Did anyone listen to Danny B and Mason today?

[2727Gopher]

Mason got to 5-3 in the Big Ten twice in 10 years. But even Gutekunst got to 5-3 in the Big Ten twice in just six years. There's no reason to think that 5-3 has to be some miraculous thing that only happens every once in a blue moon.

Keep in mind that that 80's was a somewhat down time for the Big Ten and there was no Penn State or Nebraska on the conference schedule, so 5-3 in the new Big Ten is much more significant than 5-3 was during Gutey's time. I'm not saying that we can't do it, but it's a more imposing task now.

 

[theTurning]

Mason sounds more and more like a little girl talking smack about the boy that dumped her...and Danny B is her nerdy friend who used to bash her behind her back and now acts like her best friend.

x2

burrito is sooo transparent about the whole thing. it's honestly made me view him in a different light. he's a complete phony. just pathetic.

 

[theTurning]

Keep in mind that that 80's was a somewhat down time for the Big Ten and there was no Penn State or Nebraska on the conference schedule, so 5-3 in the new Big Ten is much more significant than 5-3 was during Gutey's time. I'm not saying that we can't do it, but it's a more imposing task now.

i've never seen a fanbase with a bigger loser's mentality.

here's next year's conference schedule:

Michigan - Winnable
Purdue - Winnable
Nebraska - Loss
Iowa - Winnable
Michigan State - Loss
Wisconsin - Loss
Northwestern - Winnable
Illinois - Winnable

Christ, you people act like this is the SEC.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

It is highly unlikely that any coach who comes to the U of M in the next fifteen to twenty five years will surpass Mason's record at Minnesota of lasting 10 seasons and winning as many games as he won. The odds just are not very good of that happening. I wish Coach Kill nothing but the very best. But, you dudes and dudettes who talk so much smack are just plain out to lunch. The odds of any coach coming to Minnesota and lasting 10 seasons...even with the new stadium got worse when Nebraska came into the Big Ten. Perhaps the addition of Nebraska helps to negate the new stadium, because Mason never had the benefit of the new stadium, even though they needed to extend his contract to get the new stadium deal done. Mason never benefited from it. And, brewster couldn't win more than 6 Big Ten games even though he HAD the promise of the new stadim and eventually the new stadium to benefit from. Hell, he didn't even have the addition of Nebraska to hinder his Big Ten win record. Coach Kill will have the Nebraska factor to deal with right away.

You try to trash people. But, here is the thing: you do NOT have a clue about how tough it is going to be to get a 5-3 OR better Big Ten record every once in a while for Coach Kill or any other coach who is here. And, when the Big Ten schedule goes to 9 Big Ten games, it is going to be even tougher. To get to the 6-6 and 7-5 mark overall can be done...but...to get those 8-4, 9-3 and 10-2 types of records is going to be mighty hard to do. And, if there is any rebuilding to do, it will get any coach off to a tough start. So, winning as many games as possible in the FIRST season is absolutely essential for any coach hoping to last at least five seasons.

And you people just sound so full of yourselves as you try to trash a former player or coach. Just a note to each of you: your talk is cheap. Big Ten wins are mighty hard to come by. Just wait and watch. Getting much past a 4-4 Big Ten record (with the 8 game Big Ten schedule) is a mighty fine piece of work. Some of you NEVER seem to learn...

Walrus/Wren-

I understand that you respect the accomplishments of Coach Mason and do not understand those who question his greatness. However, let's dig a little deeper than overall record and see how Coach Mason arrived at his numbers.

In Glen Mason's 10 seasons, not including Bowl Games, Minnesota played 34 non-conference games. Of those 34, 3 that is right, THREE, were played against teams from BCS conferences. That is truly embarrassing and pathetic. As a season ticket holder, I did not like it. In fact, I believe ESPN.com did an article a few years back about the BCS conference schools and their non-conference scheduling where Minnesota had scheduled either the fewest or second fewest non-conference BCS opponents of all the BCS schools, during the BCS era.

