Does PJ Fleck run his running backs into the ground?

[Bob_Loblaw]

Given circumstances of yesterday's game (workload for the season, no game next week, in his hometown & QB situation) had really had no issue Taylor getting 30+ carries against Bowling Green.

I am sure he wanted to get as much on tape for his next stop, whenever and wherever that is. Hopefully it's for the 2026 NFL Draft.

Two thoughts though:

- My opinion, RBs only have so much tread on the tires, whether it's used up in HS, College or Pro.

- Sure would have been nice if Taylor had been able to play in the late stages of the the Northwestern game as well as Illinois, when all they needed was a 1st down or 2 to salt away victories. I think at minimum they would have been 7-5 if he had remained healthy, perhaps could have been a difference maker against Wisconsin, too.

I have no idea if it was the number of carries that caused his injury in the first place, just lamenting what could have been.

The bold has been proven. You cannot point to a single carry and say "he shouldn't have gotten that carry" but the cumulative impact of a ton of carries has proven to have a pretty large impact on RBs.

It's why the NFL really evaluates usage of RBs they draft. Look at how the WI RBs seem to have all completely lost juice by the time they turn 26.

 

[upchurch]

I am not defending Fleck's tendency to stick with one back but when John McKay was asked about O.J. Simpson's number of carries, he said "He doesn't belong to a union"

"Coach McKay, what did you think of your team's ezxecution?"
"I'm all for it," he replied.

 

[Some guy]

If it's a close game, absolutely I believe PJ would run Taylor 30+ times.

Let's look at how he used Mo, and I'll only put it against good teams.
2022:
Penn State - 30 carries
Nebraska - 32 carries
Iowa - 39 carries

2021:
Ohio State - 31 carries (injured to start 4th quarter). He would have been over 40 carries in this game if he stayed healthy.

2020:
Iowa - 33 carries


If you look back at how Mo was used in 2020-2022, the only thing that stopped him from getting 30+ carries was the game circumstances and/or injuries. If it was a close game or we were winning by a lot, regardless of opponent, Mo was going to get 30+ carries.

So far, it looks like PJ plans on using Taylor the same way.

At the same time,
2018, 2019, and 2021 post Mo injury he showed he would play multiple backs when they have similar ability levels.

If people don’t want DT getting too many carries I think what it would take is another great RB. Because I agree he isn’t going to split carries with Nubin or a guy who fumbles all the time.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

At the same time,
2018, 2019, and 2021 post Mo injury he showed he would play multiple backs when they have similar ability levels.

If people don’t want DT getting too many carries I think what it would take is another great RB. Because I agree he isn’t going to split carries with Nubin or a guy who fumbles all the time.

Oh, he will. It'll be just like 2021 where he ran Mo into the ground, ran Trey Potts into the ground and then split carries between Bucky and Thomas.

Our backup RB is going to have a ton of carries next season, it'll either be due to PJ mixing it up, or running a guy into the ground and the backup being next man up.

 

[Some guy]

Oh, he will. It'll be just like 2021 where he ran Mo into the ground, ran Trey Potts into the ground and then split carries between Bucky and Thomas.

Our backup RB is going to have a ton of carries next season, it'll either be due to PJ mixing it up, or running a guy into the ground and the backup being next man up.

Don’t really agree with that. 2022 they ran a guy into the ground but he ended up playing 12 games anyways.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Don’t really agree with that. 2022 they ran a guy into the ground but he ended up playing 12 games anyways.

He had the second-most carries per game of anyone in the NCAA and he was coming off a season-ending injury. That's kind of the definition of running someone into the ground.

IMO, you can't let the results dictate whether or not it was proper process. It's a not a good idea to hit an 18 in Blackjack, regardless of whether or not you get a 3. That process will lead you to failure.

 

[Some guy]

He had the second-most carries per game of anyone in the NCAA and he was coming off a season-ending injury. That's kind of the definition of running someone into the ground.

IMO, you can't let the results dictate whether or not it was proper process. It's a not a good idea to hit an 18 in Blackjack, regardless of whether or not you get a 3. That process will lead you to failure.

