Carter Coughlin: There are few men I’ve met who I respect as much as Coach Fleck

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Gophers_4life said:
I think he’s just still mad about the culture stuff, which I think is a misunderstanding. And that is unfortunate.

Obviously Fleck can’t go on he radio and say “hey look Jerry, there was nothing wrong with your culture. You did a lot of good stuff. Had the GPA up. Got the athletes village built. But Kaler and Coyle told me when I took the job I had to come in and trash the previous culture. I had to do that as a PR stunt to scapegoat it because of the scandal.”

But he could in a private phone call.
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I think this is something that could have been put to bed if our AD had more charisma.

I imagine the firing of Claeys could have been a legal nightmare if not handled well, so while you are cutting a staff, you can't be praising them at the same time.

When Kill first started with his level of being upset at the U and Fleck years ago, the AD could have reached out to have conversations.

Jerry, why are you upset?
What did we say wrong.
We can't take that back.
We can issue a statement of appreciation for everything you did.
We can't say it about Claeys right now.
Ok, impasse. We just disagree on some things.

Let's talk again in 6 months or a year.

Jerry, we want to recognize you. Can we talk about why you are bitter?
What's your issue with PJ?
Etc.,

This public airing of grievances isn't healthy for the U, and I'm glad Fleck isn't joining in, but Coyle should step in to play mediator a bit.
 


Spoofin said:
I’m sure the current players love PJ, but having anyone on the current team say as much doesn’t really prove it. I’m sure TM2 posting “you got it Kill” would do wonders for their careers here. Next Heather will endorse him. It’s the equivalent of KHH’s Dad telling us why he left the U.


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What a bunch of cynical crap. Did PJ hold a gun to Carter's head?
 

Face The Facts said:
I think this is something that could have been put to bed if our AD had more charisma.

I imagine the firing of Claeys could have been a legal nightmare if not handled well, so while you are cutting a staff, you can't be praising them at the same time.

When Kill first started with his level of being upset at the U and Fleck years ago, the AD could have reached out to have conversations.

Jerry, why are you upset?
What did we say wrong.
We can't take that back.
We can issue a statement of appreciation for everything you did.
We can't say it about Claeys right now.
Ok, impasse. We just disagree on some things.

Let's talk again in 6 months or a year.

Jerry, we want to recognize you. Can we talk about why you are bitter?
What's your issue with PJ?
Etc.,

This public airing of grievances isn't healthy for the U, and I'm glad Fleck isn't joining in, but Coyle should step in to play mediator a bit.
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In private maybe but I wouldn't publicly acknowledge Jerry and his grievances. At this point Kill has pretty much burned every bridge with the University. Had he just kept his mouth shut the way most coaches do then he would have been remembered as a well-liked coach that did some good things here before unfortunately having to step down for health reasons.

Now he is the bitter ex-coach going on National airwaves 2+ years later to blast the current coach. It is a shame really, all Kill is accomplishing in this is tarnishing his own legacy with a lot of fans who were really supportive of him. Don't really think anything he has to say is going to change people's opinions about Fleck, those that liked him before will still like him and those that didn't obviously won't.
 

There has to be something more to this that we aren’t privy to. It doesn’t make any sense to just do this randomly so long after the fact.

I wonder if Kill got wind of something recently, that was either said recently by Fleck to a 3rd party trashing the previous culture, or perhaps was said back when Fleck was first hired, and Kill just got wind of it recently.

Think like when Marlo first found out that Omar had called him out in the streets, and Chris and his people had kept that from him for a while.
 


alchemy2u said:
Now you are just turning into a troll. Like others have said, CC has been coached by PJ and Kill. He is just putting his two cents in defending PJ from being attacked by Kill.
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I'm glad CC did what he did and my guess is he did it out of his love for the team, program, and PJ.

Can we just stop calling people trolls for stating opinions that others disagree with though? I don't think I agree with Spoof on this one, but that doesn't mean he's a troll. Since when do we have to live in a world where everyone thinks the same and everyone that doesn't is a troll? Spoof has his opinions and usually has evidence to state his case - it doesn't mean you have to buy what he's selling though. Make your case against him and carry on with your day.

Reusse is a troll - he just throws opinions (that he doesn't even believe himself) out there to stir the pot and rile people up.
 

Word said:
I'm glad CC did what he did and my guess is he did it out of his love for the team, program, and PJ.

Can we just stop calling people trolls for stating opinions that others disagree with though? I don't think I agree with Spoof on this one, but that doesn't mean he's a troll. Since when do we have to live in a world where everyone thinks the same and everyone that doesn't is a troll? Spoof has his opinions and usually has evidence to state his case - it doesn't mean you have to buy what he's selling though. Make your case against him and carry on with your day.

