Does SOUHAN deserve an apology?

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cjbfbp said:
Yes, that was an objective post. In the short term, Souhan was wrong. In the long term, he was right, but because of the tone of his article no apology should be forthcoming.
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His point wasn't "In the long term, Kill's health is a risk." Everyone knew Kill's health was no guarantee. His claim was that the football team was without leadership and had become a joke. He was wrong, the team had plenty of leadership 8 wins in 2013 and 2014 proved he was wrong.

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cjbfbp said:
Yes, that was an objective post. In the short term, Souhan was wrong. In the long term, he was right, but because of the tone of his article no apology should be forthcoming.
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Souhan's long term was Jerry Kill should never have been hired in the first place.
 

Souhan never should have been hired in the first place...

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bleedsmaroonandgold said:
What Souhan never seemed to get was that people (at least most people) were not upset about the suggestion that it might be in Kill or the University's interest for Kill to retire at that time. People were upset about a cheap joke where the punchline was how unpleasant it was to have to look at someone suffering from a medical condition experience a seizure.
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Exactly this. I still don't think he gets it. I remember listening to him on Dubay's show shortly after the article and he acted like everyone was so upset that he brought up his condition.

I also thought it was funny that Souhan would only talk to people who he knew would agree with his take. He had no problem giving quotes to his buddy in Indianapolis (I think) who wrote an article defending him. But when ESPN's OTL asked him to be on the show, he declined. He knew people would challenge his article on the show so he didn't go on. He knew he was fine with Dubay because he knew he would agree with everything he said. And then they only let callers on that would agree with him as well.
 


I thought Jerry's career was finished at Michigan a few years ago.

I really did.

I thought then that Souhan was partly right and entirely tactless.
 

RodentRampage said:
His point wasn't "In the long term, Kill's health is a risk." Everyone knew Kill's health was no guarantee. His claim was that the football team was without leadership and had become a joke. He was wrong, the team had plenty of leadership 8 wins in 2013 and 2014 proved he was wrong.

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I really don't care what his point was. I already said the tone of his article was inappropriate (at the very least). None of that diminishes the fact that his conclusion was right in the long term. Being an a$$hole doesn't prevent someone from being correct in the end. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
 

cjbfbp said:
I really don't care what his point was. I already said the tone of his article was inappropriate (at the very least). None of that diminishes the fact that his conclusion was right in the long term. Being an a$$hole doesn't prevent someone from being correct in the end. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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No.
Jerry's rebuttal to that horrific article of hate was right. Jerry walked away when it became too much, it was not too much at the time.
Jim deserved to be fired, if he had wrote that article about race, religion, or sexual preference instead of disease he'd have been fired.
The fact that Souhan's life wasn't made a living hell over that article is a shame.
 





My email to him yesterday:

Mr. Souhan,
Know that you will never be the man that Coach Kill is. It is a good thing you get the opportunity to hide behind the pen. Not being held accountable in the name of journalism is a gift.

Although you received what you wanted in the end, you did not win. You are one of the reasons your employer produces a poor product. You're a perfect representative of a dying industry. I can't imagine existing as you do.

As you sensationalize your most recent opportunity, I truly wish you the best. You are a perfect example of the man I teach my sons not be.
 

cjbfbp said:
I really don't care what his point was. I already said the tone of his article was inappropriate (at the very least). None of that diminishes the fact that his conclusion was right in the long term. Being an a$$hole doesn't prevent someone from being correct in the end. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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You ought to care what his point was if you want to make claims about it. He didn't make any long-term claim. His claim was that Kill was a joke and a disaster for the football team. He was wrong.

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RodentRampage said:
You ought to care what his point was if you want to make claims about it. He didn't make any long-term claim. His claim was that Kill was a joke and a disaster for the football team. He was wrong.

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The only thing that I didn't like from the article was the comparison of total wins to total on-field seizures.

However, I think a reasonable case could have been made to come to the conclusion that he was "unable to fulfill his duties" two years ago just like a reasonable case could have been made to come to the conclusion that he was able to fulfill his duties at that time.

Whether you like Souhan's tone or not, it should be noted that Jerry came to the same conclusion yesterday that Souhan arrived at two years ago.
 

golfing18now said:
Whether you like Souhan's tone or not, it should be noted that Jerry came to the same conclusion yesterday that Souhan arrived at two years ago.
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Souhan claimed that Kill couldn't fulfill his duties in 2013. He was wrong. Kill concluded that he couldn't fulfill his duties in 2015, and I have to take his word that he's right.

If two people are on a boat and halfway across, one says "We're here!" and gets off while the other waits until reaching the dock to get off, it wouldn't make sense for the first to say "Well I reached the same conclusion you did, just earlier."


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cjbfbp said:
I really don't care what his point was. I already said the tone of his article was inappropriate (at the very least). None of that diminishes the fact that his conclusion was right in the long term. Being an a$$hole doesn't prevent someone from being correct in the end. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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I'd even argue that point. At the time the program was in shambles and people weren't lining up to take over. Kill admitted right away he wasn't the first, second, third, etc. choice. Look at where the program is now because of what Kill has done--renewed interest, better talent and new facilities about to be built. Hoke and Golden, two names at the time to replace Brewster, have gone down in flames and I think there is another I can't think of. It's a crap shoot. No guarantees. I'll take the tangibles Kill produced up to this point even with yesterday over saying, "Gee, we should have hired someone else." Especially considering where we were at the time.
 

