Coyle's miscalculations as I see them

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It seem like recruiting, particularly in state recruiting was the impetus for hiring Ben Johnson. Supposedly Ben has good relationships with both high school and AAU coaches in the state. The issue is that Ben has those relationships as an assistant coach. The bar for Ben has changed now that he’s the head coach. He’s now the youngest, least accomplished coach in the Big Ten and possibly in all of the power 5 conferences. When the recruit and mom and dad (or coaches, guardians, parents, etc) meet Ben, what does he have to sell them? He’s a first year head coach. “Ok, so he’s inexperienced that’s a concern, but I am sure he’s worked for someone impressive”. He’s not worked for any big time coaches and the staffs he’s been on have been to 1 NCAA tournament in the last 8 years. “Ok, but my main focus is the NBA, can he get me/my son there?” He’s recruited one NBA 2nd round draft pick to Minnesota and another player that got a 2 way contract. Throw in the fact that he’s taking over a program that has been through the worst stretch in its history and there’s not much for Ben to sell.

From a fan standpoint, I think Coyle got the frustration with losing out on in state kids right, but missed the part that it is a secondary frustration to losing. If Minnesota was finishing ahead of Wisconsin in the standings regularly, you might hear some complaints about the in state recruiting, but they’d be made while people actually were invested in the program (attendance, TV ratings, donations, etc). The annoyance is first with the record and then the fact that Wisconsin is outperforming Minnesota with a lot of the B/C type recruits from Minnesota on their roster. Now if Ben keeps those kids home, he’s not winning unless he’s a Gard or Ryan level coach. The average Wisconsin roster coached by a bottom tier Big Ten coach is going to be playing on the first day of the Big Ten tournament every year. Fans are going to be unhappy with a roster of 50% or more of Minnesotan’s if they are winning 40% of their Big Ten games.

The important thing was to hire a coach who had won previously and that you had confidence would win at Minnesota quickly for a suffering fan base that just spent 8 years with the worst coach in its history. This isn’t a fan base that has a desire to be patient with someone who might learn on the job and might be good in X number of years. Jeff Goodman had a note that Coyle also interviewed Ronald Nored a former player at Butler that is now an assistant with Charlotte in the NBA. Nored is 31 years old. It’s pretty clear that Ben wasn’t the only candidate Coyle looked at that fit the “project” label. The fact that Coyle is paying Ben ~2 million plus incentives also shows that he didn’t pass on the proven mid major guys for monetary reasons, he simply preferred the young up and comer type.

It’s now going to be public knowledge that Ben just recently interviewed for, and didn’t get, the Northern Illinois job. That is a horrible look for the Minnesota program and a horrible look for Coyle. That’s just yet another hurdle for a program that needed a jolt in a positive direction after years of poor management.

It should go without saying that none of this is Ben Johnson’s fault, but I’ll type it out to be clear.

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It seem like recruiting, particularly in state recruiting was the impetus for hiring Ben Johnson. Supposedly Ben has good relationships with both high school and AAU coaches in the state. The issue is that Ben has those relationships as an assistant coach. The bar for Ben has changed now that he’s the head coach. He’s now the youngest, least accomplished coach in the Big Ten and possibly in all of the power 5 conferences. When the recruit and mom and dad (or coaches, guardians, parents, etc) meet Ben, what does he have to sell them? He’s a first year head coach. “Ok, so he’s inexperienced that’s a concern, but I am sure he’s worked for someone impressive”. He’s not worked for any big time coaches and the staffs he’s been on have been to 1 NCAA tournament in the last 8 years. “Ok, but my main focus is the NBA, can he get me/my son there?” He’s recruited one NBA 2nd round draft pick to Minnesota and another player that got a 2 way contract. Throw in the fact that he’s taking over a program that has been through the worst stretch in its history and there’s not much for Ben to sell.

