Dasher's status still uncertain

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Ogee Ogilthorpe

Ogee Ogilthorpe

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The most recent update from Murfreesboro:

http://www.dnj.com/article/20100823/BLUERAIDERS01/8230315

This article makes no mention of the secondary issue, the checks that Dasher stole from his teammate and provided to Donnell as a form of "collateral".

The article makes mention of Dasher having to prove that the $1500 was a loan and not a gift. How in the world does an 80-year old man show that this was a loan? Does he have his own promissory note on his own letterhead or something? I wonder what kind of interest rate Dasher got from the old man?

As gray as this may seem, this SHOULD be cut and dried. Either Dasher provides the proper paperwork indicating that this was a loan or it was a gift. Period. Cut away the fat and that's all that it boils down to. I would imagine the NCAA is pretty clear on this as well.

All this being said, I see no way this is resolved by the time the Rodents take the field in TN next week. Dasher will take the field against Minnesota, and if they can stall it out long enough, he'll play against Troy as well.
 

Dasher also must show that the $1,500 was a loan, as Donnell said, and not a gift. Donnell told WKRN-TV that Dasher plans to repay the loan from the surplus of his scholarship money for the 2010 season.
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Money well spent by MTSU?
 


The whole thing smells fishy, whether or not it was a loan or a gift. There's just something really suspicious when a player gets a large loan or gift, getting it from an old man in some home adds to it. I've never heard of "excess" money in someone's scholarship. In any case, using scholarship money to pay off loans doesn't look like something the NCAA would look favorably upon.

Smells like a whitewash. It's the sort of thing that can cause more trouble for a school than the initial incident.
 

If everyone sticks to their story, I don't think anything will come of this. Are the cops going to arrest Dasher for not paying immediately in an underhanded loan deal? Is the NCAA going to lay down the hammer for gifts when a man is demanding repayment? Don't get me wrong - I think there is a little more going on than this, but it may not be actionable from a criminal or sanction standpoint. At least, if everyone sticks to their stories. Though, I'm not sure how the teammate's checks play into the whole thing... and the debit card. Even with those issues, is there anything actionable? Were any checks written? Is there any proof the debit card was or wasn't stolen?
 


More questions than answers

We need more data. Who is the elderly gentleman? What if any ties to MTSU? Being that he is 80 and in a nursing home, does he have someone handling his affairs, a POA and or Trust Officer? Who is that individual if he or she exists. How did the elderly gentleman get the cash or write the check without the POA knowledge? This smacks of elderly abuse, and a charge against whomever handles his affairs. Is there a connection between my supposed POA and the MTSU program? Is this theft or fraud.

And how did Dasher make contact with the gentleman? It would seem along way from field and the poker table to the nursing home.

This has booster written all over it. Was there an intermediary between Dasher and the payment.

And his repayment plan is fishy as well. Books, housing, meals and tuition in that scholarship. How does he come up with $1,000?

There are enough questions that need to be answered, but will it be investigaged fully by the Good Ol Boys in Middle Tennessee?
 

hyaluronic said:
If everyone sticks to their story, I don't think anything will come of this. Are the cops going to arrest Dasher for not paying immediately in an underhanded loan deal? Is the NCAA going to lay down the hammer for gifts when a man is demanding repayment? Don't get me wrong - I think there is a little more going on than this, but it may not be actionable from a criminal or sanction standpoint. At least, if everyone sticks to their stories. Though, I'm not sure how the teammate's checks play into the whole thing... and the debit card. Even with those issues, is there anything actionable? Were any checks written? Is there any proof the debit card was or wasn't stolen?
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Two completely different issues.

First, criminal offense. It could very well be that Dasher did not, or at least will not be proven to have done, anything punishable by law. Stealing checks from the teammate, who knows, I'm not an attorney.

Secondly, NCAA offenses. This is much more likely it would appear to me. How many people go around handing $1500 to young people who are not working and have no regular income?

