Caledonia native Eli King in portal from Iowa State

[short ornery norwegian]

this thread is already way off topic - so I'll add to it....

the idea of "running off" Fox and Ihnen.

we are talking about two players who have each been injured two years in a row, and went through the hard, thankless process of rehab two years in a row. they haven't left. there is no indication that they are thinking of leaving.

after what they've been through, if Johnson tried to "run them off" it would be a public relations disaster. If it became public - and in the internet and social media era, it would become public - Johnson would look like a total A-hole and the U of MN would get a huge black eye with every HS and AAU coach in the country.

yeah, that should solve all of the program's problems.

 

[Bobek]

I agree to a point, but it's hard to fairly evaluate the guys from the portal when they are playing with freshmen. Cooper likely would look a lot better next year with another offseason with the freshmen. Doubt any replacement turns the ball over less than he did. Battle I believe is easier to replace as I just didn't find him the most athletic.

I look at Penn State and the number of upper classmen they had on the court. That's why they were successful. Men playing boys. Heard Wally Szczerbiak say the other day that he was 210 his freshmen year and was 230 sophomore year. These freshmen should be completely different next year. I don't know what adding another kid the same age (King) does to help when you have Asura coming and can bridge the gap with guys who have played a lot of college basketball in the portal.

Every time I post on the basketball team I just feel it's a bit of a waste and Coyle will be hiring someone new next year.

Ben Johnson will get at least the same five years that Whalen got unless they keep bottoming out the next two years. Bad optics otherwise.

 

[Bobek]

How is expressing a preference towards an experienced guard vs. an unproven one defending Johnson?

If the team is going to get better quickly it isn't going to be with project players..

Of course the really silly part about this whole thread is that people are assuming the Gophers have no interest based on the dad's comment when the reality is that we have no clue what has happened since then or if there is any mutual interest coming from the player.

Maybe Johnson wants King but King has made it clear he doesn't want to go somewhere to be a backup....

No player wants to be a backup. They all think they can play well enough to start. A good coach will tell them they have to earn it. If the player wants guarantees bye bye.

 

[Bobek]

With the number of open spots we have why would you need to run off Ihnen and Fox, two guys who have been in your system for 2 year?

We are all just guessing here but what if a main reason King transferred is that he wants to play significant minutes right now and not ride the bench developing for a few years? We wouldn't be able to guarantee that role here.

I believe King played behind a highly recruited freshman point guard at Iowa St. King would be the only true point guard if he transferred to the UMN. Christy could play off guard and maybe some point. He’d have a chance to play a lot assuming he’s good enough.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

We saw with our eyes for two years. We also know CBJ is a historically bad coach who happens to think Ihnen can now play SG.

He is not running off his roommate.

 

[Holy Man]

Ben Johnson will get at least the same five years that Whalen got unless they keep bottoming out the next two years. Bad optics otherwise.

Canning him after three years might be bad optics, but a trifecta of last place finishes is much worse optics. Worst case scenario for the program is minor improvement on record with no real improvement in fundamentals of growth and consistency, likely as much about regression in other programs than improvement in ours. ( See Penn State next year) In that case we languish in 12th or 13th instead of last and call it improvement.

 

[Oatmeal Savage]

Let's summarize Eli King:

Great athlete out of a MN high school with a good basketball ranking. Goes to Iowa State to play for TJO, which his was his brother's coach for awhile. In his first year he barely gets off the bench. He likely has a long ways to go to develop at the high-major level. He decides to transfer, likely not because of the coach or the quality of the team, but probably because of playing time.

Minnesota is definitely a worse high-major team that has lost three guards that got most of the minutes last year. It still has one that needs to develop at the high-major level (Carrington), has one arriving that has the opportunity to be a major contributor in time (Christie), and one that's coming in a year to hopefully be a long-term pg solution (Azuma). The coach is on the hot seat, so he's likely looking for guards with experience to step in and hopefully improve the team this coming year and maybe help for a year or two after to be a bridge to the youngsters mentioned above. He's likely not interested in using a roster spot on another developmental project.

The results: it takes two to tango and it seems it's not the best fit for either player or school. The best destination for King would be a mid major where he could get playing time and maybe develop into a good college basketball player. The Gophers should focus in the transfer portal on players who can help in the short term and high school recruiting for the long term.