From a fan standpoint, I think Coyle got the frustration with losing out on in state kids right, but missed the part that it is a secondary frustration to losing. If Minnesota was finishing ahead of Wisconsin in the standings regularly, you might here some complaints about the in state recruiting, but they’d be made while people actually were invested in the program (attendance, TV ratings, donations, etc). The annoyance is first with the record and then the fact that Wisconsin is outperforming Minnesota with a lot of the B/C type recruits from Minnesota on their roster. Now if Ben keeps those kids home, he’s not winning unless he’s a Gard or Ryan level coach. The average Wisconsin roster coached by a bottom tier Big Ten coach is going to be playing on the first day of the Big Ten tournament every year. Fans are going to be unhappy with a roster of 50% or more of Minnesotan’s if they are winning 40% of their Big Ten games.

The important thing was to hire a coach who had won previously and that you had confidence would win at Minnesota quickly for a suffering fan base that just spent 8 years with the worst coach in its history. This isn’t a fan base that has a desire to be patient with someone who might learn on the job and might be good in X number of years. Jeff Goodman had a note that Coyle also interviewed Ronald Nored a former player at Baylor that is now an assistant with Charlotte in the NBA. Nored is 31 years old. It’s pretty clear that Ben wasn’t the only candidate Coyle looked at that fit the “project” label. The fact that Coyle is paying Ben ~2 million plus incentives also shows that he didn’t pass on the proven mid major guys for monetary reasons, he simply preferred the young up and comer type.

It’s now going to be public knowledge that Ben just recently interviewed for, and didn’t get, the Northern Illinois job. That is a horrible look for the Minnesota program and a horrible look for Coyle. That’s just yet another hurdle for a program that needed a jolt in a positive direction after years of poor management.

It should go without saying that none of this is Ben Johnson’s fault, but I’ll type it out to be clear.

}�����Ώ
Selling tickets will be impossible if the first year is a failure....At least with an established coach fans could have bought into it for a couple years.
 





Ben seems like a nice guy. He seems smart. That’s good, but the nice guy part?
Is Beard a nice guy? Underwood? Izzo? Cronin? Coach K? Huggins? Boeheim? Popavich?
My point...lots of successful coaches are jerks. Very demanding. My way or see ya.
Nice, quiet can work but it’s harder and early success seems important if it is your style. And also under the circumstances it seems unlikely.
Ben isn’t even sure what his way is. Pitino after learning from Rick and Billy said he learned a lot just this past season. Ben has a long journey.
 

It seem like recruiting, particularly in state recruiting was the impetus for hiring Ben Johnson. Supposedly Ben has good relationships with both high school and AAU coaches in the state. The issue is that Ben has those relationships as an assistant coach. The bar for Ben has changed now that he’s the head coach. He’s now the youngest, least accomplished coach in the Big Ten and possibly in all of the power 5 conferences. When the recruit and mom and dad (or coaches, guardians, parents, etc) meet Ben, what does he have to sell them? He’s a first year head coach. “Ok, so he’s inexperienced that’s a concern, but I am sure he’s worked for someone impressive”. He’s not worked for any big time coaches and the staffs he’s been on have been to 1 NCAA tournament in the last 8 years. “Ok, but my main focus is the NBA, can he get me/my son there?” He’s recruited one NBA 2nd round draft pick to Minnesota and another player that got a 2 way contract. Throw in the fact that he’s taking over a program that has been through the worst stretch in its history and there’s not much for Ben to sell.

From a fan standpoint, I think Coyle got the frustration with losing out on in state kids right, but missed the part that it is a secondary frustration to losing. If Minnesota was finishing ahead of Wisconsin in the standings regularly, you might hear some complaints about the in state recruiting, but they’d be made while people actually were invested in the program (attendance, TV ratings, donations, etc). The annoyance is first with the record and then the fact that Wisconsin is outperforming Minnesota with a lot of the B/C type recruits from Minnesota on their roster. Now if Ben keeps those kids home, he’s not winning unless he’s a Gard or Ryan level coach. The average Wisconsin roster coached by a bottom tier Big Ten coach is going to be playing on the first day of the Big Ten tournament every year. Fans are going to be unhappy with a roster of 50% or more of Minnesotan’s if they are winning 40% of their Big Ten games.

