Can Pitino get us to Wisconsin's level?

[John Galt]

You misread the poll.

It wasn't would you like to be in the NCAA vs NIT, it was in hindsight would you rather be Iowa or Minnesota right now.

You'll never get me to say I'd rather be Iowa for anything...

As for basektball, I'd rather be in the tournament that matters. A B1G team that makes the NCAA tourney had a better season than one that didn't. And I guarantee Pitino feels the same way. He could sell making the Big Dance to recruits far better than any "success" that comes from the NIT. But I've already made this point in another thread.

 

[scher215]

I believe if someone like Teague would have been hired in 2002 rather than Joel "culture of no expectations" Maturi, we would be at their level now. They have to deal with Marquette in state and we don't have anything like that, so for us not to be thriving in basketball is absolutely ridiculous.

While MN is getting better. The BCS HS talent in Wisconsin is far more numerous than that of Minnesota.

 

[Mn foliage]

While MN is getting better. The BCS HS talent in Wisconsin is far more numerous than that of Minnesota.

Interesting, I am not sure that is the case. It will be fun to see if others who know more than me chime in with their opinion.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

It's going to take 10+ years to get to Wisconsin's level. We'll have to steadily improve under Pitino, get ground broken on a facility in 3-4 years. Complete it in 6 years. And then another 5 years to build a system of 3 and 4* players with at least a 5* on the roster at all times and no weak links (No Mav's, Oto's, etc.).

Don't like that timeline? Jump on another team. We won't be consistently great for a long time if ever. We might make a deep tournament run in the next 10 years. Maybe even a final four, but it won't be as a 1 or 2 seed like Wisconsin.

It would be like a UCONN in 2011 or 2014 if we made the final four.

 

[scher215]

Interesting, I am not sure that is the case. It will be fun to see if others who know more than me chime in with their opinion.

Just using the Rivals 150

2009-
WI: 2
MN: 5

2010-
WI:1
MN: 0

2011
WI: 2
MN: 1

2012
WI: 4
MN: 0

2013:
WI: 5
MN: 1 (Kyle Washington - Transfered to NC)

2014-
WI: 3
MN: 4 (Rashad Vaughn - Transfered to NV)

2015-
WI: 3
MN: 2

2009 - 2015
WI: 20
MN: 13

So while Wisconsin has two D1 schools, they also produce nearly twice the D1 talent and much more consistently. Minnesota has a few years with 0 rivals top 150.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Just using the Rivals 150

2009-
WI: 2
MN: 5

2010-
WI:1
MN: 0

2011
WI: 2
MN: 0

2012
WI: 4
MN: 0

2013:
WI: 5
MN: 0

2014-
WI: 3
MN: 3/4 (if Vaughn included)

2015-
WI: 3
MN: 2

2009 - 2015
WI: 20
MN: 11 (Including Vaughn)

So while Wisconsin has two D1 schools, they also produce nearly twice the D1 talent and much more consistently. Minnesota has a lot of years with 0 rivals top 150.

stupid hockey

 

[alchemy2u]

You'll never get me to say I'd rather be Iowa for anything...

As for basektball, I'd rather be in the tournament that matters. A B1G team that makes the NCAA tourney had a better season than one that didn't. And I guarantee Pitino feels the same way. He could sell making the Big Dance to recruits far better than any "success" that comes from the NIT. But I've already made this point in another thread.

Blah, blah, blah, blah..... Get over it already.

If you have ever listen to any of Pitino's press conferences or interview he clearly staters the the objective is not to just make the NCAA, but to get a good seed in the NCAA. But the fact is: WE DID NOT MAKE THE TOURNY!!!!! So if you support the team, and love the game, you should be rooting for the Gopher to win the NIT (also, Pitino's point). I would hate to be your son or daughter that didn't make the A-team, or is playing in the consolation bracket of a tournament. What, do you just tell them to quit because they are not yet good enough? I am sure you would not go to their games because it is just a waste of time.

 

[Mn foliage]

Just using the Rivals 150

2009-
WI: 2
MN: 5

2010-
WI:1
MN: 0

2011
WI: 2
MN: 0

2012
WI: 4
MN: 0

2013:
WI: 5
MN: 0

2014-
WI: 3
MN: 3/4 (if Vaughn included)

2015-
WI: 3
MN: 2

2009 - 2015
WI: 20
MN: 11 (Including Vaughn)

So while Wisconsin has two D1 schools, they also produce nearly twice the D1 talent and much more consistently. Minnesota has a lot of years with 0 rivals top 150.

Nice work with the numbers. Still though they have 4 in state schools to compete with for those 20 players, we have 1 school with no in state competition for the 11 players. If we can get many of these guys going forward we will be much better off.

 

[Myke]

2011
WI: 2
MN: 0

You seem to be leaving out Joe Coleman in 2011. Don't feel like looking through all the classes but there might be more too.

