Where is Russ Pennell?
Charley Walters: Flip Saunders turning down the Gophers is embarrassing
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Where is Russ Pennell?
Bob_Loblaw
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Please don't compare Dungy to Flip, it's not even in the same galaxy.
station19
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Very well said Coolhand. 99% of people will side with the local boy Flip.
We all know Flip can coach but he hasn't been involved with college basketball for what 25+years? I'm sure Teague would like to have some input on his staff, do what degree hard to tell. We don't need a staff full of nba guys that also haven't be around collge BB.
Judd and Dubay babbling about it now on 1500. Saying Teague doesn't want Flip. Judd saying it appears they don't want Flip and are treating him like crap. One of them said if the only reason Flip wasn't hired was because of Ryan, then Teague should be fired.
These guys are so bad.
We all know Flip can coach but he hasn't been involved with college basketball for what 25+years? I'm sure Teague would like to have some input on his staff, do what degree hard to tell. We don't need a staff full of nba guys that also haven't be around collge BB.
Judd and Dubay babbling about it now on 1500. Saying Teague doesn't want Flip. Judd saying it appears they don't want Flip and are treating him like crap. One of them said if the only reason Flip wasn't hired was because of Ryan, then Teague should be fired.
These guys are so bad.
Bob_Loblaw
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We hire Russ Pennell, and I'm with you in the sky-is-falling crowd! So scoot over and make some room on that bus
Pennell is the coach of Grand Something State, he did go to the NCAA and he replaced Thunder Dan Majerle! So that counts for something, right?
Bob_Loblaw
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I don't think Dubay is thinking really clearly about this. You only get so many coaches and if Ryan Saunders was one of our 3 primary assistant coaches, he would very likely be the LEAST experienced assistant coaches in all of the Big 10.
Judd is clueless and the KFAN guys are clueless. But Dubay should know a little better.
coolhandgopher
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I'm not saying that NT didn't know from Day 1 that Flip wasn't his choice for head coach. If what has been reported is accurate, he thought enough of Flip to interview him and have a conversation with him for the position. It appears that the differences in what each side was willing to compromise upon was not amenable for either NT or Flip.
MNfootballfan
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I'm listening also. Dubay basically said if we hire a head coach that is a much lower caliber than Flip and it is because Flip couldn't have Ryan on his staff that is fireable. If we hire Enfield or another candidate that no one even talked about the day Tubby was fired, I wouldn't disagree with Dubay. I am not saying I am all on board with Dubay, but wouldn't disagree with him.
Dungy's accomplishments are better- without a doubt. However, remember that Saunders is very, very well regarded around here and is part of the golden age of Gopher basketball around here. His Gopher accomplishments were above Dungy's and his local respect is in the same sphere. Therefore the comparison relates to perception. You wish to be a technocrat here- this rule or that rule. At the end of the day- fan perception matters.
Fixed based on probabilility.
Bob_Loblaw
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I'm not being a technocrat, they just are much grossly different scenarios.
Flip is highly regarded in MN, Dungy is highly regarded everywhere. If Dungy wanted an NFL coaching job, the best NFL teams would be interested. The Cowboys would hire him the second he had an opening (he's like a Bill Cowher (spelling).
The Flip stuff is closer to the Brad Childress angle.
UST82Gopher
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I don't post here often, but post frequently at several Twolves sites. I have friends that I played with (in the '80s) working in the NBA who know/have worked for Flip.
From what I have been told, the issue was not really Ryan (there are legitimate concerns but they were not unresolvable) but the #1 chair assistant. Teague wanted to hire Flip's #1 person as a potential "coach in waiting". That spooked Flip just a bit and caused the discussions to end.
The door is not closed. But Teague has moved on to others.
You will never hear Flip say a bad word about Teague or the Gophers. He's a loyalist. He's just not comfortable with the terms as they exist right now.
At least that's what I've heard.