Reusse is a troll - he just throws opinions (that he doesn't even believe himself) out there to stir the pot and rile people up.
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I agree. Spoofin was not being a troll in this thread.
 

Gophers_4life said:
There has to be something more to this that we aren’t privy to. It doesn’t make any sense to just do this randomly so long after the fact.

I wonder if Kill got wind of something recently, that was either said recently by Fleck to a 3rd party trashing the previous culture, or perhaps was said back when Fleck was first hired, and Kill just got wind of it recently.

Think like when Marlo first found out that Omar had called him out in the streets, and Chris and his people had kept that from him for a while.
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I'd guess it's both of them. There is obviously something we don't know the full extent of, Kill said so much (the call between Fleck and Kill).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'd guess it's both of them. There is obviously something we don't know the full extent of, Kill said so much (the call between Fleck and Kill).
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Pure speculation, but perhaps in some team meeting recently or in the past, PJ has said some not so flattering things towards the previous culture established by Kill and continued through Claeys. Players on the team that were Kill/Claeys guys then left the meeting and spoke to Kill about what was said.
Regardless of that, Kill was still wrong to say it in public the way he did. Had he met face to face with PJ or contacted him by phone and said those things, then none of us would have known about it and it wouldn't have turned into the chit show it has.
 



Gophers_4life said:
There has to be something more to this that we aren’t privy to. It doesn’t make any sense to just do this randomly so long after the fact.

I wonder if Kill got wind of something recently, that was either said recently by Fleck to a 3rd party trashing the previous culture, or perhaps was said back when Fleck was first hired, and Kill just got wind of it recently.

Think like when Marlo first found out that Omar had called him out in the streets, and Chris and his people had kept that from him for a while.
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Jealousy is my best guess.
 

Jerry Kill = grumpy old-school bastard that is jealous of the young up-and-coming coaches. Hang it up "I'll never coach again"Jerry....
 

Word said:
I'm glad CC did what he did and my guess is he did it out of his love for the team, program, and PJ.

Can we just stop calling people trolls for stating opinions that others disagree with though? I don't think I agree with Spoof on this one, but that doesn't mean he's a troll. Since when do we have to live in a world where everyone thinks the same and everyone that doesn't is a troll? Spoof has his opinions and usually has evidence to state his case - it doesn't mean you have to buy what he's selling though. Make your case against him and carry on with your day.

Reusse is a troll - he just throws opinions (that he doesn't even believe himself) out there to stir the pot and rile people up.
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There are a lot of regular posters on Gopherhole who label anyone a troll for saying anything remotely negative about the state of our athletics.
 

PoockItInfor6 said:
Jealousy is my best guess.
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The most straightforward explanation is often the correct one.

It was exactly one week ago that Jerry Kill signed his contract as the permanent athletic director for Southern Illinois University. He will be paid $215,000 per year. He is now 57 years old. I have to believe that all those years he was clawing his way to the top, he didn't envision this was how he would be paid at the end of his career.
 



GFBfan said:
Pure speculation, but perhaps in some team meeting recently or in the past, PJ has said some not so flattering things towards the previous culture established by Kill and continued through Claeys. Players on the team that were Kill/Claeys guys then left the meeting and spoke to Kill about what was said.
Regardless of that, Kill was still wrong to say it in public the way he did. Had he met face to face with PJ or contacted him by phone and said those things, then none of us would have known about it and it wouldn't have turned into the chit show it has.
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PJ has already rebuilt the roster. Off the top of my head, Rodney is the only guy still on the team who played for both Kill and Fleck. There aren't any "Kill" guys on the team.
 

John Galt said:
PJ has already rebuilt the roster. Off the top of my head, Rodney is the only guy still on the team who played for both Kill and Fleck. There aren't any "Kill" guys on the team.
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There are a bunch of guys recruited and coached by Claeys.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
There are a bunch of guys recruited and coached by Claeys.
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True. But I said Kill and Fleck. There can't be anyone on the team still loyal to Kill, because other than Rodney, no one played for him.
 

John Galt said:
True. But I said Kill and Fleck. There can't be anyone on the team still loyal to Kill, because other than Rodney, no one played for him.
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Your first sentence was "Pj has already rebuilt the roster" in response to the other poster specifically bringing up Kill & Claeys.
 

John Galt said:
PJ has already rebuilt the roster. Off the top of my head, Rodney is the only guy still on the team who played for both Kill and Fleck. There aren't any "Kill" guys on the team.
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Prior to the Bowl game there was some issue in which player(s) got into trouble after the Awesome beat down of sconnie to win the axe. KM21 was even left home and we don't know if there were others involved. Perhaps during the team meeting regarding that incident PJ said some things towards prior culture that got back to Kill. At that time, there were still some Kill guys on the team. Again I'm just speculating why Country Jer went off like a fool on the radio this week.
 

