Push overs? Sure, Fleck is willing to schedule a mediocre OOC opponent but he's still playing the same 3 guarantees that Mason had. And Mase never had the luxury of playing in the Big 10 West.
Does Fleck get asked to interview for other coaching openings ?
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Waiting for the settlement is probably what’s keeping him from pursuing a HC job. Part of his case I believe is the defamation from the accusations has damaged his employability for head coaching jobs so he’s seeking the buyout plus future income. That would kind of fall apart if he took an NFL head coaching job.
GopherTheJugular
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You think North Carolina is on par with the Mason pushovers? Maybe Colorado, but you can't predict where a P4 team will be in the future, but at least we're playing a P4 team.
Stoll had the unfortunate timing of coaching in 1970's Big Ten - the age of the "Big Two, Little 8 Conference." He had a few nice wins, and played a tough non-conference schedule, but from 1968 - 1980, either OSU or Mich won the title each year and they pretty much obliterated the other teams in the conference. Paul Giel was under the false impression that we could still win if we just got the right coach (ignoring the fact that our facilities were crap, had to move to the Metrodome, etc.). Stoll refused to "step down," so he was fired outright and the program went right into the toilet for many years.
IronRanger91
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Cal Stoll did more with less. Never should have been fired. Same for Murray.
Sorry, make it two pushovers and one mediocre team (NC and Colorado haven't exactly gone on to beat the world the seasons we've played them). Plus Mase didn't have the benefit of the lowly Big 10 west.
50PoundHead
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Fleck has a style all his own so he's not an automatic fit in some locales. That probably limits interest from others somewhat. There's no question he's a good coach and has elevated the Gopher program. Fleck has it pretty good here and unless someone comes in with an outlandish offer, he's likely in the big chair at Minnesota for the foreseeable future.
As for Fitzgerald, like others I've been a bit surprised at his self-imposed exile. There may be legal reasons for this. Good coach who made chicken salad out of chicken sh*t several seasons at Northwestern. In an earlier era (I grew up in the era of Bud Grant, Tom Landy, and other head coaches that were basically statues on the sidelines), I don't think Fitzgerald would have been a fit as an NFL coach. But when I see Siriani, Quinn, Campbell and others performing modern dance on the sidelines, maybe Fitzgerald's energy would fit in the modern game. If not as a head coach, I could easily see Fitzgerald hired as a defensive coordinator if that would interest him.
As for Fitzgerald, like others I've been a bit surprised at his self-imposed exile. There may be legal reasons for this. Good coach who made chicken salad out of chicken sh*t several seasons at Northwestern. In an earlier era (I grew up in the era of Bud Grant, Tom Landy, and other head coaches that were basically statues on the sidelines), I don't think Fitzgerald would have been a fit as an NFL coach. But when I see Siriani, Quinn, Campbell and others performing modern dance on the sidelines, maybe Fitzgerald's energy would fit in the modern game. If not as a head coach, I could easily see Fitzgerald hired as a defensive coordinator if that would interest him.
You keep saying that...but Mase also got to play the lower end teams in the conference as well. (how many times has Fleck played Indiana for example?) Oh and lets not pretend he wasn't playing the Big Ten West Teams every year too.
But sure...beyond those facts your point is correct!
Potentially "Yes", depending on what he wants. We need him more than he needs us. The U has made him very rich, and he has had a lot of success here based on our previous standards. Nothing there says he "has" to stay and coaches also get bored. He is no different. This also gets setup for him to leave with Max being gone at the end of this year. Largely unproven QB or another transfer because of the AK failure. Once again - does he see the need to recharge his batteries a different way now?
MilosRevenge
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No Big Ten West but he sure had dream schedules in the two years out of 10 he managed to have winning 5-3 records.
Just one of these on the schedule those years and he may never have finished above .500.