The important thing was to hire a coach who had won previously and that you had confidence would win at Minnesota quickly for a suffering fan base that just spent 8 years with the worst coach in its history. This isn’t a fan base that has a desire to be patient with someone who might learn on the job and might be good in X number of years. Jeff Goodman had a note that Coyle also interviewed Ronald Nored a former player at Butler that is now an assistant with Charlotte in the NBA. Nored is 31 years old. It’s pretty clear that Ben wasn’t the only candidate Coyle looked at that fit the “project” label. The fact that Coyle is paying Ben ~2 million plus incentives also shows that he didn’t pass on the proven mid major guys for monetary reasons, he simply preferred the young up and comer type.

It’s now going to be public knowledge that Ben just recently interviewed for, and didn’t get, the Northern Illinois job. That is a horrible look for the Minnesota program and a horrible look for Coyle. That’s just yet another hurdle for a program that needed a jolt in a positive direction after years of poor management.

It should go without saying that none of this is Ben Johnson’s fault, but I’ll type it out to be clear.

}�����Ώ
Well stated.

Coyle has now cemented the program as "learning-on-the-job university." Same thing he's doing on the women's side with Whalen.

In other words, expect more of the "be patient" crap both tomorrow in coming years that this fanbase has been force-fed for decades on-end.
 

I think game coaching was worse than recruiting under Pitino, which is why this is confounding. If I had been hiring in-game coaching would have been #1.
John Wooden could be handling the in game coaching and you will not win a game without the talent on the floor. You need both and also some depth on the bench. Yes I know this is stating the obvious...
 

Well stated.

Coyle has now cemented the program as "learning-on-the-job university." Same thing he's doing on the women's side with Whalen.

In other words, expect more of the "be patient" crap both tomorrow in coming years that this fanbase has been force-fed for decades on-end.
Whalen will leave the program in two years if they still suck...She has too much pride to get her ass kicked every season.
 



The reality:

It is basically impossible for the average fan to weigh in on the hire from a background perspective. What can people actually judge? Ben is not a really big name in MN sports and was an assistant coach. People have to trust Coyle, which is obviously tough.

The AD should do Ben a favor and get out in front to extol his virtues as a hire. It is Coyle's job to protect his hire and have some foresight into what fans may think. It is unfair to the person you hired to get excoriated by the fan base. Protect your coach Mark.
 

I see this as an athletic program that does not have donor support. Do you think a school with tradition would make a similar hire? No. Do you think a school that is serious about competing for titles makes this hire? No. Nobody with deep pockets is knocking on Coyles door demanding he hire a top notch coach.
 

Ben seems like a nice guy. He seems smart. That’s good, but the nice guy part?
Is Beard a nice guy? Underwood? Izzo? Cronin? Coach K? Huggins? Boeheim? Popavich?
My point...lots of successful coaches are jerks. Very demanding. My way or see ya.
Nice, quiet can work but it’s harder and early success seems important if it is your style. And also under the circumstances it seems unlikely.
Ben isn’t even sure what his way is. Pitino after learning from Rick and Billy said he learned a lot just this past season. Ben has a long journey.
Well put. Agreed totally.
 

I see this as an athletic program that does not have donor support. Do you think a school with tradition would make a similar hire? No. Do you think a school that is serious about competing for titles makes this hire? No. Nobody with deep pockets is knocking on Coyles door demanding he hire a top notch coach.

Agreed. I should hire Ben's agent. Can't believe he got 1.9 mil
 



Coyle hires Fleck - Fans say "A great Hire. What a decisive move by the AD to sign the hottest young coach on the market."

Coyle hires Ben Johnson. Fans say "what a terrible hire. What the Bleep is Coyle thinking?"

Same AD. Same process (no search firm).

If you think Coyle hit a home run with Fleck, why are fans so quick to dismiss his hiring of Johnson?
 