Let us dig even further. Those games against another BCS team were played in 1997 against Iowa State, so that game was on the schedule before Mason arrived. Iowa State was 1-10 that year. The second game was against Baylor in 2000. Baylor was 2-9 that year. I am not sure if Mason scheduled that game or not. Baylor did cancel the return game on us. The final BCS non-conference game of the Mason era was in 2006 against a good Cal team.

So Mason attempted to get to 3-0 or 4-0 in the non-conference by loading up on cream puffs and was unwilling to schedule another BCS conference opponent. The record you and everybody else should focus on is 32-48. That is his Big Ten record. I do not think a guy who goes 32-48 in the Big Ten should be held up as some great coach. There is nothing wrong with a fanbase demanding better than 32-48 in conference play and having the stones to schedule at least one decent non-conference game. That is the one think I will get Timmy B. credit for. It was much more fun at TCF having Cal and USC come to town as opposed to Memphis.

I know you will continue to prop up Mason, but please understand that the guy was unwilling to challenge himself in the non-conference. I think that showed up time and time again when things got even the slightest bit challenging in the Big Ten he folded and collapsed like a house of cards.

 

[exiledinduluth]

Mason's non-confernece schedule of directional-hyphenated and Toledo/Akron/Miami of Ohio was his key to success. Hopefully that schedule doesn't return

 

[Goldmember]

Mason's non-confernece schedule of directional-hyphenated and Toledo/Akron/Miami of Ohio was his key to success. Hopefully that schedule doesn't return

How is that any different than what Auburn or LSU does to this day?

I like high-profile OOC games as much as anyone. People make it sound like Mason chose to play these teams. He didn't. The Big Ten had a scheduling agreement with the MAC. Minnesota had to play Sub Belt teams becuase of the low revenue that the Metrodome brought-in.

As soon as TCF looked likely, Minnesota started scheduling good OOC opponents. Mason agreed to play California and Nebraska (Nebraska refused).

In some ways, playing California in '06 might have cost Mason his job.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Goldmember-

Please...I am not asking that Minnesota or Mason when he was around have a Florida State-in-their-heyday non-conference schedule. However, you can play one BCS opponent per year. Mason DID have a say in that and he CHOSE to play a terrible NC schedule.

 

[emann]

i've never seen a fanbase with a bigger loser's mentality.

here's next year's conference schedule:

Michigan - Winnable
Purdue - Winnable
Nebraska - Loss
Iowa - Winnable
Michigan State - Loss
Wisconsin - Loss
Northwestern - Winnable
Illinois - Winnable

Christ, you people act like this is the SEC.

+1. A lot of truth here. No Ohio State and Penn State is nice.

I think the road game at Michigan will be tough, but I'm hoping that the home game against Wisconsin can be an upset special. They have to pick up at least three non-conference wins (New Mexico St./Miami (OH)/North Dakota St.) and there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do that.

If Minnesota can consistently beat the Purdue, Illinois, Indiana and Northwestern-type teams, and then compete in the rivalry games, they should be mid-tier. Then, the hope is every couple of years to ascend out of that and vie for a conference title.

 

[2727Gopher]

i've never seen a fanbase with a bigger loser's mentality.

here's next year's conference schedule:

Michigan - Winnable
Purdue - Winnable
Nebraska - Loss
Iowa - Winnable
Michigan State - Loss
Wisconsin - Loss
Northwestern - Winnable
Illinois - Winnable

Christ, you people act like this is the SEC.

