Carter Coughlin: There are few men I’ve met who I respect as much as Coach Fleck

[John Galt]

Ok, make the woman ugly instead of fat.

The man calls the woman ugly, is it supporting that behavior if you agree that the woman is unattractive?

The answer is obviously no.

You really need to stop. This is getting pathetic.

It's supporting the opinion. You might not support the behavior of calling her ugly or fat out loud, but you still would agree that she's ugly or fat.


That's what a number of people have claimed. That what Jerry said is true, but they are disappointed he said it.


Is what Jerry said about PJ true? Who knows other than the people who know him personally.

 

[John Galt]

You have claimed more than once that 2016 was Kill’s Recruiting class. It would be nice if you could keep what you say straight so I don’t have to.


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Who was the coach when the class was signed?

 

[alchemy2u]

He didn't say either of those two things. You're seeing what you want to see, because you want it to be true that he said them. Come on, right back to you.


He said he knew his first wife, it was just in making the point that Fleck changed (his ego got bigger) after he got the W Michigan job. Nothing at all attacking him for getting a divorce there.

He said "do I think he's about the players? No. I think he's about himself". That was in reference to all his flashy gimmicky stuff, running up and down the sidelines, etc. Kill was saying in his opinion that Fleck doesn't do that stuff for the players, he does it to stroke his own ego. Nothing at all even close to saying he doesn't care about the players.

You have got to step back and remove your bias. If you look at the large majority of responses they would say that you’re seeing what you want to see, because you want it to be true that he said them. Kill was extremely popular here and he keeps tarnishing his own reputation. Don’t be so naive to think that Kill didn’t know exactly what he was saying. He was very clear.


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[Spoofin]

You have got to step back and remove your bias. If you look at the large majority of responses they would say that you’re seeing what you want to see, because you want it to be true that he said them. Kill was extremely popular here and he keeps tarnishing his own reputation. Don’t be so naive to think that Kill didn’t know exactly what he was saying. He was very clear.


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I was a huge Kill fan and would love to defend him here, but sadly you are right. He searched out the topic and knew what he was saying. Really too bad.


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[Deleted_User]

Why on earth did Kill do it? What good can come of it? It isn't support because it tore down the existing coach, which any supportive person would not do. Kill has proven repeatedly to be an idiot socially at times. He is human. On the other hand, I think Fleck has fantastic social skills, which makes him more likeable.

 

[Former Goofer]

At least with Kill's comments we finally get to see who he really is, a petty, bitter and jealous old man.

 

[Word]

Why on earth did Kill do it? What good can come of it? It isn't support because it tore down the existing coach, which any supportive person would not do. Kill has proven repeatedly to be an idiot socially at times. He is human. On the other hand, I think Fleck has fantastic social skills, which makes him more likeable.

They are both human. They both have flaws. They both have and will make mistakes.

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[Some guy]

Why on earth did Kill do it? What good can come of it? It isn't support because it tore down the existing coach, which any supportive person would not do. Kill has proven repeatedly to be an idiot socially at times. He is human. On the other hand, I think Fleck has fantastic social skills, which makes him more likeable.

Kill and Claeys were great at PR when everything was going their way. They were horrible at PR when it isn’t. Mishandling of media is literally what cost Claeys his job.

 

[Word]

Kill and Claeys were great at PR when everything was going their way. They were horrible at PR when it isn’t. Mishandling of media is literally what cost Claeys his job.

Failure=growth

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[dpodoll68]

Kill and Claeys were great at PR when everything was going their way. They were horrible at PR when it isn’t. Mishandling of media is literally what cost Claeys his job.

Not being hired by the current AD is literally what cost Claeys his job.

 

[Cruze]

Not being hired by the current AD is literally what cost Claeys his job.

Not even close to being true. Pitino wasn't hired by the current AD and he has had significantly less success (wins and losses) than Claeys had in his only season as head coach. Pitino also had disciplinary issues with his team that pissed off Kaler. Yet Pitino still has his job (for now}.

Claeys lost his job because of his poor handling of the team and his insubordinate behavior during the gang bang scandal. There is no way he would have been fired if he had done what Kaler and Coyle expected of him during the scandal.

 

[Some guy]

Not being hired by the current AD is literally what cost Claeys his job.

Disagree.
Even though I agree that Coyle likely wanted to get rid of him the whole time, he wasn’t going to get rid of him until Claeys turned an internal scandal into an “outside the lines” national story by badly misplaying the whole thing.

Hell, even with as badly as Claeys handled that half the fan base was upset at the firing. If he wouldn’t fired Claeys before that scandal the would’ve been an insurrection within the fan base IMo. There are still large groups of fans that think Claeys didn’t even misplay the scandal. That’s much how support he had. No scandal = no new coach.

9-4 wouldn’t have allowed Coyle to fire him without the scandal as cover. And the scandal was less damaging than Claeys behavior during the scandal.


