Do you want Ben back for a fourth year?

Do you want Ben back for a fourth year?

  • Yes, Ben deserves to return next season for Year 4.

    Votes: 129 59.4%

  • No, we need a new coach for next season.

    Votes: 88 40.6%
  • Total voters
    217
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I think one of the key issues at the center of all this comes down to:

how much time does a coach need to rebuild a program in his desired scheme?

and that is where we get a lot of the arguments.

one side says a coach needs at least 3 or 4 years to recruit players for his system and build up a competitive roster.

the other side says, in the age of NIL and the transfer portal, a coach can re-construct a roster in 1 season, or 2 at most.

either way, there need to be results. in the end, I'm OK with Johnson getting a 4th season. But if the Gophers are not an NCAA team next season, I think Johnson is gone.
 

howeda7 said:
The Gophers have had five coaches in the last 36 years. Five. And you're acting like we just fire coaches left and right.

When we've determined the current guy isn't going to get it done we move on until we find that guy.
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And when/if that finally happens ..... you enjoy it for the year or two it lasts until he gets called up to a bigger/blue blood program. Like the Texas Tech guy.
 

Let’s give him one more year, as long as there are no significant outgoing transfers.
 

MplsGopher said:
And when/if that finally happens ..... you enjoy it for the year or two it lasts until he gets called up to a bigger/blue blood program. Like the Texas Tech guy.
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Would love it if a MN Gophers men's basketball coach was SO good that he was lured away by a bigger blue blood. Has NEVER happened and doubt it will. Keep throwing out those false narratives.
 

howeda7 said:
The Gophers have had five coaches in the last 36 years. Five. And you're acting like we just fire coaches left and right.

When we've determined the current guy isn't going to get it done we move on until we find that guy. If we can't do any better than 15-44, fold the program.
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Well said.
 


MplsGopher said:
As a representative of that group, I'm curious your thoughts on how it has gone at Rutgers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Pikiell#Head_coaching_record

Fire? Another year?
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I honestly have paid very little attention to them but based on the way they are trending I think you give him one more year to get things back on track. If they miss the tournament again next year it might be time to move on.

But again....I really haven't given their situation much of any thought at all so don't know specifics about recruiting, roster.....just basing that only on record.
 

Big Dawg said:
Would love it if a MN Gophers men's basketball coach was SO good that he was lured away by a bigger blue blood. Has NEVER happened and doubt it will. Keep throwing out those false narratives.
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It's happened once in a major sport: Lou Holtz. It's happened a couple times in other sports: Women's Basketball and Softball. Could it happen in Men's basketball? Sure. Is it likely? No.

Tubby had multiple chances to leave. He never did. PJ's had chances to leave. He hasn't. We can stop acting like Minnesota is Backwater U. Especially in the Big 2/Everyone Else era we're in now.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think one of the key issues at the center of all this comes down to:

how much time does a coach need to rebuild a program in his desired scheme?

and that is where we get a lot of the arguments.

one side says a coach needs at least 3 or 4 years to recruit players for his system and build up a competitive roster.

the other side says, in the age of NIL and the transfer portal, a coach can re-construct a roster in 1 season, or 2 at most.

either way, there need to be results. in the end, I'm OK with Johnson getting a 4th season. But if the Gophers are not an NCAA team next season, I think Johnson is gone.
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As a general rule of thumb I am always for giving coaches multiple years before blowing it up and starting over.

I get it, fans want to win right away, and then they see examples of some other team doing it and assume it's easy and that their team should be able to do it too.

Things like the portal do make it easier in some ways to win quickly, but the portal also causes problems as well in that you can lose guys you were counting on far easier than you ever could in the past.

I'm right there with you on your final section. Johnson needs to have a good year next year or he almost certainly gets fired. And at this point a good year for this team would involve making the NCAA Tournament.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I honestly have paid very little attention to them but based on the way they are trending I think you give him one more year to get things back on track. If they miss the tournament again next year it might be time to move on.

But again....I really haven't given their situation much of any thought at all so don't know specifics about recruiting, roster.....just basing that only on record.
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OK.

That's fine to base the opinion only on record. At the end of the day, that's what matters, isn't it? You wouldn't give a Ben a 5th year because you knew some specifics about recruiting and roster but had a bad record next year?
 



Big Dawg said:
Would love it if a MN Gophers men's basketball coach was SO good that he was lured away by a bigger blue blood. Has NEVER happened and doubt it will.
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Which MBB coaches would even qualify?? I'm thinking realistically, none?

Even going back to Dutcher, it looks like he really just had one really good seasons 81-82 with a bunch of OK seasons around it and then fell off at the end. Haskins also appears to have had one really good season, with a bunch of 10-8 conference records otherwise.

Monson, don't know why he wasn't fired after 2003-04. Doesn't look like he did much here. Tubby, best conf record here was 9-9. Pitino best was 11-7 conf one year.


So it begs the question: do you think that say a couple seasons in a row of 15+ conf wins is just impossible here? Or are you saying that you think the ideal thing here would be a coach that wins enough to satisfy fans, but not enough to get on the radar of major programs? Is that slice possible?
 


