Carter Coughlin: There are few men I’ve met who I respect as much as Coach Fleck

[Minnesconsin fan]

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It's nice that CC45 did post it though which is a bit of a dig at Kill right now.
But Kill should just apologize, or else some media outlet should just have Kill and Fleck meet to have a televised discussion so they can bury the hatchet.
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if they televise the "bury the hatchet" episode and PJ shows up with the Axe and JK takes offense to that as a jab for never beating Wisconsin, this could get even worse

 

[Gophers_4life]

I respectfully disagree with much of your take....especially the part about "I knew his first wife." How the hell does that have any bearing on anything other than a shot at PJ? And when Kill said PJ doesn't care about his players, only himself? Come on man.

He didn't say either of those two things. You're seeing what you want to see, because you want it to be true that he said them. Come on, right back to you.


He said he knew his first wife, it was just in making the point that Fleck changed (his ego got bigger) after he got the W Michigan job. Nothing at all attacking him for getting a divorce there.

He said "do I think he's about the players? No. I think he's about himself". That was in reference to all his flashy gimmicky stuff, running up and down the sidelines, etc. Kill was saying in his opinion that Fleck doesn't do that stuff for the players, he does it to stroke his own ego. Nothing at all even close to saying he doesn't care about the players.

 

[Spoofin]

No one is going to overtly support Kill for his approach on this. You and a few others been pretty vocal that some of what he said you believe to be true. I'd call that "support."

If you view any of my posts on this topic as support for Kill then there really is no pleasing you. I think I have expressed my disappointment in Kill at least 5-Times and my support of PJ taking the high road at least twice. But please JG, keep spreading misinformation.


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[Bob_Loblaw]

Are Kill and Claeys the same guy? Or was Claeys his own coach, I'm really confused. My message clearly stated Kill.

In response to a message about Claeys and Kill. Quite pretending. You realize we can all scroll up and look at the exchange right?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

No one is going to overtly support Kill for his approach on this. You and a few others been pretty vocal that some of what he said you believe to be true. I'd call that "support."

Huh? This is the most bizarre take in any thread on this subject. This might be more bizarre than anything in the Max Janes thread.

So if someone thinks that Kill was completely wrong in bringing up the issue (i.e. "his approach"), but they also think Fleck is egotistical and likely changed a bit, you'd call that support?

You think someone who unequivocally believes Kill was wrong and shouldn't have brought up his opinion supports JK on? That's absolutely asinine. You should really stop using this "babe in the woods" character on here.

 

[John Galt]

Huh? This is the most bizarre take in any thread on this subject. This might be more bizarre than anything in the Max Janes thread.

So if someone thinks that Kill was completely wrong in bringing up the issue (i.e. "his approach"), but they also think Fleck is egotistical and likely changed a bit, you'd call that support?

You think someone who unequivocally believes Kill was wrong and shouldn't have brought up his opinion supports JK on? That's absolutely asinine. You should really stop using this "babe in the woods" character on here.

Of course it’s support. If someone largely agrees with the content of a message but doesn’t like that it was said or how it was said, you are still supporting the intent of what was communicated.

 

[GophersInIowa]

He didn't say either of those two things. You're seeing what you want to see, because you want it to be true that he said them. Come on, right back to you.


He said he knew his first wife, it was just in making the point that Fleck changed (his ego got bigger) after he got the W Michigan job. Nothing at all attacking him for getting a divorce there.

He said "do I think he's about the players? No. I think he's about himself". That was in reference to all his flashy gimmicky stuff, running up and down the sidelines, etc. Kill was saying in his opinion that Fleck doesn't do that stuff for the players, he does it to stroke his own ego. Nothing at all even close to saying he doesn't care about the players.

For the most part Kill was very well liked and respected by our fan base. Why would anyone want this to be true? I've said that my reaction to this was disappointment in Kill. I really liked Kill, but think he was very wrong here. I wish that wasn't the case.

 

[Gophers_4life]

For the most part Kill was very well liked and respected by our fan base. Why would anyone want this to be true?

There is very clearly a contingent on here who support Fleck and dislike Kill and/or Claeys. I don't understand it myself. I don't see why you can't like both (all) for the good things that each of them have done, or will do. That is my personal take.

But I've seen too much on here in this week, in three different threads now, of people going way out of their way to take offense to imagined meanings that were never said and never intended, in the Kill rant. That, is mainly what I'm battling against.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

For the most part Kill was very well liked and respected by our fan base. Why would anyone want this to be true? I've said that my reaction to this was disappointment in Kill. I really liked Kill, but think he was very wrong here. I wish that wasn't the case.

Yeah of all people I don't think anyone in GH land wants to think bad things about Jerry, everyone liked Jerry.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Of course it’s support. If someone largely agrees with the content of a message but doesn’t like that it was said or how it was said, you are still supporting the intent of what was communicated.

Wow.