Ben seems like a nice guy. He seems smart. That’s good, but the nice guy part?
Is Beard a nice guy? Underwood? Izzo? Cronin? Coach K? Huggins? Boeheim? Popavich?
My point...lots of successful coaches are jerks. Very demanding. My way or see ya.
Nice, quiet can work but it’s harder and early success seems important if it is your style. And also under the circumstances it seems unlikely.
Ben isn’t even sure what his way is. Pitino after learning from Rick and Billy said he learned a lot just this past season. Ben has a long journey.
Don't know much about Johnson... someone must have seen him run a practice or two. Assistants do that all of the time when the coach is sick or has other commitments. Where does the nice guy label come from? I saw Johnson fired up on the sidelines so it's not like he's on the bench doing yoga during games.
 

Coyle hires Fleck - Fans say "A great Hire. What a decisive move by the AD to sign the hottest young coach on the market."

Coyle hires Ben Johnson. Fans say "what a terrible hire. What the Bleep is Coyle thinking?"

Same AD. Same process (no search firm).

If you think Coyle hit a home run with Fleck, why are fans so quick to dismiss his hiring of Johnson?
Fleck had done it and won big. Johnson has not. The reaction is correct. That doesn't mean that Johnson can't succeed. He can and maybe he will. Go for it Ben. Opportunity of a lifetime!
 

Coyle hires Fleck - Fans say "A great Hire. What a decisive move by the AD to sign the hottest young coach on the market."

Coyle hires Ben Johnson. Fans say "what a terrible hire. What the Bleep is Coyle thinking?"

Same AD. Same process (no search firm).

If you think Coyle hit a home run with Fleck, why are fans so quick to dismiss his hiring of Johnson?

My response is not critical of Johnson, but that may be one of the worst analogies I've seen in a long time.

Fleck was "THE" hot up-and-coming college football hire with a national brand and a huge personality.

I hope Johnson can turn the Gopher program around like Fleck did.

Go Gophers!!
 

Coyle hires Fleck - Fans say "A great Hire. What a decisive move by the AD to sign the hottest young coach on the market."

Coyle hires Ben Johnson. Fans say "what a terrible hire. What the Bleep is Coyle thinking?"

Same AD. Same process (no search firm).

If you think Coyle hit a home run with Fleck, why are fans so quick to dismiss his hiring of Johnson?
Um fleck had just take his school to THE COTTON BOWL!

That's at least the eqivalent to the sweet 16
 

Coyle hires Fleck - Fans say "A great Hire. What a decisive move by the AD to sign the hottest young coach on the market."

Coyle hires Ben Johnson. Fans say "what a terrible hire. What the Bleep is Coyle thinking?"

Same AD. Same process (no search firm).

If you think Coyle hit a home run with Fleck, why are fans so quick to dismiss his hiring of Johnson?
Fleck turned Western Michigan around from 1-11 to 13-1 and a New Year's Six bowl in just four years. That is demonstrable evidence of a head coach whose career was on a sharp, upward trajectory. Johnson hasn't done anything remotely close to that. Johnson hasn't done shit, that's why fans are so quick to dismiss his hiring.
 

I wrote this somewhere else, but a couple points. I didn't like the news earlier today because of the inexperience. I wanted Gates.


But regardless:

1. Look at how the Big Ten has filled it's coaching spots with experienced coaches over the last 20 years. Most Big Ten hires are rehired. None of them have won a NCAA title since Izzo, and many have gotten fired. (Look at Indiana) who bets on the very best candidates time and time again. Maybe not hiring hot head coach from a Major or Mid-major is the way to go.

2. The Big Ten has been sucking in the NCAA's with these coaches. They are having their teams get run around by hires like Nate Oats and Porter Moser. Rather than trying to hire the next Porter Moser, maybe you can find the next one.

3. If Ben can recruit, great. We have to assume Coyle knows more about what this means for the U. Let's let Ben get to coaching a game first before we get too out of hand. Transfer market is wide open and Xavier has three guys already in the portal.

