Cockran hit: Fair or Foul?

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afurry91 said:
At first, I thought the announcers were stupid for suggesting he be kicked out.

After watching that several times, I'm convinced we caught a bit of a break. It sure looked like targeting to me.
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If anyone wants to watch it again (if you DVR'd it) it's at 11:24 of the 4th.

I watched it a few times and there is very little helmet contact. It's almost all shoulder. It looks bad from certain angles, but there was one angle on ABC that showed it was pretty much all shoulder to chest. Not targeting.
 

Fair hit or Foul?

Word said:
If anyone wants to watch it again (if you DVR'd it) it's at 11:24 of the 4th.

I watched it a few times and there is very little helmet contact. It's almost all shoulder. It looks bad from certain angles, but there was one angle on ABC that showed it was pretty much all shoulder to chest. Not targeting.
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Rule 9-1-4: No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder.

I don't know if it was his head or shoulder that popped him in the neck. But something definitely did in my opinion. That was targeting.
 

afurry91 said:
Rule 9-1-4: No player shall target and initiate contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent with the helmet, forearm, fist, elbow, or shoulder.

I don't know if it was his head or shoulder that popped him in the neck. But something definitely did in my opinion. That was targeting.
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It was shoulder to chest and his head jerked back due to the hit from what I saw on the DVR. Either way we're lucky that he didn't get ejected because if it's that hard for us to decide with the benefit of multiple reviews, it's a tough call for the refs.
 

highwayman said:
You're right, they changed the penalty to "more than two steps" on a valid signal. Strangely, if an invalid signal is given there is no penalty and the ball is dead where caught. Goofy. That might be what happened in the Gopher game.

No Advance
ARTICLE 2. No Team B player shall carry a caught or recovered ball more than two steps in any direction after any Team B player gives a valid or invalid fair
catch signal (A.R. 6-5-2-I-III).
PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. Five yards from the succeeding spot [S7 and S21].

Invalid Signals: Catch or Recovery
ARTICLE 3. a. A catch after an invalid signal is not a fair catch, and the ball is dead where caught or recovered. If the signal follows a catch or recovery, the
ball is dead when the signal is first given (A.R. 6-5-1-I).
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Thx. Good stuff. I was too lazy to track this down, but could not remember the exact rule.
 

Borderline. He certainly deserved the penalty, and was stupid for not backing off, but I wouldn't have kicked him out for it. It's not an obvious helmet to helmet hit.
 


Foul. It wasn't an intentional hit.......but you can't lay hits like that. Probably should have been removed from the game.
 

I think he launched but also believed he led with his shoulder. Morris' head snapped into Cockrans helmet causing the head to head.

i am not 100% sure he shouldn't receive a half game suspension or not but there are many missed calls all the time. I really think the refs saw that the shoulder was what he was hitting with not his helmet and the collision helmet to helmet was not intentional
 

Just a little history, it was the last time we won at Michigan. Brian Cupito was the Gopher QB and he was hit in the first half by Lamar Woodley who drove him to the ground bruising his left shoulder. In the fourth quarter, Woodley again drove Cupito to the ground this time bruising his right shoulder and his head bouncing off the turf. Cupito was pulled from the game, helmet removed, jersey off, pads removed, ice on his shoulder. The Gophers went to Tony Mortenson who managed not to turn it over and we punted. The defense held and we got the ball back. We were facing 3rd and about 6, and the rest is history. Two different programs. Two different ways to handle an injured player.
 

It's possibly that Theiren could still miss the first half against NU if Michigan submits the tape to the Big Ten. I don't think they will however and would be livid if he does end up suspended.
 




The official was watching the entire play. There was no helmet to helmet and a legitimate non call. he lead with his shoulder and was within an acceptable distance. It looked vicious but the late hit on our quarterback 6 yards into the endzone had more potential for injury. Our QB had no idea he was going to get hit. The bottom line is Morris was terrible and should not have been playing even before that hit.
 

According to an article on ESPN's Big Ten blog, Michigan does believe it was targeting and they have submitted the play to the Big Ten for review.
 

Which is worse? A hit that is almost all shoulder to chest or a coach that (in this day and age with all we know about concussions) knowingly leaves a quarterback in a game that just got a concussion?
 



Word said:
Which is worse? A hit that is almost all shoulder to chest or a coach that (in this day and age with all we know about concussions) knowingly leaves a quarterback in a game that just got a concussion?
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I'm sure all Michigan fans agree that they hope this gets submitted, they waive Cochran, and then suspend Hoke indefinitely for putting an injured player in the game
 



stocker08 said:
Honestly? Sore losers.
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Agree with Michigan being sore a loser and looking to come up with an excuse or excuses. Interesting how there wasn't any concern over Wisconsins's head-case Borland when some of his hits were clearly 'targeting' over the past several years.
 

Could of called either thing on this play targeting which is on a QB should been ejected. He also launches himself leading with helmet.
 

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GopherInPittsburgh said:
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Great news. If I was kill I would already be preparing the late hit video on Leidner in the end zone if that actually went through.
 

minibeaver said:
Great news. If I was kill I would already be preparing the late hit video on Leidner in the end zone if that actually went through.
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I didn't have a problem with that hit. Players get shoved a little bit and fall over all the time in the end zone and it wasn't really helmet to helmet or targeting, just a shove. The player might not have been able to stop his own momentum IIRC.
 

die hard gopher said:
I didn't have a problem with that hit. Players get shoved a little bit and fall over all the time in the end zone and it wasn't really helmet to helmet or targeting, just a shove. The player might not have been able to stop his own momentum IIRC.
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Agreed for the most part, but the Leidner hit looked pretty late. I'm just being an ass I guess. But I look at it as tit for tat. If they are gonna submit something as small as that I would do the same.
 

I think it is fair to argue the legality and suspend-ability of TC's hit. No doubt it was a cheap shot tho. I would suspect the coaches have talked with him about letting his emotions get the better of him. It could have been a huge factor in a different game and can't happen again.
 

minibeaver said:
Great news. If I was kill I would already be preparing the late hit video on Leidner in the end zone if that actually went through.
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Absolutely. Leidner was five yards into the end zone when he got hit. This is nothing more than sour grapes.
 

According to a press conf note, Hoke to ask B1G office to review play on QB Morris

Teams are allowed to make this request if they wish. Not sure how the process works and if the office is obligated to review it or not. That said, I personally don't feel it was an ejectionable hit in the first place, as Cockran's helmet appeared to hit him more in the upper, inside part of his shoulder than anything else and didn't look like he took any more than 1 step prior to Morris releasing the ball. Seemed the officials got it right during the game with simply calling a roughing the passer and nothing more.

Any possible concern that some in the office (due to the amount of media using the play and him not taking Morris out as a way to call for Hoke's ouster) buckles under scrutiny and goes all PC and suspends Cockran for the NW game? Going to be pissed if that happens since I personally think it would be complete B.S. when taking into account the actual facts of the play, regardless of Morris seeing some stars for a while.
 


"Brady Hoke demands that the Big Ten Conference review that hit on Morris in the hope that it will take the pressure off himself for not giving a damn whether Morris was hurt or not."

There, that would be a more accurate assessment of the request.
 



I personally thought it was an ejectable hit and it wasn't even close. My opinion though.

As for the review, coaches do that all the time. No reason to read into it.
 

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