Bob_Loblaw
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If that's the case, Teague is completely out of line. Flip should have the authority to hire his coaching staff, especially his #1 assistant (provided he is qualified).
I'm not a Flip guy, but if Teague wanted to help handpick his #1 assistant, then he botched it. He either wasn't interested in Flip and alienated a big Gopher supporter in Flip or he is a control freak.
Again, that's IF that's the scenario.
coolhandgopher
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Here's where I have an issue with that Beeg-I am going to believe that NT's savvy enough not to bring Flip in for an interview unless he was legitimately looking at him as a candidate. If this was a courtesy interview, I would imagine Flip would be able to identify it as such and it would set things up with both boosters and Flip's media connections as disastrous. I'm not saying that this isn't the case, but I think NT bringing Flip in for an interview for anything less than legitimate consideration is buffoonish and everything I've been lead to believe about NT is that he's quite a bit more polished than his predecessor; okay, that's damning with faint praise, so let's just say that we've been led to believe that NT is a pretty smart and polished guy and the non-hiring of Flip might have demonstrated his stones more so than the firing of Tubby.
50PoundHead
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Bob, I totally disagree. Dungy's deification on these boards borders on the ridiculous. Good coach? Yeah, but I never considered him a great coach. His stubbornness in sticking with Shaun King for a season in Tampa Bay seals the deal for me.
I don't really think bringing Dungy into the conversation here is even relevant (unless Teague called him and asked what he thought, which some on this board--not you Bob--think should be done whenever the U considers doing anything remotely athletically related even though he's done jack-squat for the U since leaving). Of course, Dungy was on the basketball team for part of one season, so maybe he should be the coach. Or maybe Mike Hohensee.
There are two schools of thought that I know of- 1. Teague always figured Flip was a backup plan and after some A list misses (no fault to Teague) he gave Saunders a legitimate offer that he thought was fair. 2. Teague never considered Saunders an option, hated the idea, wanted his own type of guy. He starts out figuring he can get Shaka or somebody else and will never have to worry about Flip. That fails. He then realizes he has to deal with Saunders or face the wrath of the boosters. He give Saunders a deal he knows Saunders cannot accept, accomplishing his mission of getting rid of that issue and allowing him to move to the B list resting on the claim that he tried to get Flip.
I have thought BOTH of these were true at varying times and I have proposed both as possible here. Now I think # 2 is much more likely. Why? If you really wanted to make a deal with Saunders - you know taking control from him of naming any or all of his assistants including his own son is a deal breaker. That makes me think that Teague only wanted to kill it and that the offer never had legitimate intent.
No doubt Teague is a smart and accomlished guy who has hired one very good basketball coach in the past. Obviously he thinks highly of his own credentials and is planning on putting his own mark on the process.
Bob_Loblaw
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Yeah, I think it goes a little over the top. However, Dungy could have his absolute pick of NFL jobs if he wanted to return to coaching. Flip could not. He got fired from one of the worst jobs in pro basketball (I agree that the Washington thing isn't all his fault). But it'd be like comparing Bill Cowher to whoever the last guy who got canned from Oakland. Again, this isn't a rip on Flip because Washington (like Oakland) is an absolute dumpster fire. But Flip's stock nationally, is nowhere near Dungy's.
Not in local popularity and that's what matters here.
Bob_Loblaw
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If Saunders wasn't allowed to pick his #1 assistant, Teague was never interested. If it came down to Ryan Saunders being an assistant coach, I think a lot of rational ADs would have said no (you might disagree with it, but it's not an absurd notion).
Bob_Loblaw
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Even locally, most people thought we could get Flip. Everyone here would have been floored if Dungy even considered this position. So even locally, we understand that Flip is a Childress and Dungy is a . . . Dungy.