Hiring the next Thad Matta, John Beilein, Tom Crean, and Archie Miller hasn't worked so far. Maybe a fresh approach is needed in the Big Ten. Sure, Pitino didn't work, but maybe this guy recruits better and maybe he can teach kids to make a few three pointers (or pass it if they can't hit three pointers).
 

Agreed. I should hire Ben's agent. Can't believe he got 1.9 mil
This was done for perception. This is the guy we wanted...he's worth it! Good for Ben!

But it is still insane to pay him that much. Certainly could have saved a ton of that and given him rewards as he proved it.
 

I think game coaching was worse than recruiting under Pitino, which is why this is confounding. If I had been hiring in-game coaching would have been #1.
I've been defending the hire throughout the day mainly because I want to have more of a "wait and see" mindset. But your take is one I 100% agree with. Coyle's goal seems to be to lockdown the border with all of the in-state talent. That's great, but unless we're getting every 5* that comes along (spoiler: we won't), you need some semblance of in-game coaching to win consistently in the B1G and go deep in March. Pitino's teams had plenty of talent to compete near the top of the league. This year especially, I felt like we had the pieces to make a good run. But coaching always fell short for him. 4 minute+ scoring droughts, collapsing against the zone and press, very few set plays, it all added up. I was really hoping we'd get a coach with a defined brand of basketball.

Alas, we wait and see.
 

Again - my point is about Coyle.

People are questioning Coyle's judgement when it comes to Johnson.
But they loved Coyle's choice of Fleck.
Same AD. Same process.
Did Coyle suddenly become stupid?

If you thought Coyle was a good AD for hiring Fleck, did he suddenly become a bad AD?

Bottom line - the Gophers finished 13th out of 14 teams in the B1G last year. Could it really get that much worse?

It's not like the Gophers won a B1G title last year, and just hired an unproven coach. The Gophers are coming off a bad year, and hired an unproven coach.

Let's see what happens. If Johnson signs a couple of top in-state recruits, a lot of the people on here bashing the move will be changing their tune.
 

Coyle hires Fleck - Fans say "A great Hire. What a decisive move by the AD to sign the hottest young coach on the market."

Coyle hires Ben Johnson. Fans say "what a terrible hire. What the Bleep is Coyle thinking?"

Same AD. Same process (no search firm).

If you think Coyle hit a home run with Fleck, why are fans so quick to dismiss his hiring of Johnson?
Fleck had gone 12-0 at Western Michigan before as a head coach. What the U needs to realize is that they should be hiring similar level schools assistant coaches or lower level school head coaches with a track record of success.

They did the same thing with President Gabel, an assistant President from a lower university, and now Coyle is doing it now.
 

Fleck had gone 12-0 at Western Michigan before as a head coach. What the U needs to realize is that they should be hiring similar level schools assistant coaches or lower level school head coaches with a track record of success.

They did the same thing with President Gabel, an assistant President from a lower university, and now Coyle is doing it now.
Exactly....Comparing the Fleck hire and Johnson hire is apples and oranges....I'm shocked that Coyle would put his job on the line for a complete wild card that could spectacularly blown up in his face.
 

Coyle is somewhat putting his own butt on line with this hire. Remember this, if the program bleeds money or loses the fan base Coyle will walk or be canned. He rolled the dice, but he must see something in Ben, that is not so obvious on paper or resume. I have said this before, I like smart coaches and taking chances. What have we got to lose, we have been stuck in the muck since Clem decided to trade in his integrity and cheat.
 

I doubt Coyle is in trouble if Ben fails. This hire had some coaxing from administration and the media.

This is more a hire to keep his job IMO
 

Few thoughts. Someone compared Johnson to Whalen. While yes in terms of coaching they are technically equal, I would argue Whalen is one of the best female basketball players ever. She not only played at the highest level but played under coaches like Geno, Reeve Etc. That counts for something in terms of coaching.