MNVCGUY said:
Well said. The negative crowd loves to pretend like there is a group that is blindly supporting Ben no matter what which is not the case and never has been. There is the group that has hated the hire from day one and won't stop complaining until the coach is fired because they have decided there is no possible way it can work out.

And there is a second group that will fully admit that the first two years were awful but is also willing to have some patience and see how things play out. This year was a step in the right direction. As long as the trajectory continues in the right direction we will be willing to ride with Johnson.

If/When things take a downturn you will be hard pressed to find anyone here that will not be on board with a coaching change.
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Sure, there are a lot of people who were not a fan of the hire and have been ripping him from the start. That said, it's not like his first three years have yielded "silence the naysayers" type results.

I probably characterize the two groups a little differently than you do. Group 1 thinks that the awful results from the first three years are sufficient evidence that he is not a very good coach (and, in many of their eyes, confirm what they already suspected based on his resume when he was hired).

Group 2 thinks that the three years are an insufficient sample to draw that conclusion. They point to the upward trajectory and relative success of year 3 as evidence. I personally think this group is overstating the success of year 3 because either it helps them believe what they want or their bar was so lowered by how bad his first two years were that even a year where we missed the NCAAs and weren't really close to the bubble looks good by comparison. Im sure group 2 would counter that I am too unwilling to see the positives in year 3 because I am so dug in after the first two years.

Neither group is objectively wrong, which is part of what is fun about sports. I also have to assume that the vast majority of both groups would be thrilled if next season we contend for the Big Ten title and make a run to the Sweet 16 regardless of whether it is Johnson or a new coach who gets us there.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I honestly have paid very little attention to them but based on the way they are trending I think you give him one more year to get things back on track. If they miss the tournament again next year it might be time to move on.

But again....I really haven't given their situation much of any thought at all so don't know specifics about recruiting, roster.....just basing that only on record.
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According to 247, Rutgers has the #3 ranked recruiting class nationally in 2024.
Ace Bailey is ranked 2nd nationally, is McD's AA. Dylan Harper is ranked 4th nationally, also a McD's AA. Each ranked #1 at their positions. Also have 3 3 stars signed, ranked 102, 147, 176 nationally.
Of course they still have to produce at Rutgers.
https://247sports.com/college/rutgers/Season/2024-Basketball/Commits

Minnesota's class is ranked 73rd by 247.
 



howeda7 said:
The Gophers have had five coaches in the last 36 years. Five. And you're acting like we just fire coaches left and right.

When we've determined the current guy isn't going to get it done we move on until we find that guy. If we can't do any better than 15-44, fold the program.
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I get that but Ben started with 1 player in his first year and the next year had 3 return( I think). Finally got some players to stay and did pretty good in the portal and you want to fire him... I don't get it

Everybody in today's world doesn't want to do the work it takes to succeed. The I WANT TO WIN NOW mentality.

Let's discuss again in 2025
 





Gopherbbdude said:
I get that but Ben started with 1 player in his first year and the next year had 3 return( I think). Finally got some players to stay and did pretty good in the portal and you want to fire him... I don't get it

Everybody in today's world doesn't want to do the work it takes to succeed. The I WANT TO WIN NOW mentality.

Let's discuss again in 2025
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If we are discussing again in 2025 then the decision to fire would be correct now.
 





Gopherbbdude said:
Hope is a funny thing.... we can hope for a top 10 coach in the country.... will we get one here.... not a chance. U OF MN will never, in my lifetime, pay a top 10 bball coach the kind of money the want.
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It's not just a question of how much they are willing to pay. What established, successful, high profile coach, who is already making plenty of money at a high end job, wants to risk his career on rebuilding Minnesota?

Really good, proven coaches already have good jobs.
 




salzie said:
I wanted Craig Smith who isn't going so well
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I recall them beating Oregon to get to 14-5 (5-3), earlier in the season.

Just checked now and they finished the regular season at 18-13 (9-11).

Was 10-10 his 2nd year, so 3rd year definitely flattened out the upwards trajectory of the 2nd year.
 
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howeda7 said:
The Gophers have had five coaches in the last 36 years. Five. And you're acting like we just fire coaches left and right.

When we've determined the current guy isn't going to get it done we move on until we find that guy. If we can't do any better than 15-44, fold the program.
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You would fold the program after going 18-14 and 9-11?
 

MplsGopher said:
Another question I have for you and those in the same school of thought on this point:

even if we assume everyone comes back, they didn't get it done this year. is there really enough room for all these guys to improve, by working hard enough in the the weight room, practice court, etc. and make up that gap?

Players can only improve so much. At some point they get close to their talent ceiling.


I don't know, to me I feel skeptical sometimes that a guy by year 4 has much room left to hit a whole additional gear better.
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The current team, if everyone returns, would not be that much better next year. Christie and Payne can be a lot better, Hawkins and Mitchell a little better. Garcia and Fox are not going to be a lot better if any.

To be markedly better next year we need three solid portal players good enough to compete for starts and playing time with guys who are here. A power forward, a center, and a wing. Johnson's only job right now is the portal.
 

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