Like I said, I don't see anything coming from this prior to September 2, if at all. Chief "Buddy" of the MPD (how classic is that?) will likely arrive at nothing conclusive other than where the fish are biting and whether they are biting on leeches or crawlers.
 

auric@heart said:
And how did Dasher make contact with the gentleman? It would seem along way from field and the poker table to the nursing home.

This has booster written all over it. Was there an intermediary between Dasher and the payment.
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I read on the blue raiders zone that a girlfriend of Dasher's worked at the VA and hooked him up with the lender.
 





The legal problems can be hushed up, if everyone involved is satisfied. But hushing it up is risky for the school, it could blow up in their faces if it didn't work.

This ought to raise a lot of red flags with the NCAA. It would be a very suspicious gift, and a very suspicious loan. Using "excess" scholarship money looks like a gift to him from the school.
 

I read that he also is being looked at for having stolen 2 blank checks from a teammate used as collateral for the loan. This is theft, elderly abuse, and fraud. These warrant criminal charges, unless the 80 year old is competent and is telling them of free will that he is ok with it.

The teamate whom he stole the checks from, prosecute that as well.

But more importantly $1,000 gambling losses and a questionable payback scheme should be a red flag for the NCAA.
 

tds2n said:
the old man basically just came right out and said he was a loan shark:

http://www.dnj.com/article/20100823...=0KeLCmfqMT8EwxhLSHIVdZRYBjQvo6eLU/ZlYIkPUH4=
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Of course it would be better for the Gophers if they didn't have their starting QB, but I'm going to side with Dasher on this. There are some real issues:

1) You do not call the police to report that someone didn't pay you back. You go to Small Claims Court.
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2) I know for a fact, there is enough residual in scholorship money to pay back a $1,500 debt over time.
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3) The 80 year old guy couldn't even remember the Consulting Firms name - how is he going to remember enough details to make a charge "stick". My wife says I don't remember what she told me yesterday (and I'm not 80).
.

One thing I will say against Dasher: not paying a team-mate back is very stupid. These are the guys that can make you look real good or real bad. This will travel around the locker room and pretty soon that star quarterback doesn't shine so brightly.
 



Apparently, I just heard, the old man claims that he interviewed about this situation with a Kansas City Consulting Firm. That's how it all "leaked."To be honest, I officially think the old man is lying. MT Football volunteers at the VA and there are many senile elders that have dimentia, alzheimer's, etc. The man could just have these issues. I dont think it will amount to much if anything.
 

No kidding

dance4raiders said:
Apparently, I just heard, the old man claims that he interviewed about this situation with a Kansas City Consulting Firm. That's how it all "leaked."To be honest, I officially think the old man is lying. MT Football volunteers at the VA and there are many senile elders that have dimentia, alzheimer's, etc. The man could just have these issues. I dont think it will amount to much if anything.
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It's becoming abundantly clear just WHY the football team volunteers at the VA. How much easier are you going to come about large sums of cash than from "senile elders that have dimentia, alzheimer's, etc"? It makes perfect sense, or at least maybe in TN.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
It's becoming abundantly clear just WHY the football team volunteers at the VA. How much easier are you going to come about large sums of cash than from "senile elders that have dimentia, alzheimer's, etc"? It makes perfect sense, or at least maybe in TN.
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Senile old man, in his own words: " I had loaned Dasher money for poker, so that he would split the winnings with me."

He said they'd done it before and often dasher would win and split the winning, but this time he didn't pay him back in time. He didn't want to be a snitch, but contacted campus police to pressure dasher into paying him back (an ultimatum)

Senile old loan shark, who says he was very much into the Poker scene and had a reputation for giving laons.

Also, it just came out on the radio that Dasher had written void on Boss's checks, so apparently that matter has been squashed.
 

Void being written on a check doesn't necessarily make things go away. Someone else could have written VOID on the check in an effort to make things look better. Secondly, just because a check was voided doesn't make everything OK: there's a lot of data on a check that can be used to extract money from someone's account, such as the account number. And how demented would the old man have to be to consider a voided check to be collateral?

The high stakes gambling alone should set off red flags with the NCAA.
 