I didn’t say it was a proper thing to do, I said it isn’t a guaranteed injury like you claimed

 

[Dakota2]

And show me the quotes from a RB who says the coach made me carry the ball too many times today.
Many RB's say they get better with more carries...they pick up defensive tendencies and exploit them. They get in a rhythm. Generally you hear they prefer being a workhorse. They relish the responsibility and the opportunity to lead the team.

And it is 2023...he's getting paid to carry the ball. In order to get paid more money he needs to gain more yards.

Let's alternate QB's so they don't get hurt....it's mis-placed concern how many carries a RB gets.
The concern is....how effective is he?

Any idea why coaches alternate defensive linemen once in a while? Like running backs, they need bursts of energy on every play. Simple fact is, even though player A is slightly better the player B, it is still more effective to use the fresh player B once in a while and letter player A catch his breath and legs.

 

[Dakota2]

You may be right, you may be wrong, but there's no proof that you are right.

Common sense.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I didn’t say it was a proper thing to do, I said it isn’t a guaranteed injury like you claimed

You said it wasn't running them into the ground.

Did you really think I thought it was a guarantee? C'mon.

 

[Dakota2]

I don’t think Nubin has much yards after contact ability.
I think he’s a fine third back
Seems to see it well at least

Nubin is an excellent second back to Taylor. If a transfer can play ahead of Nubin he will be very good indeed.

 

[Some guy]

Nubin is an excellent second back to Taylor. If a transfer can play ahead of Nubin he will be very good indeed.

I hope it’s the case because I think we saw yesterday what the split will be if the backup is Nubin

 

[Some guy]

You said it wasn't running them into the ground.

Did you really think I thought it was a guarantee? C'mon.

Not really understanding what we are arguing here.

You said carries will be split either way next year either voluntarily or due to injury. And I disagree with that take.

 

[Dakota2]

I didn’t say it was a proper thing to do, I said it isn’t a guaranteed injury like you claimed

Nobody is claiming anything is guaranteed. Successful people are guided by common sense and logic.

 

[Dakota2]

I hope it’s the case because I think we saw yesterday what the split will be if the backup is Nubin

Yesterday had nothing to do with Nubin. Taylor had recovered from injury, stayed with the Gophers, and was coming home to Detroit. Of course he was going to get the carries in those special circumstances.

Common sense says for a full 2024 season at least three good backs will be required and utilized. To keep Taylor strong all year, the backups will need ten or so carries most games.

If Nubin is not No. 2 and getting a lot of carries it will be because a transfer or freshman is really good.

 

[Some guy]

Yesterday had nothing to do with Nubin. Taylor had recovered from injury, stayed with the Gophers, and coming home to Detroit. Of course he was going to get the carries in those special circumstances.

Common sense says for a full 2024 season at least three good backs will be required and utilized. To keep Taylor strong all year, the backups will need ten or so carries most games.

If Nubin is not No. 2 and getting a lot of carries it will be because a transfer or freshman is really good.

I don’t think Nubin is good enough to get those carries. Hopefully we have someone else

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Not really understanding what we are arguing here.

You said carries will be split either way next year either voluntarily or due to injury. And I disagree with that take.

Here, does this help?

Most likely carries will be split next year either voluntarily or due to injury. If PJ chooses to not split carries, the likelihood of Taylor playing every game is significantly lower thus resulting in that back up getting a lot of carries anyways.

 

[MaxyJR1]

He does and that’s why when he gets anyone with talent they need to see the field. Bucky Irving/Thomas, Shannon/Smith. Mo needed a better #2 and Taylor needs a good #2.

 

[Some guy]

Here, does this help?

Most likely carries will be split next year either voluntarily or due to injury. If PJ chooses to not split carries, the likelihood of Taylor playing every game is significantly lower thus resulting in that back up getting a lot of carries anyways.

Not sure I agree with that either but I disagree with it less

 

[Dakota2]

I don’t think Nubin is good enough to get those carries. Hopefully we have someone else

Nubin stepped in Game 8 and carried the load the rest of the season. He had 204 yards vs Michigan State, 75 vs Illinois, 89 vs Purdue, 49 at OSU, and 93 at Wisconsin.

Nubin is a good Big Ten back.

 

[Gophers1992]

Nubin stepped in Game 8 and carried the load the rest of the season. He had 204 yards vs Michigan State, 75 vs Illinois, 89 vs Purdue, 49 at OSU, and 93 at Wisconsin.