GFBfan said:
Prior to the Bowl game there was some issue in which player(s) got into trouble after the Awesome beat down of sconnie to win the axe. KM21 was even left home and we don't know if there were others involved. Perhaps during the team meeting regarding that incident PJ said some things towards prior culture that got back to Kill. At that time, there were still some Kill guys on the team. Again I'm just speculating why Country Jer went off like a fool on the radio this week.
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Unfortunately, yes.
 

An inarticulate buffoon spoke on the radio and badmouthed the existing coach of the U. Then people feign to think he supports the U. That contradiction makes it absurd to think he supports the U. It is > B.S..
 

Dean S said:
An inarticulate buffoon spoke on the radio and badmouthed the existing coach of the U. Then people feign to think he supports the U. That contradiction makes it absurd to think he supports the U. It is > B.S..
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Have you seen a lot of support for JK on here? I don’t recall any.


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Dean S said:
So? What is your point, big fella?
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What is your point? Looking at the poll it is very clear that the vast majority of people here feel Kill was in the wrong with what he said and there has been basically universal disappointment in how he has handled himself since he left the U and specifically in regards to this issue.

I think at this point it is pretty clear that Kill has no love left for the University outside of maybe a tiny sliver for any players left on the roster that he may have recruited. Once those guys are gone he won't want anything to do with the University anymore.

At this point Kill has done some pretty big damage to his legacy here and if Fleck has any level of sustained success Kill will quickly become and after thought in the pantheon of Gopher football coaches.
 

GFBfan said:
Prior to the Bowl game there was some issue in which player(s) got into trouble after the Awesome beat down of sconnie to win the axe. KM21 was even left home and we don't know if there were others involved. Perhaps during the team meeting regarding that incident PJ said some things towards prior culture that got back to Kill. At that time, there were still some Kill guys on the team. Again I'm just speculating why Country Jer went off like a fool on the radio this week.
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Even that would be weird. Jerry knows coach's say things to get a response from players all the time... sometimes entirely constructed.

I worry Jerry is just really struggling with life outside football and takes who knows what personally.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Even that would be weird. Jerry knows coach's say things to get a response from players all the time... sometimes entirely constructed.

I worry Jerry is just really struggling with life outside football and takes who knows what personally.
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Based on how he has conducted himself since he stepped down here I think there is zero doubt that the part in bold is true. He spent most of his adult life as a head coach with a ton of power. Has to be tough to give that up and step into a more secondary role when you are used to being the guy in charge. Being an AD might help but it still isn't the same as being the head football coach for a major college team.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Your first sentence was "Pj has already rebuilt the roster" in response to the other poster specifically bringing up Kill & Claeys.
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Are Kill and Claeys the same guy? Or was Claeys his own coach, I'm really confused. My message clearly stated Kill.
 

Spoofin said:
Have you seen a lot of support for JK on here? I don’t recall any.


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No one is going to overtly support Kill for his approach on this. You and a few others been pretty vocal that some of what he said you believe to be true. I'd call that "support."
 

John Galt said:
No one is going to overtly support Kill for his approach on this. You and a few others been pretty vocal that some of what he said you believe to be true. I'd call that "support."
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Speaking only for myself, I would largely say that what Kill actually intended was largely misunderstood, and, perhaps purposefully (actually, I'd say that is almost certainly the case), mis-characterized and mis-framed.

He didn't attack Fleck for getting a divorce. He didn't say that Fleck doesn't care about his players.

The main thrust of the comments was that he thinks Fleck has a big ego, and that his ego got way bigger after he was no longer an assistant coach of Kill's and got the W Michigan job. That part, I actually believe is probably true.

And many people have already agreed that they really aren't bothered that Fleck has a big ego, and in fact even expect a P5 head coach to hae one.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Speaking only for myself, I would largely say that what Kill actually intended was largely misunderstood, and, perhaps purposefully (actually, I'd say that is almost certainly the case), mis-characterized and mis-framed.

He didn't attack Fleck for getting a divorce. He didn't say that Fleck doesn't care about his players.

The main thrust of the comments was that he thinks Fleck has a big ego, and that his ego got way bigger after he was no longer an assistant coach of Kill's and got the W Michigan job. That part, I actually believe is probably true.

And many people have already agreed that they really aren't bothered that Fleck has a big ego, and in fact even expect a P5 head coach to hae one.
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I respectfully disagree with much of your take....especially the part about "I knew his first wife." How the hell does that have any bearing on anything other than a shot at PJ? And when Kill said PJ doesn't care about his players, only himself? Come on man.
 

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