Iceland12
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That sounds like a pretty reasonable explanation. It ties in with Teague's Villa 7 connections and from what we've seen, past connections are very important to him, and probably to Flip too. It also makes more sense than the nepotism charges. Though, if Norwood wanted to spin it through his media bobos, making the story about Ryan and nepotism instead of wanting to control the hiring of the Number 1 assistant to continue his mission, was certainly the way to go.
Even the guys who hated the idea of Saunders coaching the Gophers would have had trouble sustaining a thread with 5,000 views based around Teague's right to hire the Coach and his staff. Particularly if it's to get the staff a better job.
Teague either didn't want Flip, very reasonable; was worried about his staff's ability to coach and recruit at the College level, also a good position for an A.D. to take; or Teague wanted a top flight Assistant to continue his dream of furthering a platform to move Assistant Coaches to Head Coaches, that's out of line.
Unless of course Villa 7 is paying part of our all of Norwood's salary. They're not are they?
Station and Gopher-in-Iowa that's why I'm losing faith in Mr.Teague. His short term actions have benefited North Carolina, Tubby and former VCU employees but have only cost the University of Minnesota money.
Like station said, supporting him because he's the A.D. and the sometimes irrational "We NEED Flip" sentiment, are good ideas. Like GiI said, giving him the benefit-of-the-doubt because he's 1 out of 1 in hiring is a good idea too. The problem is, supporting him because he hasn't had time to do anything yet certainly isn't true. He's helped a lot of people so far, just not his employer.
BleedGopher
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Shama none too happy with the Flipper:
Flip’s Silence Doesn’t Help Gophers
Flip Saunders doesn’t want to be the Gophers’ basketball coach but he could still make a major contribution to his alma mater by clearing up the mystery as to why he said no to the University of Minnesota on Saturday.
So far Saunders is saying nothing about walking away from the offer and the result has been a lot of Gopher bashing, starting with athletic director Norwood Teague who is being blamed. But what are the facts?
I know more than I can write today but let’s start with this: Saunders and Teague began negotiating on Friday, and by Saturday afternoon ESPN.com was reporting Saunders had turned down the job. Don’t you think if Saunders really wanted to be the Gophers’ coach he and his agent could have worked on the deal longer than 24 hours?
Come on.
This is the third time Saunders, the former Gophers’ point guard and assistant coach, has been approached by his old school. Athletic director Mark Dienhart was interested in Saunders, then the Timberwolves coach, when Clem Haskins had to be replaced in 1999. Athletic director Joel Maturi had Saunders, then the Pistons coach, on his list in 2007 to possibly replace Dan Monson.
Saunders has many attributes that made him perhaps the best candidate for the Gophers’ job. Enormously popular with the public, Saunders could create a financial jackpot for the Gophers, with impact on season tickets, single game tickets, donations, corporate support and a lot more. After a career as both a college assistant coach and NBA head coach, Saunders has a high basketball IQ and would have improved the Gophers in both practices and games.
But Saunders, 58, may have decided over the weekend that he doesn’t want all of the work involved in rebuilding the Gophers. While the program was a national power when he played in the 1970s, Gophers’ basketball has been in decline for years. Haskins, Monson and Tubby Smith, who was fired last Monday, all have under .500 records in Big Ten games.
Maybe Saunders decided that unlike his close friend Tom Izzo, the Michigan State coach, he doesn’t want to be chasing 17-year-old recruits all over the country. Some guys don’t want to go into every mama’s kitchen and exclaim in front of the family: “This is the best chili I’ve ever eaten!”
After three “courtships” with Saunders, it’s time for Gophers fans to understand this: Dinkytown doesn’t need someone — even a golden boy — to head the program if he doesn’t want the job.
Move on, and have faith in Teague.
http://shamasportsheadliners.com/
Go Gophers!!
Flip’s Silence Doesn’t Help Gophers
Flip Saunders doesn’t want to be the Gophers’ basketball coach but he could still make a major contribution to his alma mater by clearing up the mystery as to why he said no to the University of Minnesota on Saturday.
