Does PJ Fleck run his running backs into the ground?

Does he?

  • Yes

    Votes: 107 79.3%

  • No

    Votes: 26 19.3%

  • Its balanced

    Votes: 2 1.5%
  • Total voters
    135
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To the haters/doubters, Nubin was #8 in the BG10 in PFF score with Taylor at #4. I don't know what's behind the PFF black box, but the black box likes Nubin. In my opinion, he's an effective running back in the Gopher's zone blocking scheme and probably the best RB blocker. He carved out a deserving space on the roster.

On a side note, the wildcat with Taylor and Nubin in the backfield was the best I've seen since 2019.
 

Panthadad2 said:
To the haters/doubters, Nubin was #8 in the BG10 in PFF score with Taylor at #4. I don't know what's behind the PFF black box, but the black box likes Nubin. In my opinion, he's an effective running back in the Gopher's zone blocking scheme and probably the best RB blocker. He carved out a deserving space on the roster.

On a side note, the wildcat with Taylor and Nubin in the backfield was the best I've seen since 2019.
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The biggest doubters are the coaching staff who had him low enough to have the touch split DT-37 Nubin-3 yesterday instead of like 28-12
 

Some guy said:
The biggest doubters are the coaching staff who had him low enough to have the touch split DT-37 Nubin-3 yesterday instead of like 28-12
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Nubin played 16 snaps which is over 25% of non-punts. Sounds about right to me.
 

Dakota2 said:
Any idea why coaches alternate defensive linemen once in a while? Like running backs, they need bursts of energy on every play. Simple fact is, even though player A is slightly better the player B, it is still more effective to use the fresh player B once in a while and letter player A catch his breath and legs.
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No argument but the coach has to show he trusts two or more guys for that to thrive. PJ does not do that....he rides one. All I'm saying is I don't believe it'll kill the #1 guy to carry the ball 30 times.
Would I do it that way? No.

But, ya I'd prefer he develop other backs, keep them involved etc. He rides a RB until he can't go. He picks a QB in the summer and nobody else will get any snaps unless the QB needs medical attention. Not a fan of either.

RB's get hurt in the first quarter as often as the 4th is my argument...not that riding a guy 30X is the best way to do it. Better ways to do it but the guy can survive. If you carry the ball 20X versus 30X, I'm pretty sure you are less likely to get hurt but just because you carry it 30X doesn't mean you will get hurt.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Nubin played 16 snaps which is over 25% of non-punts. Sounds about right to me.
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he had 3 touches. The entire conversation is about balancing the RB workload
You’re right though, he was on the field for a bunch of plays
 


Some guy said:
he had 3 touches. The entire conversation is about balancing the RB workload
You’re right though, he was on the field for a bunch of plays
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The point is, this whole thing is a flawed argument. Blocking a linebacker or edge defender (effectively) isn't much physically different from a carry or reception. For example, the gold standard for these Gopherholers hyperventilating is how Bucky Irving shared carries at Oregon, yet he played 44 snaps per game against FBS teams this year compared to Taylor's 46.6 per game excluding Nebby (37.5 including Nebby). I doubt Irving was standing around holding his dick on plays that he didn't touch the ball.

This is an epic dumbass thread.
 


Panthadad2 said:
The point is, this whole thing is a flawed argument. Blocking a linebacker or edge defender (effectively) isn't much physically different from a carry or reception. For example, the gold standard for these Gopherholers hyperventilating is how Bucky Irving shared carries at Oregon, yet he played 44 snaps per game against FBS teams this year compared to Taylor's 46.6 per game excluding Nebby (37.5 including Nebby). I doubt Irving was standing around holding his dick on plays that he didn't touch the ball.

This is an epic dumbass thread.
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I agree it is overblown. But I also think the team needs a viable number 2 better than Nubin to be as good as I want the team to be
 

If you look back at 2017-2019, I think most would say the RB splits were reasonable. 2020 we had Mo at the top of his game, and there was a big dropoff after that. 2021 was pretty balanced although we don't really know what would have happened had Mo been available.

I think a lot of this decision making is determined by who's on the roster. DT will likely get the ball a lot next year because there's a massive talent dropoff after him. In 2019 Rodney was the bell cow but Mo and Brooks had their share, with a little Seth Green mixed in for good measure.