That’s just my opinion obviously

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It's supporting the opinion. You might not support the behavior of calling her ugly or fat out loud, but you still would agree that she's ugly or fat.


That's what a number of people have claimed. That what Jerry said is true, but they are disappointed he said it.


Is what Jerry said about PJ true? Who knows other than the people who know him personally.

Of course it's supporting the opinion, it's literally agreeing with it.

The fact that the man felt compelled to call the woman is weird (like how Kill's need to yap about PJ on the show was weird).
The fact that the man didn't think it was in poor taste to call the woman is ugly is weird (like how Kill's need to bring up the divorce was weird).

The merits of Kill's opinion are pretty irrelevant here. It's the way and reason that he brought up his opinion of PJ.

I don't think anyone (besides you) is ripping on Kill for having a bad opinion of PJ. People are ripping on him for the manner and need to rip on PJ on the radio.

That is really far from supporting Kill.

Honestly, JG, this is your worst take yet.

 

[Gophers_4life]

There is no way he would have been fired if he had done what Kaler and Coyle expected of him during the scandal.

Not at all true, in my opinion.

Coyle wanted an excuse to go down and grab a hot coach from the MAC. He did exactly that at Syracuse, grabbing Dino Babers from Bowling Green (which has turned well for Syracuse). I'm guessing he sold that plan to Kaler and the Regents, and then had to set about figuring a way to either buy-out Claeys or see if there was some way to fire him for cause. We know what happened from there ...

 

[John Galt]

Of course it's supporting the opinion, it's literally agreeing with it.

The fact that the man felt compelled to call the woman is weird (like how Kill's need to yap about PJ on the show was weird).
The fact that the man didn't think it was in poor taste to call the woman is ugly is weird (like how Kill's need to bring up the divorce was weird).

The merits of Kill's opinion are pretty irrelevant here. It's the way and reason that he brought up his opinion of PJ.

I don't think anyone (besides you) is ripping on Kill for having a bad opinion of PJ. People are ripping on him for the manner and need to rip on PJ on the radio.

That is really far from supporting Kill.

Honestly, JG, this is your worst take yet.

You really don’t follow this Bob? Kill’s opinion was that PJ doesn’t care about his players. Among other things. People are ripping Kill for his opinion on PJ and the fact that he said it. If you attack a coach and make a statement that he’s all about himself and doesn’t care about his players, you are throwing a hand grenade and going to have a lot of people disagreeing with you. Posters, former and current players, and others who know Fleck personally are criticizing him for having such a ridiculous position. I have no doubt that Kill, Brewster, Mason and Fleck all cared about their players as people. For Kill to insinuate otherwise is a terrible take that is being shredded and ruining any remaining support he had.

 

[Mulligan]

Not being hired by the current AD is literally what cost Claeys his job.

From StarTribune, November 29, 2016:

"Gophers athletic director Mark Coyle publicly voiced support for football coach Tracy Claeys on Monday, and two sources familiar with the situation said contract extension offers are coming soon for Claeys and his staff.

Coyle issued a statement that said, in part: “He is our head football coach. As is the case with every one of our head coaches, he has my full support.”

According to the sources, Coyle actually notified Claeys a month ago that the coach would be coming back next season. With Claeys on the road recruiting Monday, they spoke by telephone, with Coyle reconfirming that commitment."


People bitter about Coyle just keep glossing over this. Ya, our AD is such an idiot that he says this but is intending to fire the coach. Sex scandal puts the program in the national spotlight. Then the team threatens the boycott and Claeys issues a tone-deaf message supporting them. Team went ahead with their plans even after Claeys told them it would cost him his job. Lots of chaos and a coach in over his head.

I don't doubt Coyle had another vision for the football program and Claeys wouldn't have lasted. But it wouldn't have happened then--not "literally"--not that year. A stickler for facts like you also ignores them when it fits your agenda.

 

[dpodoll68]

Not even close to being true. Pitino wasn't hired by the current AD and he has had significantly less success (wins and losses) than Claeys had in his only season as head coach. Pitino also had disciplinary issues with his team that pissed off Kaler. Yet Pitino still has his job (for now}.

Claeys lost his job because of his poor handling of the team and his insubordinate behavior during the gang bang scandal. There is no way he would have been fired if he had done what Kaler and Coyle expected of him during the scandal.

Actually, it's 100% true. Teague came in and fired Tubby because he fancied himself a basketball expert - he'd already hired Smart and was going to do it again. In exactly the same fashion, Coyle came in and fired Claeys because he fancied himself a football expert. He'd already hired Harsin and Babers, and was going to hire another football coach at this job as well. This is simple stuff.

 

[Mulligan]

nm

 

[dpodoll68]

Disagree.
Even though I agree that Coyle likely wanted to get rid of him the whole time, he wasn’t going to get rid of him until Claeys turned an internal scandal into an “outside the lines” national story by badly misplaying the whole thing.