The Big Ten is a deeper conference than the SEC, so a 5-3 record means more here than it does there. The SEC typically is much more top-heavy. I also don't think that pointing out that 5-3 is harder today than in the 80's means I have a "loser's mentality". After all, using your example, let's compare next year's schedule to Gutey's two 5-3 teams. I'll give the records of each team we played in all three cases - I'll have to use this year's records for next year's schedule though:

1986
Purdue (3-8)
Northwestern (4-7)
Indiana (6-6)
Ohio State (10-3)
Michigan State (6-5)
Wisconsin (3-9)
Michigan (11-2)
Iowa (9-3)

Average record - 6.5 wins, 5.4 losses

1990
Purdue (2-9)
Northwestern (2-9)
Indiana (6-5-1)
Ohio State (7-4-1)
Wisconsin (1-10)
Michigan State (8-3-1)
Michigan (9-3)
Iowa (8-4)

Average record - 5.4 wins, 5.9 losses, .4 ties

2011
Michigan (7-5)
Purdue (4-8)
Nebraska (10-3)
Iowa (7-5)
Michigan State (11-1)
Wisconsin (11-1)
Northwestern (7-5)
Illinois (6-6)

Average record - 7.9 wins, 4.3 losses

Now, I'll grant you that back in the day, teams played harder non-conference schedules, but that's still a big disparity in competition level. We only face one Big Ten team next year that had a losing record while we had three during both of Gutey's 5-3 seasons.

Also, keep in mind that this is one of the easiest schedules we'll have in the new Big Ten - Penn State and Ohio State are both rotated off our schedule this year, but most years we'll have at least one (and some years both) of them on the schedule.

 

[Silvio]

Walrus/Wren-

I understand that you respect the accomplishments of Coach Mason and do not understand those who question his greatness. However, let's dig a little deeper than overall record and see how Coach Mason arrived at his numbers.

In Glen Mason's 10 seasons, not including Bowl Games, Minnesota played 34 non-conference games. Of those 34, 3 that is right, THREE, were played against teams from BCS conferences. That is truly embarrassing and pathetic. As a season ticket holder, I did not like it. In fact, I believe ESPN.com did an article a few years back about the BCS conference schools and their non-conference scheduling where Minnesota had scheduled either the fewest or second fewest non-conference BCS opponents of all the BCS schools, during the BCS era.

Let us dig even further. Those games against another BCS team were played in 1997 against Iowa State, so that game was on the schedule before Mason arrived. Iowa State was 1-10 that year. The second game was against Baylor in 2000. Baylor was 2-9 that year. I am not sure if Mason scheduled that game or not. Baylor did cancel the return game on us. The final BCS non-conference game of the Mason era was in 2006 against a good Cal team.

So Mason attempted to get to 3-0 or 4-0 in the non-conference by loading up on cream puffs and was unwilling to schedule another BCS conference opponent. The record you and everybody else should focus on is 32-48. That is his Big Ten record. I do not think a guy who goes 32-48 in the Big Ten should be held up as some great coach. There is nothing wrong with a fanbase demanding better than 32-48 in conference play and having the stones to schedule at least one decent non-conference game. That is the one think I will get Timmy B. credit for. It was much more fun at TCF having Cal and USC come to town as opposed to Memphis.

I know you will continue to prop up Mason, but please understand that the guy was unwilling to challenge himself in the non-conference. I think that showed up time and time again when things got even the slightest bit challenging in the Big Ten he folded and collapsed like a house of cards.

You should know we use the Standard of BigTen wins minus BigTen losses to evaluate every coach, except Mason. During his decade tenure he managed to beat each team at least once so that makes him except from the standard way to evaluate a coach.

 

[Silvio]

How is that any different than what Auburn or LSU does to this day?

I like high-profile OOC games as much as anyone. People make it sound like Mason chose to play these teams. He didn't. The Big Ten had a scheduling agreement with the MAC. Minnesota had to play Sub Belt teams becuase of the low revenue that the Metrodome brought-in.

As soon as TCF looked likely, Minnesota started scheduling good OOC opponents. Mason agreed to play California and Nebraska (Nebraska refused).

In some ways, playing California in '06 might have cost Mason his job.

