Did the Gophers improve their backcourt this offseason?

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Not sure Stats are the best way to try and frame this discussion and won't know for sure until we see the new guys on the court. But gut feeling is that the 23-24 backcourt will be significantly better than the 22-23 version.

Two experienced guards who look like they should both be solid in Mitchell and Hawkins to go along with a sophomore in Carrington and a freshman in Christie.

vs.

One experience guard in Cooper, one experienced limited bench piece in Samuels, and 2 true freshman Henley and Carrington.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Not sure Stats are the best way to try and frame this discussion and won't know for sure until we see the new guys on the court. But gut feeling is that the 23-24 backcourt will be significantly better than the 22-23 version.

Two experienced guards who look like they should both be solid in Mitchell and Hawkins to go along with a sophomore in Carrington and a freshman in Christie.

vs.

One experience guard in Cooper, one experienced limited bench piece in Samuels, and 2 true freshman Henley and Carrington.
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I think someone said on here Henley was a D2 guy at beginning of the year. While, I thought be meeded much work, he had aome talent. However, he was really, really bad, until about the last month. Then, the improvements started to reach a critical mass affect.

So, I guess back court improvement, from the end of the year, is definitely different than throughout tbe year.

Either way, I still think the answer is yes.
 


I would say yes for the simple fact that there shouldn't be two freshman that are forced to play more minutes than they are probably ready for.
 


atsgopher said:
I think someone said on here Henley was a D2 guy at beginning of the year. While, I thought be meeded much work, he had aome talent. However, he was really, really bad, until about the last month. Then, the improvements started to reach a critical mass affect.

So, I guess back court improvement, from the end of the year, is definitely different than throughout tbe year.

Either way, I still think the answer is yes.
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Agreed, and one significant difference may be on the defensive side. While Henley got better defensively through the year, keeping people in front of them was a problem for our guards all year, in particular against some of the quicker guards we faced.

We also may have two guys who can break down a defense better and score or kick to shooters. Cooper had the ball in his hands most of the time, and that was not a strength of his. It won't hurt to have 2 new solid 3 pt shooters either.

And finally, let's pray it won't take 3-4 min to get the ball up the court! (It felt like 5 min sometimes). Yes, my vote is better this year, but nobody will truly know until the games start.
 


atsgopher said:
I think someone said on here Henley was a D2 guy at beginning of the year. While, I thought be meeded much work, he had aome talent. However, he was really, really bad, until about the last month. Then, the improvements started to reach a critical mass affect.

So, I guess back court improvement, from the end of the year, is definitely different than throughout tbe year.

Either way, I still think the answer is yes.
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Henley and Carrington were both playing significantly better towards the end of the season than they were in the first part which makes perfect sense for true freshmen.

But yeah, overall I think we are in a much better place to start the year in the backcourt than we were at the start of the 22-23 season. We just won't know for sure until we actually get to see the new guys play.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Is the backcourt improved? Yes. Is it enough to move the needle next year? Not sure.
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Not sure is the correct answer. The backcourt will be better, the bigs will be better, depth will be better. Will the team stay healthy and gel together well? If so we should be much better than last year. This should be a fun team to watch!
 




MNVCGUY said:
Not sure Stats are the best way to try and frame this discussion and won't know for sure until we see the new guys on the court. But gut feeling is that the 23-24 backcourt will be significantly better than the 22-23 version.

Two experienced guards who look like they should both be solid in Mitchell and Hawkins to go along with a sophomore in Carrington and a freshman in Christie.

vs.

One experience guard in Cooper, one experienced limited bench piece in Samuels, and 2 true freshman Henley and Carrington.
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This might come as a shock...but I agree with most of this! Stats for transfers up can be deceiving a bit. Different leagues, styles, roles.

I would say on the surface, this looks like an improvement. This discussion should also include Carrington who will likely be better and Christie who almost has to be better than Henley.

I guess my concern is that while we will likely be better, that bar was so low that I'm not sure that's anything to write home about. This isn't like we added a Carr type impact guy. I know that's not pure optimism but to me it's the facts.
 

leib0039 said:
I guess my concern is that while we will likely be better, that bar was so low that I'm not sure that's anything to write home about. This isn't like we added a Carr type impact guy. I know that's not pure optimism but to me it's the facts.
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At this point pretty much anything is possible in 23-24.

Mitchell, Hawkins, Christie, Betts, Fox, Ihnen, and Wilson are all unknowns in terms of exactly how they will fit together and play for the Gophers. Hopefully they will gel quickly with the returning guys and we will actually get to see a halfway decent squad this season.
 

Finally we have an uptempo backcourt. Add to that greatly improved defense from them.
 




Too early to tell. The bar wasn't set very high last year so the obvious answer is "yes". But as with any transfers from conferences with lower skill level/players, how does the skill set translate against better athletes? Hopefully this team survives the summer without any catastrophic injuries. At least at that point, they would have more options.

The question that will linger for me is whether or not this coaching staff can go toe to toe with the other coaches in this league. On that metric, the Gophers still have far and away the least accomplished talent.

Time will tell on both questions.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
I think the better question is, how does this backcourt rank in the B1G?
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Not only that, but how does this backcourt compare to Ben's first season? Nearly anything is an upgrade over last season's backcourt, which was likely the worst in Gopher basketball history.