Good stuff for a Monday

tds2n said:
Senile old man, in his own words: " I had loaned Dasher money for poker, so that he would split the winnings with me."

He said they'd done it before and often dasher would win and split the winning, but this time he didn't pay him back in time. He didn't want to be a snitch, but contacted campus police to pressure dasher into paying him back (an ultimatum)

Senile old loan shark, who says he was very much into the Poker scene and had a reputation for giving laons.

Also, it just came out on the radio that Dasher had written void on Boss's checks, so apparently that matter has been squashed.[/QUOTE]

Wow. This is the most entertaining stuff I've read in a while. These Raider fans are classic...

I'm sure the fact that Dasher wrote "Void" on his teammate's stolen checks makes Boss feel a lot better, much less violated.

You seem convinced that the character and background of the gentleman who gave the loan is a major factor, and one that favors Dasher in this instance.

Have you considered the possibility that if Donnell is a loan shark that this makes it much WORSE?! Your star starting QB is a known gambler who associates ROUTINELY with people of this ilk. He's a guy that routinely gets into high stakes poker games. Ever heard of Art Schlicter?

I think in the eyes of the NCAA, they may likely be less suspicious if the loan had come from a more reputable source.

Again, take the loan and "loan shark" out of the equation. This dirtbag stole checks from his teammate, regardless of whether or not they were cashed. That's not enough for you? You can't seriously be still defending this course of actions? Really? Can you?

This much I can tell you. Those that don't think this is a big deal have WITHOUT QUESTION never been around somebody who has a serious gambling problem. It's one of the scariest things you've ever seen. In some ways, alcoholism and drug addiction pale in comparison. Gambling addicts are usually more intelligent, more deceitful and more manipulative than a substance addict. Stealing checks from a teammate is just scratching the surface of what he's capable of and if he walks away from this, it's only going to hurt HIM in the long run.

But if it makes you feel better, keep towing that line... this is all just nothing, being blown out of proportion
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Ogee Oglethorpe said:
tds2n said:
Senile old man, in his own words: " I had loaned Dasher money for poker, so that he would split the winnings with me."

He said they'd done it before and often dasher would win and split the winning, but this time he didn't pay him back in time. He didn't want to be a snitch, but contacted campus police to pressure dasher into paying him back (an ultimatum)

Senile old loan shark, who says he was very much into the Poker scene and had a reputation for giving laons.

Also, it just came out on the radio that Dasher had written void on Boss's checks, so apparently that matter has been squashed.[/QUOTE]

Wow. This is the most entertaining stuff I've read in a while. These Raider fans are classic...

I'm sure the fact that Dasher wrote "Void" on his teammate's stolen checks makes Boss feel a lot better, much less violated.

You seem convinced that the character and background of the gentleman who gave the loan is a major factor, and one that favors Dasher in this instance.

Have you considered the possibility that if Donnell is a loan shark that this makes it much WORSE?! Your star starting QB is a known gambler who associates ROUTINELY with people of this ilk. He's a guy that routinely gets into high stakes poker games. Ever heard of Art Schlicter?

I think in the eyes of the NCAA, they may likely be less suspicious if the loan had come from a more reputable source.

Again, take the loan and "loan shark" out of the equation. This dirtbag stole checks from his teammate, regardless of whether or not they were cashed. That's not enough for you? You can't seriously be still defending this course of actions? Really? Can you?

This much I can tell you. Those that don't think this is a big deal have WITHOUT QUESTION never been around somebody who has a serious gambling problem. It's one of the scariest things you've ever seen. In some ways, alcoholism and drug addiction pale in comparison. Gambling addicts are usually more intelligent, more deceitful and more manipulative than a substance addict. Stealing checks from a teammate is just scratching the surface of what he's capable of and if he walks away from this, it's only going to hurt HIM in the long run.

But if it makes you feel better, keep towing that line... this is all just nothing, being blown out of proportion
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Yeah, i get it. You really, really don't want MN to have to face dasher, and possibly go 2 - 10.

I brought that up because first your main issue was the "innocent old man" Though he just came out in an article and basically completely refuted his innocence.