 

[Holy Man]

Let's summarize Eli King:

Great athlete out of a MN high school with a good basketball ranking. Goes to Iowa State to play for TJO, which his was his brother's coach for awhile. In his first year he barely gets off the bench. He likely has a long ways to go to develop at the high-major level. He decides to transfer, likely not because of the coach or the quality of the team, but probably because of playing time.

Minnesota is definitely a worse high-major team that has lost three guards that got most of the minutes last year. It still has one that needs to develop at the high-major level (Carrington), has one arriving that has the opportunity to be a major contributor in time (Christie), and one that's coming in a year to hopefully be a long-term pg solution (Azuma). The coach is on the hot seat, so he's likely looking for guards with experience to step in and hopefully improve the team this coming year and maybe help for a year or two after to be a bridge to the youngsters mentioned above. He's likely not interested in using a roster spot on another developmental project.

The results: it takes two to tango and it seems it's not the best fit for either player or school. The best destination for King would be a mid major where he could get playing time and maybe develop into a good college basketball player. The Gophers should focus in the transfer portal on players who can help in the short term and high school recruiting for the long term.

I think Christie has to be a major contributor much sooner than “in time.”

 

[Bad Gopher]

But we have no idea what the other options are. At this stage of portal recruiting, he has to focus on guys he believes can contribute immediately and are experienced. I have no idea if he can contribute immediately, but playing 30 minutes in a season means he is not experienced. I’m a fan of DJ but his words tell us Eli is developmental and not ready to contribute now. That makes him a low priority recruit.

There's no question he'd come in as a quasi freshman.

 

[BarnBurner]

It isn't just needing to find direct replacements for the guys that left from the portal. Things are going to change and develop with the players that are back as well. They aren't going to be exactly the same as they were this past season next season.

Payne, JOJ, and Carrington all have the potential to be significantly better as sophomores. Betts, Fox, Ihnen, and Christie are wild cards who could provide a boost (we can guess but none of us know what any of them will provide till we see them on the court). And then there is Garcia who played really well overall and was clearly our best player late in the year.

If even just 2 of the 4 wildcards pan out the roster looks a whole lot different before you even add guys from the portal.

Another "IF" from our positive ray of sunshine.

 

[Bobek]

If that’s the case we shouldn’t take, but then he will probably not be a P5 player.

Why run Ihnen and Fox off? Outside of 5 games (two knees ago) in his freshmen year, Ihnen was garbage…most likely to still be garbage. Fox was a player who played D2 and was known for his explosiveness…what happens when you have two knee injuries…?

Let's summarize Eli King:

Great athlete out of a MN high school with a good basketball ranking. Goes to Iowa State to play for TJO, which his was his brother's coach for awhile. In his first year he barely gets off the bench. He likely has a long ways to go to develop at the high-major level. He decides to transfer, likely not because of the coach or the quality of the team, but probably because of playing time.

Minnesota is definitely a worse high-major team that has lost three guards that got most of the minutes last year. It still has one that needs to develop at the high-major level (Carrington), has one arriving that has the opportunity to be a major contributor in time (Christie), and one that's coming in a year to hopefully be a long-term pg solution (Azuma). The coach is on the hot seat, so he's likely looking for guards with experience to step in and hopefully improve the team this coming year and maybe help for a year or two after to be a bridge to the youngsters mentioned above. He's likely not interested in using a roster spot on another developmental project.

The results: it takes two to tango and it seems it's not the best fit for either player or school. The best destination for King would be a mid major where he could get playing time and maybe develop into a good college basketball player. The Gophers should focus in the transfer portal on players who can help in the short term and high school recruiting for the long term.

Good points. Experienced transfers are the priority for sure.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

this thread is already way off topic - so I'll add to it....

the idea of "running off" Fox and Ihnen.

we are talking about two players who have each been injured two years in a row, and went through the hard, thankless process of rehab two years in a row. they haven't left. there is no indication that they are thinking of leaving.

after what they've been through, if Johnson tried to "run them off" it would be a public relations disaster. If it became public - and in the internet and social media era, it would become public - Johnson would look like a total A-hole and the U of MN would get a huge black eye with every HS and AAU coach in the country.

yeah, that should solve all of the program's problems.

So answer me this… let’s forget for a second that we are discussing ihnen and fox and say player X in this example. If player X get injured pre-season, and he isn’t that great…are you allowed to run him out? Added context: he shows up every day, he rehabs, he evidently wants to be there.

When and how is it allowed to run an injured player out if they are willing to rehab and want to be part of the program (whether they are good or bad at basketball…the coach makes the call)?