So far Saunders is saying nothing about walking away from the offer and the result has been a lot of Gopher bashing, starting with athletic director Norwood Teague who is being blamed. But what are the facts?
I know more than I can write today but let’s start with this: Saunders and Teague began negotiating on Friday, and by Saturday afternoon ESPN.com was reporting Saunders had turned down the job. Don’t you think if Saunders really wanted to be the Gophers’ coach he and his agent could have worked on the deal longer than 24 hours?
Come on.
This is the third time Saunders, the former Gophers’ point guard and assistant coach, has been approached by his old school. Athletic director Mark Dienhart was interested in Saunders, then the Timberwolves coach, when Clem Haskins had to be replaced in 1999. Athletic director Joel Maturi had Saunders, then the Pistons coach, on his list in 2007 to possibly replace Dan Monson.
Saunders has many attributes that made him perhaps the best candidate for the Gophers’ job. Enormously popular with the public, Saunders could create a financial jackpot for the Gophers, with impact on season tickets, single game tickets, donations, corporate support and a lot more. After a career as both a college assistant coach and NBA head coach, Saunders has a high basketball IQ and would have improved the Gophers in both practices and games.
But Saunders, 58, may have decided over the weekend that he doesn’t want all of the work involved in rebuilding the Gophers. While the program was a national power when he played in the 1970s, Gophers’ basketball has been in decline for years. Haskins, Monson and Tubby Smith, who was fired last Monday, all have under .500 records in Big Ten games.
Maybe Saunders decided that unlike his close friend Tom Izzo, the Michigan State coach, he doesn’t want to be chasing 17-year-old recruits all over the country. Some guys don’t want to go into every mama’s kitchen and exclaim in front of the family: “This is the best chili I’ve ever eaten!”
After three “courtships” with Saunders, it’s time for Gophers fans to understand this: Dinkytown doesn’t need someone — even a golden boy — to head the program if he doesn’t want the job.
Move on, and have faith in Teague.
http://shamasportsheadliners.com/
Go Gophers!!
Bleed, if Shama had any street cred with me, this would make perfect sense. But since he doesn't, I'll place his "I know something that you don't" comments on the Twitter Trash Heap with the rest of the guessers, manipulators, and manipulatees.
coolhandgopher
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I think #2 could definitely be in play also; after watching years of The Wire and now Homeland, I pretty much assume anyone in a position of power behaves deceitfully
.
station19
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I would agree with you Bob. This does seem a more likely scenario and one I thought was more possible than just the Ryan angle. My thought was Teague may want input on one of his assistants, especially with Flip's(and possibly his assistants) lack of recent college experience. Didn't think he would insist on hiring the #1 assistant.
My best guess is we will probably never know the whole story.
westcoastgopher11
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+1
Bob_Loblaw
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Yep, if that scenario is true, it's beyond dumb. You don't hire someone and give your trust in them to run a program but not the trust in them to hire a qualified assistant coach.
The Ryan angle was absurd. If that was the holdup, I'm glad we have an AD that told him to kick rocks. If the holdup is this #1 assistant, that's quite bullish out of Teague, and he never was interested in Flip.
Bob_Loblaw
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I think #2 could definitely be in play also; after watching years of The Wire and now Homeland, I pretty much assume anyone in a position of power behaves deceitfully
Pretty much everyone except the most cold blooded characters, Marlo and Omar . They, while murderous, pretty much did what they said and said what they did.
Awesome show.
This makes zero sense. Flip loves the U and he has known for a while that Tubby is in trouble and that he would be under consideration. Something on the table made him walk away. If that something was what it is rumored to be then Flip would be damaging Teague by revealing it and Teague owes him gratitude for not revealing it. If Flip didn't want the trouble of the job he'd have said on day one he wasn't interested. He didn't just get informed over the weekend what it would be like to coach in the Big Ten.
coolhandgopher
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double post
imthewalrus
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