It's different when you win the majority of your conference games. Auburn and LSU typically don't need those wins over cupcake schools to get to mediocirty and bowl eligibilty, Mason led teams did.

 

[theTurning]

The Big Ten is a deeper conference than the SEC

lol

 

[Maverick]

Walrus/Wren-

I understand that you respect the accomplishments of Coach Mason and do not understand those who question his greatness. However, let's dig a little deeper than overall record and see how Coach Mason arrived at his numbers.

In Glen Mason's 10 seasons, not including Bowl Games, Minnesota played 34 non-conference games. Of those 34, 3 that is right, THREE, were played against teams from BCS conferences. That is truly embarrassing and pathetic. As a season ticket holder, I did not like it. In fact, I believe ESPN.com did an article a few years back about the BCS conference schools and their non-conference scheduling where Minnesota had scheduled either the fewest or second fewest non-conference BCS opponents of all the BCS schools, during the BCS era.

Let us dig even further. Those games against another BCS team were played in 1997 against Iowa State, so that game was on the schedule before Mason arrived. Iowa State was 1-10 that year. The second game was against Baylor in 2000. Baylor was 2-9 that year. I am not sure if Mason scheduled that game or not. Baylor did cancel the return game on us. The final BCS non-conference game of the Mason era was in 2006 against a good Cal team.

So Mason attempted to get to 3-0 or 4-0 in the non-conference by loading up on cream puffs and was unwilling to schedule another BCS conference opponent. The record you and everybody else should focus on is 32-48. That is his Big Ten record. I do not think a guy who goes 32-48 in the Big Ten should be held up as some great coach. There is nothing wrong with a fanbase demanding better than 32-48 in conference play and having the stones to schedule at least one decent non-conference game. That is the one think I will get Timmy B. credit for. It was much more fun at TCF having Cal and USC come to town as opposed to Memphis.

I know you will continue to prop up Mason, but please understand that the guy was unwilling to challenge himself in the non-conference. I think that showed up time and time again when things got even the slightest bit challenging in the Big Ten he folded and collapsed like a house of cards.

+ 1,000,000......

Theonly thing to consider is Big Ten record! I would be willing to bet a lot of money that ten years from now, Jerry Kill (assuming he's still here) will have far more Big Ten wins than Mason had... He is going to blow Mason away!

 

[Golden Elephant]

Nice thread, a few points
1. Some posters are correct - we do obsess too much about Mason. But we do this because he's always trying to whine about getting fired, etc., etc. A few weeks back on Dan B's show, Mason kept asserting that he literally did not know why he was fired at MN. He said something like, "I guess cause I didn't win enough games or something." Dan B did not say anything to contest this obviously idiotic statement - a statement he would've endlessly replayed and ripped before Mason was his regular guest. I did enjoy the segments, as Mason did have some interesting insights, but it was painful listening to him, as his wounds have still not healed from his firing.

2. Just pointing it out: Kill's record at NIll against Big10: 2-3(.400) Mason's Big10 record 32-48(.400)

3. I think the Big10 may be a bit better now than in Gutey's day. You look at the schedule and you realize: Wisc, Ind, NW, Ill, Purdue - those were all bad teams most years. Now it seems most Big10 teams are at least competitive every year. But in reality, it's possible that this seeming difference is really just caused by the drastically different non-conf schedules.

 

[calminnfan]

Mason gave his theory on why Leach had zero chance at the job. He thinks Leach had zero shot because after Mason got fired a Dallas newspaper asked Leach about the firing and he said the President and AD should be fired not the coach.

Though that in itself was bad enough, from what it sounds like, that incident was basically consistent with how Leach is. I don't blame the U for not wanting him.

 

[TLHGO4]

lol

Tell that to Vandy.

 

[Governor Sibley]

Glen, what were you thinking when you beat Iowa? If you had lost, you would've opened up TCF. Dummy!!!!

 

[TLHGO4]

lol

Tell that to Vandy.

 

[imthewalrus]

When maturi/Prexy B forced the failed brewball experiment on us...