Hell, even with as badly as Claeys handled that half the fan base was upset at the firing. If he wouldn’t fired Claeys before that scandal the would’ve been an insurrection within the fan base IMo. There are still large groups of fans that think Claeys didn’t even misplay the scandal. That’s much how support he had. No scandal = no new coach.

9-4 wouldn’t have allowed Coyle to fire him without the scandal as cover. And the scandal was less damaging than Claeys behavior during the scandal.


That’s just my opinion obviously

Claeys didn't misplay the "scandal". And, again, it didn't matter how he handled it - he was gone either way.

 

[dpodoll68]

From StarTribune, November 29, 2016:

"Gophers athletic director Mark Coyle publicly voiced support for football coach Tracy Claeys on Monday, and two sources familiar with the situation said contract extension offers are coming soon for Claeys and his staff.

Coyle issued a statement that said, in part: “He is our head football coach. As is the case with every one of our head coaches, he has my full support.”

According to the sources, Coyle actually notified Claeys a month ago that the coach would be coming back next season. With Claeys on the road recruiting Monday, they spoke by telephone, with Coyle reconfirming that commitment."


People bitter about Coyle just keep glossing over this. Ya, our AD is such an idiot that he says this but is intending to fire the coach. Sex scandal puts the program in the national spotlight. Then the team threatens the boycott and Claeys issues a tone-deaf message supporting them. Team went ahead with their plans even after Claeys told them it would cost him his job. Lots of chaos and a coach in over his head.

I don't doubt Coyle had another vision for the football program and Claeys wouldn't have lasted. But it wouldn't have happened then--not "literally"--not that year. A stickler for facts like you also ignores them when it fits your agenda.

Yes, that is the first time in the history of sports that someone got a vote of confidence when the decision-maker was intending to fire them all along. Yup, first time ever. I didn't take you to be this naive.

 

[Spoofin]

From StarTribune, November 29, 2016:

"Gophers athletic director Mark Coyle publicly voiced support for football coach Tracy Claeys on Monday, and two sources familiar with the situation said contract extension offers are coming soon for Claeys and his staff.

Coyle issued a statement that said, in part: “He is our head football coach. As is the case with every one of our head coaches, he has my full support.”

According to the sources, Coyle actually notified Claeys a month ago that the coach would be coming back next season. With Claeys on the road recruiting Monday, they spoke by telephone, with Coyle reconfirming that commitment."


People bitter about Coyle just keep glossing over this. Ya, our AD is such an idiot that he says this but is intending to fire the coach. Sex scandal puts the program in the national spotlight. Then the team threatens the boycott and Claeys issues a tone-deaf message supporting them. Team went ahead with their plans even after Claeys told them it would cost him his job. Lots of chaos and a coach in over his head.

I don't doubt Coyle had another vision for the football program and Claeys wouldn't have lasted. But it wouldn't have happened then--not "literally"--not that year. A stickler for facts like you also ignores them when it fits your agenda.

Brilliant! As if there wasn’t something in sports termed the “dreaded vote of confidence”. Bright as a bulb, this one.


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[Spoofin]

We are really going to pretend now that Coyle didn’t always plan to fire Claeys? Really? We are really going to do this?


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[Word]

Yes, that is the first time in the history of sports that someone got a vote of confidence when the decision-maker was intending to fire them all along. Yup, first time ever. I didn't take you to be this naive.

Nothing screams support more than the line "He is our head football coach".

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Claeys didn't misplay the "scandal". And, again, it didn't matter how he handled it - he was gone either way.

You can't be serious with the first part of this quote. Claeys himself has admitted he would have handled things different.

 

[Goldteam]

didn't Claeys get in his car and say something like, "Enjoy the cold or enjoy the weather"........when he was leaving for the last time.

Well, he busted me on that one. I'm so f-----g sick of the weather in this state.

 

[Dano564]

Claeys didn't misplay the "scandal". And, again, it didn't matter how he handled it - he was gone either way.

People think belittling a 9 win season is dumb and / or stupid.
But I would argue the underlined is worse.

 

[Dano564]

didn't Claeys get in his car and say something like, "Enjoy the cold or enjoy the weather"........when he was leaving for the last time.

Well, he busted me on that one. I'm so f-----g sick of the weather in this state.

Yes, something like that.
He showed his bitterness at the time which seemed petty and unprofessional, but 3 years later it's not a surprise seeing who his head coach was.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I’d be bitter too if the AD publicly gave me a vote of confidence and then stabbed me in the back and scapegoated me for something that wasn’t my fault at all, using it to avoid paying the buyout.

 

[Dano564]

I’d be bitter too if the AD publicly gave me a vote of confidence and then stabbed me in the back and scapegoated me for something that wasn’t my fault at all, using it to avoid paying the buyout.

Isn't it well known that when you get a "vote of confidence" in the majority of cases you are gone within a few months?
That's why it's "dreaded".

You essentially know that if people are asking your boss about this it's already too late.
It seems as if some of you took Coyle's words literally.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

“He is our head football coach”

One for the ages.