1999: 6-2 Michigan, 6-2 Michigan State (Saban's last year)
2003: 6-2 Ohio State, 6-2 Purdue
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Here is the 2004 gopher football schedule:
9-4 Toledo
Illinois state FCS
4-7 Colorado state
6-6 northwestern
9-3 Michigan
5-7 michigan state
3-8 Illinois
3-8 Indiana
9-3 Wisconsin
10-2 Iowa
6-6 Alabama
Here is the 2003 gopher football schedule
8-5 Tulsa
6-6 Troy
2-10 Ohio
4-8 Lafayette
3-9 penn state
10-3 Michigan
8-5 Michigan state
1-11 Illinois
2-10 Indiana
7-6 wisconsin
10-3 iowa
8-5 Oregon
Here is the 2002 schedule
SW Texas state FCS
3-9 lafayette
9-5 toledo
1-11 buffalo
7-6 Purdue
5-7 illinois
3-9 northwestern
4-8 Michigan state
14-0 Ohio state
10-3 michigan
11-2 iowa
8-6 Wisconsin
9-5 Arkansas
I am not convinced he ran the gauntlet
fmlizard
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My point is that he ends up getting an 8 figure settlement none of the rest of us would get from a past employer because he's rich and famous. More because he's famous than rich.
Few of us can use the fear of case details hitting the national media as leverage. Thousands of average Joes get stomped every day in employment law by a court system that strongly favors the big, powerful entities that can just outlast their opponents.
50PoundHead
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I'm too lazy to scroll back, but it's important to remember that Mason got 4 non-conference games and Fleck only gets 3. I thought Mason was a good coach, but let's not kid ourselves that he ever faced a brutal non-conference schedule.
50PoundHead
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M Club (and Sid) thought Smolderin' Joe Salem could do better than Stoll. Ol' Smolderin' got the Gophers over .500 in one of his four seasons and was at the helm in the historic 1981 win over tOSU at Memorial, but after that things descended quickly and he was 4-18 with two last place finishes in the Big 10 in 1982 and 1983. Really unfortunate turn for the program. Stoll was the better coach.
Schnauzer
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Mason's non conference schedules used to really frustrate me. Heavy on the MAC, light on the power conferences. And although not entirely his fault, having four non con games actually gets a bit boring if you are going to schedule all four as cup cakes.
I do think it is important to have a balanced schedule where there is a mix of MAC type schools and an occasional FCS among the first three games to set things up for the season, get players comfortable in their roles before the bigger bullets start flying, etc.
Quite frankly, The Fleck schedules seem very fair to me. Things are scheduled so far in advance, you can't know that Colorado will be in the dumpster when you play them or if TCU is a top 5 team when you finally play them. All you can do is take your three NON CON games, mix in one power conference foe, and make sure the two cupcakes are early on the schedule.
I do think it is important to have a balanced schedule where there is a mix of MAC type schools and an occasional FCS among the first three games to set things up for the season, get players comfortable in their roles before the bigger bullets start flying, etc.
Quite frankly, The Fleck schedules seem very fair to me. Things are scheduled so far in advance, you can't know that Colorado will be in the dumpster when you play them or if TCU is a top 5 team when you finally play them. All you can do is take your three NON CON games, mix in one power conference foe, and make sure the two cupcakes are early on the schedule.
And on the east west alignment the two teams he played the least were Rutgers and Indiana
The east west gave him the fewest games against the bottom two teams in the league.
A lot of people would get a severance for being let go
You’re correct most people wouldn’t get 8 figures
But he also had a 7 figure salary
Agree
While avoiding yearly matchups with the best teams in the conference. You think playing round robin in the west compares to annual games with Mich, OSU, PSU, Mich St?
In the pre Nebraska big ten you didn’t have yearly games with those schools.
The gophers missed Ohio state in 2002 and 2003
The gophers missed Michigan in 99 and 2000
The gophers missed Penn state in 2001 and 2002
Michigan state would be a great team to play ever year during that era
Michigan state without dantonio is very different than Michigan state with dantonio
Mason was 5-3 against Michigan state
His 5 wins were against 4 teams .500 or worse. The only MSU team that finished ranked in the mason era, the gophers missed.
1997 7-5 beat gophers
1998 6-6 lost to gophers
1999 10-2 did not play
2000 5-6 did not play
2001 7-5 lost to gophers
2002 4-8 lost to gophers
2003 8-5 beat gophers
2004 5-7 beat gophers
2005 5-6 lost to gophers
2006 4-8 lost to gophers
What a coincidence that masons best two years 99 and 03 he had extremely fortuitous schedules. Missing 10-2 Michigan state and 10-2 Michigan in 1999. Missing 11-2 Ohio state and 9-4 Purdue in 2003.