Personally, I'm not going to get too upset over a coach utilizing his best players, even if I think there could be a better mix of workload.
 



Some guy said:
The biggest doubters are the coaching staff who had him low enough to have the touch split DT-37 Nubin-3 yesterday instead of like 28-12
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I don’t know if the coaching staff doubts him, they just like to run their number 1 all game. However, by not playing talented backups, they can inadvertently make the player less enthusiastic
 

Panthadad2 said:
To the haters/doubters, Nubin was #8 in the BG10 in PFF score with Taylor at #4. I don't know what's behind the PFF black box, but the black box likes Nubin.
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I'm going to guess the Michigan State game skewed any possible statistics, for better or for worse.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Nubin played 16 snaps which is over 25% of non-punts. Sounds about right to me.
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How are you able to see this??

Is this easily available? Now go divide DT's attempts by total snaps, not by total games.
 

Panthadad2 said:
The point is, this whole thing is a flawed argument. Blocking a linebacker or edge defender (effectively) isn't much physically different from a carry or reception.
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I can understand why you say that, because in your mind smashing/getting smashed on a blocking assignment is a physical blow, hurts, etc.

But the whole reason for arguing about "wear and tear" on a RB is to talk about the risk of major injury.

I would love to see an actual statistical analysis if one exists (probably not), but my wild guess is that RB's get injured far less often doing blocking assignments than when running with the ball.
 



Fully acknowledging how special 2019 was, there is still a very valid argument that the 2004-ish (plus minus a season or two) were the peak of talent and ability of the Gophers in college football.

Would 2019 have been able to beat Alabama in a bowl game?


And at that time, Mason would evangelize to anyone who would listen: "you need a pair, and a spare".
 

Don't know how many Wild fans are on here but I'm assuming you all think (rookie, former Gopher) Brock Faber is being "run into the ground" right now? Averaging 30 minutes of ice time a game the last few.
 

Word said:
Don't know how many Wild fans are on here but I'm assuming you all think (rookie, former Gopher) Brock Faber is being "run into the ground" right now? Averaging 30 minutes of ice time a game the last few.
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I don't know enough about the average time on the ice of defenseman in the NFL, but if it is way more than everyone else, yes, I do. From a quick glance at the box scores, it does not look like that's the case though. He had 4 games over 30 in a week span where he was probably overplayed. But all 4 went to OT. Since then, he dropped back down to 27 minutes and 25 minutes.

For example, I think Pitino ran Marcus Carr into the ground. There was absolutely no reason for him to play that much every single game. It's not as big of a deal in basketball because you cannot really compare minutes in a basketball game with a carry in football.

If the term "running into the ground" is where some people are hung up, just think of it is a two part question. (1) Is PJ an outlier with how he uses his running backs? This answer is statistically a fact. (2) Is this a good? Bad? No preference?

The answer to #2 is really where the entire debate lives.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't know enough about the average time on the ice of defenseman in the NFL, but if it is way more than everyone else, yes, I do. From a quick glance at the box scores, it does not look like that's the case though. He had 4 games over 30 in a week span where he was probably overplayed. But all 4 went to OT. Since then, he dropped back down to 27 minutes and 25 minutes.

For example, I think Pitino ran Marcus Carr into the ground. There was absolutely no reason for him to play that much every single game. It's not as big of a deal in basketball because you cannot really compare minutes in a basketball game with a carry in football.

If the term "running into the ground" is where some people are hung up, just think of it is a two part question. (1) Is PJ an outlier with how he uses his running backs? This answer is statistically a fact. (2) Is this a good? Bad? No preference?

The answer to #2 is really where the entire debate lives.
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It will be interesting to see how Faber fares the rest of the season.
 


Some guy said:
Agree to disagree
He doesn’t have second level speed and he doesn’t make guys miss or break tackles

He is a running back on a team that was 1-4 in the 5 games you mentioned
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Let's say you had to pick one of the following for the biggest reason for 1-4 the last five games:

1) Nubin is slow and doesn't make guys miss tackles;

2) A porous defense;

3) AK's performance;

4) Receivers who drop balls;

5) Harbaugh;

6) Fleck

How do you see it?
 