Next, I have continued to say I am underwhelmed but we also don't know the other conversations Coyle had. Maybe D1MN, Grassroots, Pulley etc all told him in no uncertain terms Johnson was they key that would unlock the local treasure chest of talent. But it is no doubt a giant risk and it's more than possible that Coyle may not have to fire Johnson because if this is a huge flop he might get the ax first. We have no choice to hope this works for at least the next few years so let's do this Ben!
 

It seem like recruiting, particularly in state recruiting was the impetus for hiring Ben Johnson. Supposedly Ben has good relationships with both high school and AAU coaches in the state. The issue is that Ben has those relationships as an assistant coach. The bar for Ben has changed now that he’s the head coach. He’s now the youngest, least accomplished coach in the Big Ten and possibly in all of the power 5 conferences. When the recruit and mom and dad (or coaches, guardians, parents, etc) meet Ben, what does he have to sell them? He’s a first year head coach. “Ok, so he’s inexperienced that’s a concern, but I am sure he’s worked for someone impressive”. He’s not worked for any big time coaches and the staffs he’s been on have been to 1 NCAA tournament in the last 8 years. “Ok, but my main focus is the NBA, can he get me/my son there?” He’s recruited one NBA 2nd round draft pick to Minnesota and another player that got a 2 way contract. Throw in the fact that he’s taking over a program that has been through the worst stretch in its history and there’s not much for Ben to sell.

From a fan standpoint, I think Coyle got the frustration with losing out on in state kids right, but missed the part that it is a secondary frustration to losing. If Minnesota was finishing ahead of Wisconsin in the standings regularly, you might hear some complaints about the in state recruiting, but they’d be made while people actually were invested in the program (attendance, TV ratings, donations, etc). The annoyance is first with the record and then the fact that Wisconsin is outperforming Minnesota with a lot of the B/C type recruits from Minnesota on their roster. Now if Ben keeps those kids home, he’s not winning unless he’s a Gard or Ryan level coach. The average Wisconsin roster coached by a bottom tier Big Ten coach is going to be playing on the first day of the Big Ten tournament every year. Fans are going to be unhappy with a roster of 50% or more of Minnesotan’s if they are winning 40% of their Big Ten games.

The important thing was to hire a coach who had won previously and that you had confidence would win at Minnesota quickly for a suffering fan base that just spent 8 years with the worst coach in its history. This isn’t a fan base that has a desire to be patient with someone who might learn on the job and might be good in X number of years. Jeff Goodman had a note that Coyle also interviewed Ronald Nored a former player at Butler that is now an assistant with Charlotte in the NBA. Nored is 31 years old. It’s pretty clear that Ben wasn’t the only candidate Coyle looked at that fit the “project” label. The fact that Coyle is paying Ben ~2 million plus incentives also shows that he didn’t pass on the proven mid major guys for monetary reasons, he simply preferred the young up and comer type.

It’s now going to be public knowledge that Ben just recently interviewed for, and didn’t get, the Northern Illinois job. That is a horrible look for the Minnesota program and a horrible look for Coyle. That’s just yet another hurdle for a program that needed a jolt in a positive direction after years of poor management.

It should go without saying that none of this is Ben Johnson’s fault, but I’ll type it out to be clear.

}�����Ώ
Amir Coffey’s father said Ben was the only reason Amir went to the U. Daniel Oturu said Ben was a major reason he wore the Maroon and Gold. Jordan Murphy seemed pretty happy Ben got the job. Imagine the last 8 years without those 3. 3 of the best players this school has seen in the last decade or more?
 

Amir Coffey’s father said Ben was the only reason Amir went to the U. Daniel Oturu said Ben was a major reason he wore the Maroon and Gold. Jordan Murphy seemed pretty happy Ben got the job. Imagine the last 8 years without those 3. 3 of the best players this school has seen in the last decade or more?
I'm sure friends and family would say great things about me after I was hired for a 2 million dollar job also...It doesn't neccesarily make me qualified....Because he is a completely unproven coach his honeymoon period will be very short...I hope Coyle recognizes that.
 




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