Nubin is a good Big Ten back.

He's a good big ten #2. If we get a healthy Taylor and Nubin for all of 2024 I would like that backfield. At 4.4 YPC if we can upgrade from Nubin I'm all for that as well.

 

[Some guy]

Nubin stepped in Game 8 and carried the load the rest of the season. He had 204 yards vs Michigan State, 75 vs Illinois, 89 vs Purdue, 49 at OSU, and 93 at Wisconsin.

Nubin is a good Big Ten back.

Agree to disagree
He doesn’t have second level speed and he doesn’t make guys miss or break tackles

He is a running back on a team that was 1-4 in the 5 games you mentioned

 

[Some guy]

He's a good big ten #2. If we get a healthy Taylor and Nubin for all of 2024 I would like that backfield. At 4.4 YPC if we can upgrade from Nubin I'm all for that as well.

I think he’s a fine 3
If he is our 2 DT better stay healthy

 

[Panthadad2]

So, I'm curious, which of Taylor's big runs do you all wish were taken away and replaced with an incomplete pass or less effective run?

 

[Some guy]

So, I'm curious, which of Taylor's big runs do you all wish were taken away and replaced with an incomplete pass or less effective run?

Consensus in this thread to me reads that nobody is upset about yesterday but most don’t think it’s a sustainable model to bank on for 13 games next year

Personally I would like to see Taylor at 18-25 touches per game most games and just a few 25+ touch games that are very close games. And in those games he is getting over 50% those touches after halftime not before halftime.

 

[Tech Machine]

Given circumstances of yesterday's game (workload for the season, no game next week, in his hometown & QB situation) had really had no issue Taylor getting 30+ carries against Bowling Green.

I am sure he wanted to get as much on tape for his next stop, whenever and wherever that is. Hopefully it's for the 2026 NFL Draft.

Two thoughts though:

- My opinion, RBs only have so much tread on the tires, whether it's used up in HS, College or Pro.

- Sure would have been nice if Taylor had been able to play in the late stages of the the Northwestern game as well as Illinois, when all they needed was a 1st down or 2 to salt away victories. I think at minimum they would have been 7-5 if he had remained healthy, perhaps could have been a difference maker against Wisconsin, too.

I have no idea if it was the number of carries that caused his injury in the first place, just lamenting what could have been.

- My opinion, RBs only have so much tread on the tires, whether it's used up in HS, College or Pro

I think this represents the bottom line, a single game doesn’t wreck a guy, maybe even a single season doesn’t wear a guy out, but 3 big time college football seasons….probably won’t help the pro career.

Top rbs are crazy to spend more time than needed in college. If they are a rated 5th round or better, declare For the draft.

Of course all just my personal opinion.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I don’t think Nubin is good enough to get those carries. Hopefully we have someone else

I think Nubin is, and will get better next year. For a guy who mostly played defense in HS, he certainly picked up the run game quickly. I can see him getting 5-15 carries a game as the backup next year.

 

[MNVCGUY]

This topic gets so beaten to death on this board.

I truly don't think there is a correct answer. Some backs can handle a big workload, some can't. Worrying about the 2024 split in RB carries right now is pretty pointless until we see what Bangura looks like and what the offense with more competent QB play (hopefully) looks like.

To me, in a perfect world we have Taylor running it 20-25 times a game with some combination of other backs picking up the rest. But in the end if Taylor is getting 30+ a game and putting up huge numbers then great.

Kid ran for 800 yards in 5 games as a true freshman. That is insane production for a kid that was in high school last year.

 

[Some guy]

I think Nubin is, and will get better next year. For a guy who mostly played defense in HS, he certainly picked up the run game quickly. I can see him getting 5-15 carries a game as the backup next year.

Perhaps
I don’t see it. I may be wrong

 

[MNVCGUY]

I think Nubin is, and will get better next year. For a guy who mostly played defense in HS, he certainly picked up the run game quickly. I can see him getting 5-15 carries a game as the backup next year.

I like Nubin as a #3 option. Hopefully Taylor and Bangura can carry the bulk of the load and Nubin can do some spot work or maybe play on 3rd down as he seemed to do a decent job at blitz pickup.