No, that's not good that DD got into a panic and took Boss' checks, BUT did he do anything criminal - no.

Did he walk as humanly close to the line as possible, YES.

I agree, the more serious issue now is the NCAA investigations. Nothing wrong with the poker games, but they will attempt to look into if they can find any concrete PROOF that he may have bet on games.
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No, that's not good that DD got into a panic and took Boss' checks, BUT did he do anything criminal no.

Did he walk as humanly close to the line as possible, YES.
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Taking someone's check is in fact criminal. It is over the line. The fact that they can get this to go away by smoothing it over with Boss doesn't mean the line wasn't crossed.

I agree, the more serious issue now is the NCAA investigations. Nothing wrong with the poker games, but they will attempt to look into if they can find any concrete PROOF that he may have bet on games.
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Gambling on games is just about the most serious offense imaginable. It's not a minimum standard. I don't think the NCAA agrees that there is nothing wrong with high stakes poker games.
 

I don't think it's that they smoothed it over with boss. Once a crime has been reported it's not up to the victim to press the charges, though most people believe that. I did too, until i just heard differently from a lawyer. Apparently it's up to the DA if any charge will be brought. What got him out of it seems to be that he had written void on the checks.
 

Almost speechless...

tds2n said:
Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Yeah, i get it. Yo really, really don't want MN to have to face dasher, and possibly go 2 - 10.

I brought that up because first your main issue was the "innocent old man" Though he just came out in an article and basically completely refuted his innocence.

No, that's not good that DD got into a panic and took Boss' checks, BUT did he do anything criminal no.

Did he walk as humanly close to the line as possible, YES.

I agree, the more serious issue now is the NCAA investigations. Nothing wrong with the poker games, but they will attempt to look into if they can find any concrete PROOF that he may have bet on games.
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Wow. At first I thought you were just playing devil's advocate but you really are this dense, aren't you?

Gambling is illegal, Einstein. "Nothing wrong with the poker games"? This doesn't have anything to do with betting on games. Nobody is saying he bet on games. He's an NCAA athlete with a f'n gambling addiction. What about that do you not get? if you think the NCAA only cares if he bet on games, you REALLY don't have a clue.

You really don't know anything about gambling and the addiction, I get that. I hope you never have to see it first hand. I admit that I didn't know until I saw it first hand myself. One of the most frightening things I've ever seen.

The old man refuted his innocence? How did he do that? I didn't know that he ever had to PROVE his innocence. Who alleged he did anything wrong? And if he did do anything wrong, you're saying he would risk getting his own tail in trouble just to throw some light on Dasher for a measley $1500? You have to honestly be trying to maintain this stance.

There's a reason the NCAA takes gambling, any gambling, as serious as it does. When you grow up, you'll learn some of these things
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Ogee Oglethorpe said:
tds2n said:
Wow. At first I thought you were just playing devil's advocate but you really are this dense, aren't you?

Gambling is illegal, Einstein. "Nothing wrong with the poker games"? This doesn't have anything to do with betting on games. Nobody is saying he bet on games. He's an NCAA athlete with a f'n gambling addiction. What about that do you not get? if you think the NCAA only cares if he bet on games, you REALLY don't have a clue.

You really don't know anything about gambling and the addiction, I get that. I hope you never have to see it first hand. I admit that I didn't know until I saw it first hand myself. One of the most frightening things I've ever seen.

The old man refuted his innocence? How did he do that? I didn't know that he ever had to PROVE his innocence. Who alleged he did anything wrong? And if he did do anything wrong, you're saying he would risk getting his own tail in trouble just to throw some light on Dasher for a measley $1500? You have to honestly be trying to maintain this stance.

There's a reason the NCAA takes gambling, any gambling, as serious as it does. When you grow up, you'll learn some of these things
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You're right. the poor old man had no idea what he money was for. and this whole situation was new to him: (sarcasm)

http://www.dnj.com/article/20100823...nsulting-firm-for-Dasher-inquiry-says-Donnell

in fact, he said HE PUT DASHER IN THE POKER GAMES!!!!

yes, the situation is very shady. I understand you've had someone close to you damage their life with gambling. I'm sorry.