Being objective and tactful doesn't get you clicks. Being radical and tactless gets you clicks. That's why everyone should just stop clicking.
 

Mulligan said:
I'd even argue that point. At the time the program was in shambles and people weren't lining up to take over. Kill admitted right away he wasn't the first, second, third, etc. choice. Look at where the program is now because of what Kill has done--renewed interest, better talent and new facilities about to be built. Hoke and Golden, two names at the time to replace Brewster, have gone down in flames and I think there is another I can't think of. It's a crap shoot. No guarantees. I'll take the tangibles Kill produced up to this point even with yesterday over saying, "Gee, we should have hired someone else." Especially considering where we were at the time.
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Edsall and Trestman (NFL fail though, not NCAA).
 

RodentRampage said:
Souhan claimed that Kill couldn't fulfill his duties in 2013. He was wrong. Kill concluded that he couldn't fulfill his duties in 2015, and I have to take his word that he's right.

If two people are on a boat and halfway across, one says "We're here!" and gets off while the other waits until reaching the dock to get off, it wouldn't make sense for the first to say "Well I reached the same conclusion you did, just earlier."


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You probably thought that was a good analogy but you were wrong.
 

cjbfbp said:
You probably thought that was a good analogy but you were wrong.
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Firing Kill in 2013 would have been like getting out of a boat before reaching shore.

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Mulligan said:
I'll take the tangibles Kill produced up to this point even with yesterday over saying, "Gee, we should have hired someone else." Especially considering where we were at the time.
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I'm not sure who you are arguing with because I never made the point that Kill shouldn't have been hired. All I said was that eventual circumstances validated the conclusion that Kill wasn't going to be the man to lead the football program. I really don't care whether the author expected him to step down two years ago. That's his view not mine. I wouldn't know Souhan if he bit me. I don't read these sports reporters or listen to talk radio blowhards, so these people don't upset me like they do some of you.

I wouldn't say Al Golden went down in flames. He averaged 7 wins in his four full years at Miami. Kill averaged 6.25 in his four full years here and almost half of the voters on this site rate that as an "A" performance.
 

cjbfbp said:
I'm not sure who you are arguing with because I never made the point that Kill shouldn't have been hired. All I said was that eventual circumstances validated the conclusion that Kill wasn't going to be the man to lead the football program. I really don't care whether the author expected him to step down two years ago. That's his view not mine. I wouldn't know Souhan if he bit me. I don't read these sports reporters or listen to talk radio blowhards, so these people don't upset me like they do some of you.

I wouldn't say Al Golden went down in flames. He averaged 7 wins in his four full years at Miami. Kill averaged 6.25 in his four full years here and almost half of the voters on this site rate that as an "A" performance.
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Averaging 7 wins in those four years is tied for the worst 4-year average at Miami since the 1970's. The four years before Kill arrived, the Gophers averaged 3.75 wins.

Considering the huge advantages Miami has, I think it's fair to say Golden was a big failure.
 

Nope no apology is necessary. Souhan wrote what he thought, a lot of us disagree and disagreed with his opinion. That is all. IF he want's self pats on the back he can do that.
 

It's not so much What he thought rather than the utterly tasteless and vulgar way he went about it!

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Update - Souhan and Michael Rand have a video piece on the Strib website. Open talking about death of Flip and Torii retiring, then get into Kill. Souhan said he apologized to Kill and Rebecca after the original column. Said he and Kill had some differences, but about a year later, Kill hugged him and said he wanted to put it behind them. Souhan also says, in retrospect, he regrets the tone of the original column. said he should not have talked about another person's health in that manner. he also said Kill was a leader in the athletic department, with fundraising for the athetic facilities, and that extra workload may have contributed to his new health problems. (something else we can blame mega-tongue for....my thoughts, not Souhan)

so - Souhan does express some regret for what he wrote. again - the video piece is on the Strib website. if I knew how to, I'd link to it - but I don't know bleep about these new-fangled gadgets.......
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Update - Souhan and Michael Rand have a video piece on the Strib website. Open talking about death of Flip and Torii retiring, then get into Kill. Souhan said he apologized to Kill and Rebecca after the original column. Said he and Kill had some differences, but about a year later, Kill hugged him and said he wanted to put it behind them. Souhan also says, in retrospect, he regrets the tone of the original column. said he should not have talked about another person's health in that manner. he also said Kill was a leader in the athletic department, with fundraising for the athetic facilities, and that extra workload may have contributed to his new health problems. (something else we can blame mega-tongue for....my thoughts, not Souhan)

so - Souhan does express some regret for what he wrote. again - the video piece is on the Strib website. if I knew how to, I'd link to it - but I don't know bleep about these new-fangled gadgets.......
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Great catch. Here is that video link http://video.startribune.com/what-a-week-souhan-and-rand-on-flip-torii-and-kill/338400641/
 

Go back and read his articles again and see if you still want to ask if he deserves an apology troll.
 


No he does not deserve one. He wrote an article based on someone's medical condition without being informed about it. I actually like most of Souhan's writing. I like how unlike places like Tuscaloosa or Baton Rouge we have media who aren't afraid to be critical of the college program.

But I never would have fired Mason so what do I know.
 


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