the argument that it takes years to get any results I just can't accept, Michigan is 2-0 and could very likely be 4-0 when Minnesota visits Ann Arbor, I sure hope we aren't 0-4 at that point. It would be quite the contrast.

Michigan won seven games last year, the Gophers won three. We have farther to go then they do.

 

[NoDakGopher]

no one should be convinced after saturday that kill is a lock to turn our program around

Really? I'm sorry but you literally have no brain at all if you think you're going to get instant results with the athletes that we have, especially when they're still learning a completely new system. I didn't expect any more than 3 wins this year and if you did you seriously have to rethink what this team is going through this year.

 

[The Goof Off Goph]

Perhaps this is a bit obvious but I think most people that predicted a record for this season were thinking maybe 3-4 wins. Of those 3-4 victories, most likely nobody assumes we would beat USC. That leaves this team one win behind or at roughly 2-3 wins. Yes, NMSU is a terrible program and I hated witnessing that debacle. As painful as it was the one thing that you have to come to grips with about college football is the completely unpredictable nature of it. Bottom line...fixing this program is gonna be a painful experience. I'm not a huge fan of block foundations vs. sand rhetoric etc...although, I think Coach Kill's record of rebuilding programs speaks for itself and I count myself as a supporter, there will be warts. And sometimes warts are really embarassing.

 

[BisonGopher]

Urgh - I'll try again. Hopefully you'll pay attention this time.

The original poster tried to make the argument that NMSU is more talented than Minnesota. That is, 100%, categorically, undeniably, flat-out false. That is all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

Note that I said nary a single word about how talent translates into victories, nor how good of a team Minnesota has. Both of those are irrelevant to the singular point mentioned above. As blahblahblah has already stated so eloquently, it is not so simple as to say "more talented team always wins". However, the talent gap between NMSU and Minnesota is so vast that Minnesota should never, ever lose.

Now, do you understand?

So which of these is then true:

A) each Gopher player is so highly talented at football that it's just not possible for a cohesive synergy of talent to exist on the field
B) each Gopher player is highly talented, but just doesn't try very hard to play well or possibly even tries to not play well during the game


Those are the only scenarios I can think of to explain how it's physically possible for a team that so obviously has so much more talent to lose to a team with such obviously inferior talent.

 

[GoAUpher]

So which of these is then true:

A) each Gopher player is so highly talented at football that it's just not possible for a cohesive synergy of talent to exist on the field
B) each Gopher player is highly talented, but just doesn't try very hard to play well or possibly even tries to not play well during the game


Those are the only scenarios I can think of to explain how it's physically possible for a team that so obviously has so much more talent to lose to a team with such obviously inferior talent.

What are you babbling about? You are trying to assert that people are saying the Gophers have "obviously much more talent" when that's not what is being said. OP said NMSU was more talented. People disagreed using some pretty logical data points and assertions. No level of higher talent was being discussed, just a refutation that NMSU has more talent.

What about that isn't clear?

 

[JackiO]

Are these quotes from the staff? What's with all the "we's" and "ours"?

Wow, you are a D bag.

 

[BisonGopher]

What are you babbling about? You are trying to assert that people are saying the Gophers have "obviously much more talent" when that's not what is being said. OP said NMSU was more talented. People disagreed using some pretty logical data points and assertions. No level of higher talent was being discussed, just a refutation that NMSU has more talent.

What about that isn't clear?

Here are the relevant quotes:

(in response to a poster's comment "We are NOT a vastly more talented team than NMSU.")

Yes, we are. I can name several players on the Minnesota squad who will almost certainly be playing on Sundays. How many of the NMSU players do you think will even be invited to an NFL training camp, much less earn an NFL paycheck?

However, the talent gap between NMSU and Minnesota is so vast that Minnesota should never, ever lose.

 

[RodentRampage]

So which of these is then true:

A) each Gopher player is so highly talented at football that it's just not possible for a cohesive synergy of talent to exist on the field
B) each Gopher player is highly talented, but just doesn't try very hard to play well or possibly even tries to not play well during the game


Those are the only scenarios I can think of to explain how it's physically possible for a team that so obviously has so much more talent to lose to a team with such obviously inferior talent.

Think harder, there are other scenarios. You might have noticed that there is an entirely new coaching staff in place. Quite during such transitions, there is a period of adjustment in which the team does more poorly. Mason's Gophers won less games in his first year than Wacker did in his final season. Mason lost to a 3-7 Hawaii team, a loss that was as shocking as the loss to NMSU.