So if a man walks down the street and sees an overweight woman and mocks her for her weight, it is supporting that behavior if you agree that the woman was overweight?

That's a profoundly stupid idea.

 

[John Galt]

Wow.

So if a man walks down the street and sees an overweight woman and mocks her for her weight, it is supporting that behavior if you agree that the woman was overweight?

That's a profoundly stupid idea.

You're confusing something that can largely be proven - a woman who is obese and overweight - with something that is completely subjective: Fleck doesn't care about his players and is all about himself.

 

[scools12]

Speaking only for myself, I would largely say that what Kill actually intended was largely misunderstood, and, perhaps purposefully (actually, I'd say that is almost certainly the case), mis-characterized and mis-framed.

He didn't attack Fleck for getting a divorce. He didn't say that Fleck doesn't care about his players.

The main thrust of the comments was that he thinks Fleck has a big ego, and that his ego got way bigger after he was no longer an assistant coach of Kill's and got the W Michigan job. That part, I actually believe is probably true.

And many people have already agreed that they really aren't bothered that Fleck has a big ego, and in fact even expect a P5 head coach to hae one.

Not sure how anyone could get Kill is being misunderstood out of what he said.

Kill absolutely insinuated Fleck does not care about the players.


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[PhillyGopher]

Wow.

So if a man walks down the street and sees an overweight woman and mocks her for her weight, it is supporting that behavior if you agree that the woman was overweight?

That's a profoundly stupid idea.

Is it just her butt, or is it all over - makes a difference

 

[Johnob2]

Mmmm .... very interesting the way this is all playing out.... (One for the conspiracy theorists)

Gophers on the cusp of a genuine take off:
- On the edge of the preseason top 25 polls (starting to get national attention)
- More depth in a number of position groups than we've had for decades
- Competitive with Power 5 recruits

Problems:
- Lack of interest (apathy) locally (as judged by ticket sales)
- Problem accentuated by local media who tend to be so unbelievably negative and cynical
- Players need something to sustain that edge/hunger during the off-season

Solution:
Former Coach goes totally over the top in criticising the new coach during a quiet media period (old coach and new coach have personal ties)

Outcomes:
- Players rush to defend their new coach affirming what a great guy he is (and he genuinely is) = recruiting points and headlines on ESPN
- (Most) fans rush to defend new coach and create interest in local media = could help ticket sales
- Criticism so crazily over the top by old coach that it makes it hard for negative local journalists to support that viewpoint = shut up Pat and Jim
- Players have a banner to form up behind = work harder in the weight room in the offseason

Conclusion:
- Strategic mastermind that Coach Fleck
- Well played agent Kill
- Check mate Badgers - West Division Title

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You're confusing something that can largely be proven - a woman who is obese and overweight - with something that is completely subjective: Fleck doesn't care about his players and is all about himself.

Ok, make the woman ugly instead of fat.

The man calls the woman ugly, is it supporting that behavior if you agree that the woman is unattractive?

The answer is obviously no.

You really need to stop. This is getting pathetic.

 

[BroncoRedux]

Ok, make the woman ugly instead of fat.

The man calls the woman ugly, is it supporting that behavior if you agree that the woman is unattractive?

The answer is obviously no.

You really need to stop. This is getting pathetic.

An observation from afar: What's pathetic is the syntax used in your sentence structure. Construct a sentence that can be understood without painful mental iterations. This criticism is true for Mr. Gait also.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

An observation from afar: What's pathetic is the syntax used in your sentence structure. Construct a sentence that can be understood without painful mental iterations. This criticism is true for Mr. Gait also.

You couldn't understand our posts without painful mental iterations? I think you might want to see a doctor.

Which sentence caused the confusion?

 

[die hard gopher]

No one is going to overtly support Kill for his approach on this. You and a few others been pretty vocal that some of what he said you believe to be true. I'd call that "support."

Antonio Johnson already did. See post #42 in this thread.

 

[GophersInIowa]

There is very clearly a contingent on here who support Fleck and dislike Kill and/or Claeys. I don't understand it myself. I don't see why you can't like both (all) for the good things that each of them have done, or will do. That is my personal take.

But I've seen too much on here in this week, in three different threads now, of people going way out of their way to take offense to imagined meanings that were never said and never intended, in the Kill rant. That, is mainly what I'm battling against.

How do you know this? Kill went out of his way to bring this up even after 2 years. What other reason would he do it than to try to make Fleck look bad? When his intentions are clearly so full of hate, why would anyone give him the benefit of the doubt?

 

[Gophers_4life]

How do you know this? Kill went out of his way to bring this up even after 2 years. What other reason would he do it than to try to make Fleck look bad? When his intentions are clearly so full of hate, why would anyone give him the benefit of the doubt?

I honestly don't understand why this is so difficult for you.

You nailed it. He wanted to say something bad about Fleck. I've already agreed to as much, several times.