I started looking ONLY at the Big Ten record to compare Mason and brewster. I agree that is the ONLY record that matters from 2007 on forward AND backward. In other words...the ONLY record that matters is the Big Ten record when comparing Minnesota coaches. 2727 is also correct that there basically was the big two...little eight through much of the 70's and 80's.

So, we are now thinking about the 2011 season and the Kill Era. I contend that you people are totally setting Coach Kill up here because you automatically go from the out house to the pent house in your "projections" of future success levels in Big Ten play for the new coach. You thump your chests and talk about how easy the new conference set up will be. You talk about how much talent is left for the new coach and how that will automatically translate into all kinds of Big Ten wins starting next season. You think that iowa will be a pushover in iowa city. You think that MSU won't show up in Minneapolis. You practically count NU as a win. You think Illinois will pretty much have to be a win. Horray...we don't play PSU and OSU in 2011...that probably is a good thing. But Michigan will be mighty tough in the Big House with or without their program wrecking coach, richrod. You think wisky will be a pushover in TCF BANK STADIUM? Purdue is pretty down...but...how many of their injured players will they get back? Just how easy is Nebraska going to be to beat?

Yes, TCF BANK STADIUM should be an advantage. Will the student section show up if the going gets tough in 2011? Will it be the kind of advantage it SHOULD be? Will it be the kind of advantage wisky and iowa get when they play at home?

I think Coach Kill is a real coach and I think he will have our returning players in an offense and defense that best suits them. I think he will coach some players up. But, as I look at next season's Big Ten schedule, I see 1 to 3 Big Ten wins at most. And, if we have qb problems and defensive problems, it would be a tough, tough season.

While non-conferece games can help when added to at least 2 or 3 Big Ten wins, they can usually only hurt you rather than help too much. IF you stumble at USC and against one other ooc team, you have set a tough tone for the entire Big Ten season.

So, it looks to me as though some of you are trying to set Coach Kill up and if we have only four or five Big Ten wins in TOTAL for the first two seasons, I fully expect a number of you to be mobbing, bashing and trashing. You say that Coach Kill is starting out with more than brewster and Mason when each of them came to the U. Mason followed Wacker and brewster followed Mason and Kill follows brewster. Maybe it's a wash...maybe not.

I'd say a realistic goal for the 2011 season is to win between 1 and 3 Big Ten games and hopefully at least 3 non-conference games. Winning Big Ten games is a heck of a lot more diffcult than you people think right now. TCF BANK STADIUM can help and needs to help...but...the addition of Nebraska pretty much negates that. Winning 5 Big Ten games in an 8 Big Ten game schedule WILL be a great accomplishment...WHEN and IF it happens. When it happens. If it happens. Those two time frames are important to remember. I think some of you just take too much for granted and will turn very nasty if your goals aren't fully met within the first two seasons. I detested the brewster hire from day one. I LIKE the Kill hire from day one. I just think it will be tough to win a lot of Big Ten games in the first couple of seasons. I have been watching Gopher Football for over half a century. Getting Big Ten wins does NOT come easily. I've seen some pretty good coaches struggle with getting Big Ten wins here at Minnesota. And NEXT season usually doesn't usually play out when trying to guess what is going on with all the other Big Ten Programs and how they will be the NEXT season. Somehow, a lot of them prove to be tougher than you think they are going to be 11 or 12 months before the NEXT season rolls around.

I trust that Coach Kill will put his players in a position to win a few Big Ten games. Every Big Ten win is a very precious win. NEVER take anything for granted. Fantasy stuff doesn't turn into reality very often.

 

[dpodoll68]

You thump your chests and talk about how easy the new conference set up will be...You think that iowa will be a pushover in iowa city. You think that MSU won't show up in Minneapolis. You practically count NU as a win. You think Illinois will pretty much have to be a win.