 

[John Galt]

Blah, blah, blah, blah..... Get over it already.

If you have ever listen to any of Pitino's press conferences or interview he clearly staters the the objective is not to just make the NCAA, but to get a good seed in the NCAA. But the fact is: WE DID NOT MAKE THE TOURNY!!!!! So if you support the team, and love the game, you should be rooting for the Gopher to win the NIT (also, Pitino's point). I would hate to be your son or daughter that didn't make the A-team, or is playing in the consolation bracket of a tournament. What, do you just tell them to quit because they are not yet good enough? I am sure you would not go to their games because it is just a waste of time.

Are you really comparing K-12 amateur athletics to the big-time business of D1 basektball? If you think they are at all similar, I apologize as I can see how you would be upset regarding my posts. Have a nice day...

 

[BOUNDOUTPASSDUNK]

A little Minnesota aggressive rather than Minnesota nice would be nice. That does mean facilitiesand a commitment to excellence rather than a concession to get by.

 

[John Galt]

A little Minnesota aggressive rather than Minnesota nice would be nice. That does mean facilitiesand a commitment to excellence rather than a concession to get by.

Too many Minnesotans don't really want to win. Their main motivation is to not be embarrassed and to be competitive. If Minnesota teams reach this threhold, a surprising number of fans will be satisfied.

 

[howeda7]

Too many Minnesotans don't really want to win. Their main motivation is to not be embarrassed and to be competitive. If Minnesota teams reach this threhold, a surprising number of fans will be satisfied.

Minnesotans just want to be Above Average. Anything more than that is showboating. We don't like showboating.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Nice work with the numbers. Still though they have 4 in state schools to compete with for those 20 players, we have 1 school with no in state competition for the 11 players. If we can get many of these guys going forward we will be much better off.

I don't think Wisconsin and Marquette are competing with UW-GB and UW-Milwaukee for recruits, especially not Rivals 150 recruits. "Competing" for recruits would indicate that a player would go to one of those two schools even with a Wisconsin and/or Marquette scholarship offer. I'm assuming that does not happen.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Too many Minnesotans don't really want to win. Their main motivation is to not be embarrassed and to be competitive. If Minnesota teams reach this threhold, a surprising number of fans will be satisfied.

The good thing is what you or I want really has no bearing on the results.

 

[scher215]

You seem to be leaving out Joe Coleman in 2011. Don't feel like looking through all the classes but there might be more too.

You're right. Updated and will double check. My guess is Kyle Washington isn't included either since he left the state Just tried to search for MN and WI quick.

 

[John Galt]

The good thing is what you or I want really has no bearing on the results.

I couldn't disagree more. Expectations of the fan base help to determine how much support the team receives and plays a large role in fundraising. Diehard fans will give, while most others won't. Fundraising determines what is spent for facilities and coaches salaries. Both of these correlate to the caliber of recruit that a program will get, which plays a role in determining the success of a team.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I couldn't disagree more. Expectations of the fan base help to determine how much support the team receives and plays a large role in fundraising. Diehard fans will give, while most others won't. Fundraising determines what is spent for facilities and coaches salaries. Both of these correlate to the caliber of recruit that a program will get, which plays a role in determining the success of a team.

So then your argument should be that we need more "diehards".

A diehard will support the program no matter if they're okay with how the teams is doing or not.

 

[fryguy22]

I couldn't disagree more. Expectations of the fan base help to determine how much support the team receives and plays a large role in fundraising. Diehard fans will give, while most others won't. Fundraising determines what is spent for facilities and coaches salaries. Both of these correlate to the caliber of recruit that a program will get, which plays a role in determining the success of a team.

So you think that fans who get excited about the team's NIT run aren't diehards and aren't going to donate? What are you trying to say here? I'm not sure I even begin to understand your point

 

[BarnBoy]

Just using the Rivals 150

2009-
WI: 2
MN: 5

2010-
WI:1
MN: 0

2011
WI: 2
MN: 1

2012
WI: 4
MN: 0

2013:
WI: 5
MN: 1 (Kyle Washington - Transfered to NC)

2014-
WI: 3
MN: 4 (Rashad Vaughn - Transfered to NV)

2015-
WI: 3
MN: 2

2009 - 2015
WI: 20
MN: 13

So while Wisconsin has two D1 schools, they also produce nearly twice the D1 talent and much more consistently. Minnesota has a few years with 0 rivals top 150.

Not a loaded question.

How many Top 150 guys did MN and WI land during this period?

 

[GophersOnTheRise]

It's going to take 10+ years to get to Wisconsin's level. We'll have to steadily improve under Pitino, get ground broken on a facility in 3-4 years. Complete it in 6 years. And then another 5 years to build a system of 3 and 4* players with at least a 5* on the roster at all times and no weak links (No Mav's, Oto's, etc.).