MNVCGUY said:
I like Nubin as a #3 option. Hopefully Taylor and Bangura can carry the bulk of the load and Nubin can do some spot work or maybe play on 3rd down as he seemed to do a decent job at blitz pickup.
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I also like Nubin as a No. 3 option if someone is better. Or a No. 4 option if two guys are better. And I'd really like Taylor as a No. 2 option if we got someone even better than him.

My point throughout the discussion is that if Bangura or a freshman is better than Nubin it means the guy is really good because Nubin is a fine Big Ten back, either in No. 2 role or stepping in because of injury to DT.
 

I'm not much for predictions, but here are some:

1) The Gophers will run the ball, first and foremost.

2) If he stays healthy, Darius Taylor will carry the ball a freakin' lot. I mean, A... LOT.

3) If Darius Taylor stays healthy, people will complain that he gets "too many carries"... even if he leads the B1G in rushing.

4) If Darius Taylor sustains an injury, people will complain that Fleck "runs his running backs into the ground" — even though running backs in football get injured quite frequently.
 

Scott R Fisher said:
The young man doesn't seem to mind the workload ... says, "I love it here!" So maybe, just maybe he likes being the featured back/workhorse. In any case, I'm hoping for a more balanced offense this year so we can keep everyone healthy, happy and productive.
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Any young, world class athlete wants the load and to be featured. That emotion has nothing to do with coaching. You use your best strategically in order that they be strong at any point in the game and in particular, the end if it's close.

It's very obvious that the top teams use at least two backs as a way to keep the best one ready when needed most.
 

RememberMurray said:
I'm not much for predictions, but here are some:

1) The Gophers will run the ball, first and foremost.

2) If he stays healthy, Darius Taylor will carry the ball a freakin' lot. I mean, A... LOT.

3) If Darius Taylor stays healthy, people will complain that he gets "too many carries"... even if he leads the B1G in rushing.

4) If Darius Taylor sustains an injury, people will complain that Fleck "runs his running backs into the ground" — even though running backs in football get injured quite frequently.
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That's not a great contribution, Murr. I've seen you do better (occasionally).
 

Dakota2 said:
Let's say you had to pick one of the following for the biggest reason for 1-4 the last five games:

1) Nubin is slow and doesn't make guys miss tackles;

2) A porous defense;

3) AK's performance;

4) Receivers who drop balls;

5) Harbaugh;

6) Fleck

How do you see it?
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Yes
 

Dakota2 said:
That's not a great contribution, Murr. I've seen you do better (occasionally).
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I disagree. I think it's far better than some I've seen.

My point: people here seem to want Fleck to be someone else other than Fleck. It ain't gonna happen.
 

Some guy said:
The biggest doubters are the coaching staff who had him low enough to have the touch split DT-37 Nubin-3 yesterday instead of like 28-12
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You are confused by the difference in Taylor's homecoming, big announcement he'll be back, recovering after a couple of months of injury, in the sport's lowest bowl game .... with .... a plan for a full 2024 season?
 

Dakota2 said:
You are confused by the difference in Taylor's homecoming, big announcement he'll be back, recovering after a couple of months of injury, in the sport's lowest bowl game .... with .... a plan for a full 2024 season?
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No . I am not

You are confused on the difference between a 2024 hypothetical and a 2023 reality?
 


Dakota2 said:
You are confused by the difference in Taylor's homecoming, big announcement he'll be back, recovering after a couple of months of injury, in the sport's lowest bowl game .... with .... a plan for a full 2024 season?
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Over the course of Fleck's time here, he has had one back I would consider a "bell cow" (Ibrahim).

Most seasons, it seemed to me as though several backs got carries. Rodney, Shannon, Bryce, Trey, Bucky, etc. Even when Mo was "the man" it seemed like others also got to lug the rock. That's my impression, anyway.
 

Some guy said:
No . I am not

You are confused on the difference between a 2024 hypothetical and a 2023 reality?
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There is no connection between a minor bowl game where you want to give the kid his time in front of family and friends, and an entire Big Ten football season.

If you think the two are comparable and that coaches will treat each the same, you are indeed a confused fellow.
 

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