Please show me one poster, even one, that has said any of these things. And, again, as a reminder, your alternate personalities do not count in the survey.

Winning Big Ten games is a heck of a lot more diffcult than you people think right now.

NO ONE HERE HAS EVER SAID OTHERWISE.

Seriously, Wayne - where do you come up with this stuff? There are plenty of things to debate without having to invent new ones.

 

[RodentRampage]

When you just look at Big Ten wins, Mason comes out well behind Stoll, and not head and shoulders above the much-maligned Gutekunst. There is no thumping of chests, no one is assuming that the conference will be easy.

 

[Silvio]

I guess we only use BigTen wins to compare Mason and Brewster.

 

[Khaliq]

Tell that to Vandy.

Vandy just offered $3M per to a much better coach then we have so apparently things aren't so bad down there.

 

[RodentRampage]

There is simply no reason to expect that 5-3 is the best we can ever hope to do, and further, there is no reason to expect that we can only have this twice a decade.

 

[Khaliq]

There is simply no reason to expect that 5-3 is the best we can ever hope to do, and further, there is no reason to expect that we can only have this twice a decade.

5-3 sounds pretty optimistic to me at this point. The administration hasn't shown the commitment to anything beyond that.

 

[ruralgopher]

automatically translate into all kinds of Big Ten wins starting next season. You think that iowa will be a pushover in iowa city. You think that MSU won't show up in Minneapolis.

Next season IA is Home and MSU is on the road.

 

[dpodoll68]

Vandy just offered $3M per to a much better coach then we have so apparently things aren't so bad down there.

You mean to tell me Vanderbilt has a lot of money and they are willing to spend it to escalate their moribund never-was program? Color me shocked!

 

[Khaliq]

You mean to tell me Vanderbilt has a lot of money and they are willing to spend it to escalate their moribund never-was program? Color me shocked!

That was supposed to be us :|

 

[imthewalrus]

Stoll had his own on campus stadium to play in. He followed Big Ten championship level success from 1967 by only a few years. There was the "Big Two...Little Eight..." thing going on in the Big Ten. There were very few good teams in the Big Ten at that time. And, fianlly, it was a damning situation perpetrated by the administration at the University of Minnesota that could have cared less what happened to the football program that led to the firing of Stoll. Cal Stoll NEVER should have been fired. He was a far better coach than the University of Minnesota administrators deserved to have. He was an excellent coach and an even better person. Of course, it was the mind-set that drove Murray off...and Bierman off. And, the course of University of Minnesota played out as proving the U to be a graveyard of good, decent coaches. Only hoax escaped by ditching the U in a little less than two years. He left them holding the bag with some NCAA difficulties to deal with.

However, Cal Stoll should have picked his own time to retire. He NEVER should have been fired.

 

[RodentRampage]

Stoll had his own on campus stadium to play in. He followed Big Ten championship level success from 1967 by only a few years. There was the "Big Two...Little Eight..." thing going on in the Big Ten. There were very few good teams in the Big Ten at that time. And, fianlly, it was a damning situation perpetrated by the administration at the University of Minnesota that could have cared less what happened to the football program that led to the firing of Stoll. Cal Stoll NEVER should have been fired. He was a far better coach than the University of Minnesota administrators deserved to have. He was an excellent coach and an even better person. Of course, it was the mind-set that drove Murray off...and Bierman off. And, the course of University of Minnesota played out as proving the U to be a graveyard of good, decent coaches. Only hoax escaped by ditching the U in a little less than two years. He left them holding the bag with some NCAA difficulties to deal with.

However, Cal Stoll should have picked his own time to retire. He NEVER should have been fired.

Stoll had his own campus to play in: a decaying stadium desperately in need of rennovation. And while it is true that the Gophers had won a conference championship just five years years earlier, he didn't inherit a champion-caliber team. They weren't awful, but the Gophers did have three consecutive losing seasons and two consecutive losing conference seasons. And the support from the administration was as low as it has ever been.