Don't like that timeline? Jump on another team. We won't be consistently great for a long time if ever. We might make a deep tournament run in the next 10 years. Maybe even a final four, but it won't be as a 1 or 2 seed like Wisconsin.

It would be like a UCONN in 2011 or 2014 if we made the final four.

10+ years? Haha. This isn't football. If Pitino is the man for the job, it will take far less than that.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

10+ years? Haha. This isn't football. If Pitino is the man for the job, it will take far less than that.

We won't have the facilities to compete for 5-6 years so yes, I still believe this is a 10 year job before we are able to be considered in the same breath of Wisconsin.

 

[John Galt]

So then your argument should be that we need more "diehards".

A diehard will support the program no matter if they're okay with how the teams is doing or not.

I'll use Kentucky as my example since they have the most rabid fan base in America. They expect to be in the Final Four every year. If they aren't, they consider it a failed season. Since the expectations of their fans are so high, they are much less likely to have a prolonged period of mediocrity.

Sure they will support their team, but they will take the necessary steps to achieve excellence.

 

[John Galt]

So you think that fans who get excited about the team's NIT run aren't diehards and aren't going to donate? What are you trying to say here? I'm not sure I even begin to understand your point

I'm saying that fan's expectations matter and correlate to team performance.

Kentucky fans are obsessed with basketball, more so than the majority of D-1 schools. Since they place such a high value on the success of their basketball team, chances are they will outperform over the long run.

 

[golfing18now]

I'll use Kentucky as my example since they have the most rabid fan base in America. They expect to be in the Final Four every year. If they aren't, they consider it a failed season. Since the expectations of their fans are so high, they are much less likely to have a prolonged period of mediocrity.

Sure they will support their team, but they will take the necessary steps to achieve excellence.

Other than facilities (which I definitely agree is important for long-term success), what are the "necessary steps" you are referring to? A rabid fan base is nice, but talent and coaching are far more important in my opinion.

 

[John Galt]

Other than facilities (which I definitely agree is important for long-term success), what are the "necessary steps" you are referring to? A rabid fan base is nice, but talent and coaching are far more important in my opinion.

Agree 100%, but they are usually the first step to getting the facilities, coaches, and talent that a program needs to be successful. A rabid fan base will donate, which ensures that its team gets the facilities and coaches that will give it the greatest chance for success. If we had a fan base that had ponied up the money for a practice facility 10 years ago and we were willing to spend $4-5 million per year to get whatever coach we wanted because basketball was that important, chances are the last 10 years would have been dramatically different. Most people will be aghast at the number I just listed and blush because they would never want to be "that" team, but that's the type of commitment I'm talking about. Top talent will come when you have the facilities and coaching staff in place.

 

[vagopher]

You're right. We should shoot to be like Purdue, Tennessee, and/or Washington, because trying to be the best and making lofty goals is stupid. Look at Michigan 5 years ago, Ohio St before Thad Matta and Florida prior to Donovan. None of them were dominant until they found their current coaches. My point was style-of-play wise we should be comparing ourselves and striving to be like these teams vs trying to be like Wisconsin.

Reminds me of Carlton the doorman from an old tv sitcom whose motto was, "Avoid disappointment, set your standards low." As for me, I'm all for lofty goals.

 

[BeaversMN]

We won't have the facilities to compete for 5-6 years so yes, I still believe this is a 10 year job before we are able to be considered in the same breath of Wisconsin.

I'm sick of the facilities talk. Any recruit should be able to come to the U and appreciate what we have there. None of that stuff makes them better players. And as far as not being mentioned in the same breath as Wisconsin? Whats so great about them, as far as I can tell we beat them in the barn and they beat us in their home.. seems pretty even to me.

 

[Sparlimb]

I'm sick of the facilities talk. Any recruit should be able to come to the U and appreciate what we have there. None of that stuff makes them better players. And as far as not being mentioned in the same breath as Wisconsin? Whats so great about them, as far as I can tell we beat them in the barn and they beat us in their home.. seems pretty even to me.

Yeah except they finish in the top 4 of the Big Ten every year, are a threat to win the post season tournament every year and make a nice run in the NCAA's. EVERY YEAR. I salivate at the thought of us being able to do that. I've been watching Gopher Basketball for 30 years and we've never been a consistent NCAA team. Clem used to get us there every 3 or 4 years, but never consistently. I thought that might change after the Final Four season, but we know how that turned out. Facilities do matter and also getting that first super player to commit which will lead to the next one. We need to have a breakout season and have a breakout recruiting class. Basketball can turn around very fast, but I'm hoping to see us become a consistent tournament team some day. I wouldn't be surprised if that takes 5-10 years either.

 

[builtbadgers]

a really wonderful coach can do it in 3-4 years. But what UW has done is sustained success for 15 plus years. Facilities played a role. Hiring the right coaches is number 1