In 6 years fleck played in the East/west alignment
Michigan state 3 times and was 2-1
Penn state 2 times and was 1-1
Ohio state 3 times and was 0-3
Michigan 3 times and was 0-3
Rutgers 2 times and was 2-0
Indiana 2 times and was 2-0
Maryland 5 times and was 2-3
Wisconsin 7 times and was 3-4
Iowa 7 times and was 1-6
Illinois 7 times and was 3-4
Purdue 7 times and was 4-3
Nebraska 7 times and was 6-1
Northwestern 6 times and was 3-3
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No...but he also got a 4th game against a patsy so that helps too.
Keep trying.
(plus we didn't play them every year anyways so your whole argument is crap)
You are right. I've seen the error of my ways. The Big 10 West was superior to the Big 11. I should have recognized that with the very many Big 10 champions that emanated therefrom and the CFP contenders it annually produced. Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Purdue, Illinois and Northwestern were all at their zenith during the Division's short run. No wonder Fleck couldn't win the division title.
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Mason had the weakest schedules. This is silly.
PMWinSTP
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If he gets paid, it's because he had an employment contact that clearly spelled out details around his termination and severance.
Yet, somehow during Mason's tenure at Minnesota, every Big Ten team won at least a share of a Big Ten title except him, Michigan State and Indiana. The Big Ten was never easier to win than during Mason's tenure. And he helmed one of the three programs to fail to do it at least once while he was the coach here.
50PoundHead
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I don't want to dump on Mason because I believe he was a pretty good coach who put a rudder back on the program. Indiana has been brought up, but Mason's team were 5-3 against the Hoosiers so the Gophers didn't exactly dominate them during Mason's tenure.
The Gophers lost a game 20-19 when Adam Bailey missed a chip shot (badly) late in the game due to heavy winds. They also lost one of the wildest games in Gopher history 51-43 during the 2000 season when Antwan Randle-El put up 473 yards in total offense (263 passing/210 rushing). I remember the Gopher play-by-play voice (I think it was still Ray Christensen) verbally pulling his hair out over the Gophers' inability to stop Randle-El. Gophers would have Indiana third-and-long, but it seemed like it was never long enough as Randle-El would pull the proverbial rabbit out of the proverbial hat and move the chains.
The Gophers lost a game 20-19 when Adam Bailey missed a chip shot (badly) late in the game due to heavy winds. They also lost one of the wildest games in Gopher history 51-43 during the 2000 season when Antwan Randle-El put up 473 yards in total offense (263 passing/210 rushing). I remember the Gopher play-by-play voice (I think it was still Ray Christensen) verbally pulling his hair out over the Gophers' inability to stop Randle-El. Gophers would have Indiana third-and-long, but it seemed like it was never long enough as Randle-El would pull the proverbial rabbit out of the proverbial hat and move the chains.
So your kink is not just being wrong, but repeating yourself so much that everyone mocks you incessantly?
Or is it that you cannot read?
No one is saying what you seem to be so worried about, we are just saying you are forgetting other factors that make your entire argument a joke. Like playing Indiana 8 times. And while he didn't play "The Big Ten West" he did play Iowa and Wisconsin every year. He played Illinois 6 times in 10 years, Northwestern 6 times in 10 years and Purdue 8 times in 10 years. (we will leave Nebraska out of this for obvious reasons but if he had played Nebraska they would have smoked him every year)
Iowa: 4-6
Wisconsin: 2-8
Illinois: 5-1
Northwestern: 4-2
Purdue: 1-7
Total Record versus the Big Ten West: 16-24
So...he may not have faced all of the teams every year but he wasn't exactly beating those teams when he did. Add in that he got an extra patsy game and you should really just quit this argument.
Hey I love Mason...I did a happy dance when we hired him and had student season tickets starting in 1998. (for way too long because I was in and out of school) I am not ripping him, just saying these things need to be in put in context.
I was in my buddy's dorm at SCSU listening to that Indiana game...that was painful. The 2000 game was painful to watch as well.
And the funniest part about what he is saying is he is saying that either Mason had it was easier of fleck does
But in reality it’s pretty nuanced.
I would say Mason had easier schedules to go 6-6 against once the season expanded to 12 games for sure. Probably had a schedule easier to go 6-5 against than fleck has to go 6-6 against.
Fleck probably was more likely to catch a schedule with no top 3 big ten teams on it. But never did.
They both caught schedules where they missed two of the top 3.