I'm saying, I've been saying, I've long ago died on this hill ...... the veracity of the interpretations of what Kill said, by GH posters on here, are fallacies.

I'm merely trying to correct the magnitude and true intention, of the bad things Kill was saying. Because they're 1% as bad as people here are trying to make them out to be.


How do I know that??

OK -- why are you assuming that the people on here who claim that the worst possible interpretations of what Kill said, are the ground truth, and it's up to me to show that my less interpretation is actually true??

How do they know??

 

[GophersInIowa]

I honestly don't understand why this is so difficult for you.

You nailed it. He wanted to say something bad about Fleck. I've already agreed to as much, several times.

I'm saying, I've been saying, I've long ago died on this hill ...... the veracity of the interpretations of what Kill said, by GH posters on here, are fallacies.

I'm merely trying to correct the magnitude and true intention, of the bad things Kill was saying. Because they're 1% as bad as people here are trying to make them out to be.


How do I know that??

OK -- why are you assuming that the people on here who claim that the worst possible interpretations of what Kill said, are the ground truth, and it's up to me to show that my less interpretation is actually true??

How do they know??

I'm not believing everyone else. I'm believing Kill. He's the one that said those things. He brought up the players. He brought up the ex-wife. When he says Fleck is only about himself, how does someone not interpret that to mean he thinks everything Fleck does is to benefit himself only? Maybe that isn't what he meant, but that is what he said.

 

[Gophers_4life]

He brought up the players. He brought up the ex-wife. When he says Fleck is only about himself, how does someone not interpret that to mean he thinks everything Fleck does is to benefit himself only? Maybe that isn't what he meant, but that is what he said.

Because it's Jerry, man! Listen to the way he talks! The guy does not elaborate. He doesn't use full sentences. He doesn't finish his thoughts.

That is on him. But it really isn't that hard to see the gist of what he's getting at, if you try.


Rather, it seems like a lot on here are trying NOT to get that gist. They're trying to get something else. That's my take.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Because it's Jerry, man! Listen to the way he talks! The guy does not elaborate. He doesn't use full sentences. He doesn't finish his thoughts.

That is on him. But it really isn't that hard to see the gist of what he's getting at, if you try.


Rather, it seems like a lot on here are trying NOT to get that gist. They're trying to get something else. That's my take.

To me it isn't about what he didn't say, but what he did say. Bringing up the ex-wife no matter the reason was ridiculous. And if he had just said "Fleck is all about himself" instead of first saying he isn't about the players, I could maybe understand it. Saying he isn't about the players indicates to me he thinks everything Fleck does is to benefit himself.

If Kill is going to go on a rant like this, then it's his own fault if he said things he didn't mean.

 

[dpodoll68]

I imagine the firing of Claeys could have been a legal nightmare if not handled well, so while you are cutting a staff, you can't be praising them at the same time.

Huh? Sure you can. From a legal perspective, that's what the buyout is for. You can fire a coach for any reason, or no reason at all - assuming you pay them their buyout.

 

[dpodoll68]

I’ve been told by people that Claeys wasn’t an interim coach and was completely his own regime

Claeys wasn't an interim coach. Claeys was completely his own regime. These are two factual statements.

 

[hungan1]

You have to commend Carter Coughlin for coming out in support of his coach. He is not a sycophant. He is being a leader of them team. He bleeds Maroon and Gold. So does his entire family.

It is a shame what happen publicly. Whatever the disagreement between PJ Fleck and Jerry Kill should have been said/settled in private. I don't think I ever heard Brewster or Mason say any bad things about the coaches who succeeded them.

Did the public diatribe tarnish Jerry Kill's legacy? Time will tell. He'done so much for the U and for charity.

 

[Gophers_4life]

To me it isn't about what he didn't say, but what he did say. Bringing up the ex-wife no matter the reason was ridiculous. And if he had just said "Fleck is all about himself" instead of first saying he isn't about the players, I could maybe understand it. Saying he isn't about the players indicates to me he thinks everything Fleck does is to benefit himself.

If Kill is going to go on a rant like this, then it's his own fault if he said things he didn't mean.

At some point, you’re right on this and I’m wrong, because of your last sentence.

I was able to suss out what he meant, but he should speak more carefully.

It’s obvious we’ll have to agree to disagree on what we think he meant.

 

[GophersInIowa]

At some point, you’re right on this and I’m wrong, because of your last sentence.

I was able to suss out what he meant, but he should speak more carefully.

It’s obvious we’ll have to agree to disagree on what we think he meant.

Agreed.

 

[John Galt]

Claeys wasn't an interim coach. Claeys was completely his own regime. These are two factual statements.

But yet it was Kill's culture somehow. Logic failure.

 

[Spoofin]

But yet it was Kill's culture somehow. Logic failure.

You have claimed more than once that 2016 was Kill’s Recruiting class. It would be nice if you could keep what you say straight so I don’t have to.


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