It's amazing how far we've come from when everyone was complaining about the lack of talent on Ben's first squad, some thinking it was the worst Gopher team ever assembled before the season started. But it was better than last season's, and that backcourt had:

Luke Loewe - 16.2p, 3.2a, 43.6 FG%, 1.5 TOs at William & Mary
EJ Stephens - 16.4p, 2.5a, 45.5 FG%, 2.1 TOs at Lafayette
Peyton Willis - 13.4p, 3.4a, 46 FG%, 1.5 TOs at College of Charleston

Now we're celebrating bringing 2 guys who put up worse scoring numbers and higher TO numbers at Pepperdine and Howard, when this team desperately needs scoring? Ben's 1st backcourt still wasn't good, and this one is not nearly as good as that one was.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Not only that, but how does this backcourt compare to Ben's first season? Nearly anything is an upgrade over last season's backcourt, which was likely the worst in Gopher basketball history.

It's amazing how far we've come from when everyone was complaining about the lack of talent on Ben's first squad, some thinking it was the worst Gopher team ever assembled before the season started. But it was better than last season's, and that backcourt had:

Luke Loewe - 16.2p, 3.2a, 43.6 FG%, 1.5 TOs at William & Mary
EJ Stephens - 16.4p, 2.5a, 45.5 FG%, 2.1 TOs at Lafayette
Peyton Willis - 13.4p, 3.4a, 46 FG%, 1.5 TOs at College of Charleston

Now we're celebrating bringing 2 guys who put up worse scoring numbers and higher TO numbers at Pepperdine and Howard, when this team desperately needs scoring? Ben's 1st backcourt still wasn't good, and this one is not nearly as good as that one was.
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Again, lots of stats irrelevant to 23-24. Attempting to make fact from minutia.
 




GopherWeatherGuy said:
Not only that, but how does this backcourt compare to Ben's first season? Nearly anything is an upgrade over last season's backcourt, which was likely the worst in Gopher basketball history.

It's amazing how far we've come from when everyone was complaining about the lack of talent on Ben's first squad, some thinking it was the worst Gopher team ever assembled before the season started. But it was better than last season's, and that backcourt had:

Luke Loewe - 16.2p, 3.2a, 43.6 FG%, 1.5 TOs at William & Mary
EJ Stephens - 16.4p, 2.5a, 45.5 FG%, 2.1 TOs at Lafayette
Peyton Willis - 13.4p, 3.4a, 46 FG%, 1.5 TOs at College of Charleston

Now we're celebrating bringing 2 guys who put up worse scoring numbers and higher TO numbers at Pepperdine and Howard, when this team desperately needs scoring? Ben's 1st backcourt still wasn't good, and this one is not nearly as good as that one was.
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Lowe, Stephens and Willis had very very little front court help. I like the look of our "guard room" as they get to work with a front court of Payne and Garcia. I think most guard tandems(tri's) wouldn't mind a front court that the Gophers should field this fall.
 

It can’t really be much worse can it? Last years backcourt was as bad as I can recall.
 

Big Dawg said:
Lowe, Stephens and Willis had very very little front court help. I like the look of our "guard room" as they get to work with a front court of Payne and Garcia. I think most guard tandems(tri's) wouldn't mind a front court that the Gophers should field this fall.
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No doubt about it, that would have been a really good team with Payne and Garcia and those guards. Gives me hope for the coming year....
 


I would phrase the question this way - will the backcourt compliment the front court?

in '21-22 the Gophers were a very guard- and perimeter-oriented team.

in '22-23, the Gophers became a more inside-oriented team because of the issues with the backcourt.

hopefully (if Johnson wants to keep his job) the '23-24 team will display a lot more balance and be able to play as an entire unit - frontcourt, backcourt and bench.

(hey, a guy can dream, can't he?)
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I would phrase the question this way - will the backcourt compliment the front court?

in '21-22 the Gophers were a very guard- and perimeter-oriented team.

in '22-23, the Gophers became a more inside-oriented team because of the issues with the backcourt.

hopefully (if Johnson wants to keep his job) the '23-24 team will display a lot more balance and be able to play as an entire unit - frontcourt, backcourt and bench.

(hey, a guy can dream, can't he?)
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Yes, excellent framing.
 


I still think we need 1 more guard / wing that’s decent to be able to talk anything about possibly getting an NCAA bid.

Sounds like Ben is pushing to fill that last spot as well.

Good pickup by Ben, but this is still a lower level Big 10 backcourt at the moment.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Luke Loewe - 16.2p, 3.2a, 43.6 FG%, 29.8% 3PT, 3.2 AST 1.5 TOs at William & Mary
EJ Stephens - 16.4p, 2.5a, 45.5 FG%, 32.7% 3PT, 2.5 AST 2.1 TOs at Lafayette
Payton Willis - 13.4p, 3.4a, 46 FG%, 40.0% 3PT, 3.1 AST 1.5 TOs at College of Charleston

Now we're celebrating bringing 2 guys who put up worse scoring numbers and higher TO numbers at Pepperdine and Howard, when this team desperately needs scoring? Ben's 1st backcourt still wasn't good, and this one is not nearly as good as that one was.
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Man, you don't need to cherry pick in this way to make Ben sound bad. Why'd you give us FG% and turnovers, but not include 3P or assists?? His tenure has been a disaster, but you come off as disingenuous when you make omissions like this. ParticuIarly when Hawkins/Mitchell ran point for their teams. I put their numbers into your post in bold.

Mike Mitchell - 44.0% 3PT, 5.0 AST at Pepperdine
Elijah Hawkins - 46.6% 3PT, 6.0 AST at Howard

The weakness of that first team was roster construction: all three of those guys were combo guards but no true point guards and they had absolutely zero frontcourt help. To the point we pulled a graduate assistant out of retirement to be our starter.

Funny thing is Willis actually improved his scoring moving up from College of Charleston, and Stephens improved his 3PT to a career best 38.7%.

This team looks like it could be both Ben's most talented as well as the first time that he has had a roster that fits well together.
 

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