Hopefully this will wake up dasher.

But from the facts being reported now, the only thing that could legally stick is playing poker at an increment of $300.00 a game.

I know I myself have played many games of texas hold em' in college. Maybe not 300 a setting, but $100.00 to $150.00 games could be found at just about any college apartment complex..

I know no one on this board has ever bet on anything . I'm sure..

As you say it's such a serious problem. Maybe you should advocate against ESPN, Fox, and the world poker tournament from glamorizing it and throwing it in out face with all of these rags to riches stories..
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Look, this whole things smells fishy, but this is Middle Tennesee we're talking about. If we need thier QB to be out to win,we have bigger problems. I could understand the hype over this if it was Ricky Stanzi or Bucky, but it's not. If MTSU wants to win the Sun Belt so bad they'll cover thier eyes and ignore this, that's thier problem.

And who here thinks Joel Maturi would let Adam Weber play if this situation was reversed? Even ole Joel wouldn't need to dither too long on this one. The only question would be if he'd suspend him for the whole season right now, or only game-by-game.
 

"Let's just go ahead and write VOID on that check, and make this situation go away..." He offered a void check as collateral? There is a difference between what IS charged and what COULD BE charged. Could be that nobody wants trouble for the star QB.

And using scholarship money to pay off gambling debts?

I'm not saying I don't want standards for the University of Minnesota. I'd just like the same standards to have to apply to everyone else too. This would be an enourmous scandal here.
 


Playing cards for money is not illegal. Having a "house" profit from that game is.
 

I'm ashamed

tds2n said:
Ogee Oglethorpe said:
yes, the situation is very shady. I understand you've had someone close to you damage their life with gambling. I'm sorry.

Hopefully this will wake up dasher.

But from the facts being reported now, the only thing that could legally stick is playing poker at an increment of $300.00 a game.

..
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I'm ashamed for continuing this banter but a few things still stick out.

I noticed you've never addressed the stealing of a teammates checks. At most, you mentioned that they were "voided", but never addressed what to most is a despicable act; stealing from a teammate.

You mention "legally stick", things of that nature. I reiterate, there are two very different things in play here; what is "LEGAL", that he could be charged with, and then there is what the NCAA determines to be a violation, something for which he could be suspended and/or completely have his eligibility revoked.

I haven't heard too many on here (for Gopher fans) who are saying Dasher did anything that will definitely land him in jail. As far as actions the NCAA would frown upon, I think you could take your pick.

The bottom line is, fair or unfair, this will have little to no bearing on this game, other than a minor distraction. MTSU is a relatively insignificant institution in regards to the NCAA, no doubt winning football games with the small window while having a talent like Dasher is ultimately important. I'd be shocked if Dasher did not play in this game.

I also happen to think it won't affect the outcome. I was confident that the Gophers would win long before this ever came to light and this hasn't changed that.

Lastly, if MTSU is really all they think they are, shouldn't they be almost embarassed if they only beat the Gophers by 2-4 points? An alleged bottom feeder in the Big Ten, playing on their home field? And they're treating this like it's the Super Bowl?
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Unregistered User said:
Playing cards for money is not illegal. Having a "house" profit from that game is.
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Even better news. honestly from all the talk around here. It seems like he's legally clear. The check thing is shady as hell, and i'm sure he lost a ton of respect from teammates. Rightfully so.

the main thing is if the NCAA can get off their ass and make a decision.

I don't think it's like the super bowl. In fact, lowly Memphis drew more hype than this game..

You shouldn't call your team a bottom feeder. No one likes a fair weather fan..
 

Legally speaking gambling (in the manner we are discussing) is not illegal.

What the NCAA does about it is another matter entirely. Also, with the "speed" that the NCAA works, the only people who may suffer from this are the members on next years squad. Dasher is a senior, correct? I could look it up, but I'm not going to. The fallout may not be felt until after some manner of investigation, and that theoretically could be 2 to 18 months out.
 

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