I’d argue that at getting paid $2m a season CBJ should be able to handle the heat and articulate why he made the decision (if he moves on from fox and ihnen). Wish them luck, talk about how they rehabbed hard / were great leaders while on the bench…etc (rah rah stuff - nothing that actually speaks to production while on the floor).

 

[jovs]

Let's summarize Eli King:

Great athlete out of a MN high school with a good basketball ranking. Goes to Iowa State to play for TJO, which his was his brother's coach for awhile. In his first year he barely gets off the bench. He likely has a long ways to go to develop at the high-major level. He decides to transfer, likely not because of the coach or the quality of the team, but probably because of playing time.

Minnesota is definitely a worse high-major team that has lost three guards that got most of the minutes last year. It still has one that needs to develop at the high-major level (Carrington), has one arriving that has the opportunity to be a major contributor in time (Christie), and one that's coming in a year to hopefully be a long-term pg solution (Azuma). The coach is on the hot seat, so he's likely looking for guards with experience to step in and hopefully improve the team this coming year and maybe help for a year or two after to be a bridge to the youngsters mentioned above. He's likely not interested in using a roster spot on another developmental project.

The results: it takes two to tango and it seems it's not the best fit for either player or school. The best destination for King would be a mid major where he could get playing time and maybe develop into a good college basketball player. The Gophers should focus in the transfer portal on players who can help in the short term and high school recruiting for the long term.

He's got five spots to fill. He's going to find five experienced, athletic guys in the portal that can contribute at the Big Ten level day one then I'll believe pigs can fly. If he doesn't think King will ever be able to contribute and it would be a waist of a scholy for three years then fine otherwise reach out and find out if it is a fit.

 

[MNVCGUY]

He's got five spots to fill. He's going to find five experienced, athletic guys in the portal that can contribute at the Big Ten level day one then I'll believe pigs can fly. If he doesn't think King will ever be able to contribute and it would be a waist of a scholy for three years then fine otherwise reach out and find out if it is a fit.

Willis, Battle, Loewe, Sutherlin, Stephens.......5 transfers that were able to contribute at the Big Ten level day one.....so how do you believe pigs figured out how to fly?

And unless there has been additional confirmation that the Gophers have not shown any interest in King the whole of that is being based on King's dad saying a number of unnamed teams had reached out and that the Gophers weren't one of them.

We have no idea what has happened since then or if there is even any mutual interest between the player and the team.

In the end it really comes down to what King is looking for with his decision to transfer, and as far as I know we have no clue why he decided to leave ISU. But if he is looking for somewhere that will guarantee him a significant role next season the U would not be in a position to do that right now because Johnson is almost certainly looking for guards that are experienced and ready to go.

If King wasn't from Minnesota there would be very few on this board thinking he was the kind of player we should be targeting in the portal. Some might be ok with him being signed as a long term project but there are way too many people here that just fixate on the home state.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Take Caledonia native out of this... And would you even care.....

Yes.

If a top 150 recruit who didn't play much as a true FR on a tournament team was available, i'd be interested. It's the same reason I'm still interested in Tre Holloman.

Do I think Eli King is going to be the savior of the program? No.
Do I think Eli King is going to be a really good player? I doubt it, but I don't know.
Are we going to sign 5 better players than him next year (and at least 3 better guards)? I'd bet my house we don't.

 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

this thread is already way off topic - so I'll add to it....

the idea of "running off" Fox and Ihnen.

we are talking about two players who have each been injured two years in a row, and went through the hard, thankless process of rehab two years in a row. they haven't left. there is no indication that they are thinking of leaving.

after what they've been through, if Johnson tried to "run them off" it would be a public relations disaster. If it became public - and in the internet and social media era, it would become public - Johnson would look like a total A-hole and the U of MN would get a huge black eye with every HS and AAU coach in the country.

yeah, that should solve all of the program's problems.

They were both just named Academic All B10.....the thought of running them off is disgusting.....but that's the kind of guy Wet Blanket guy is......

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Yes.

If a top 150 recruit who didn't play much as a true FR on a tournament team was available, i'd be interested. It's the same reason I'm still interested in Tre Holloman.

Do I think Eli King is going to be the savior of the program? No.
Do I think Eli King is going to be a really good player? I doubt it, but I don't know.
Are we going to sign 5 better players than him next year (and at least 3 better guards)? I'd bet my house we don't.

I'd take Eli King if he was willing to develop as a 4th or 5th guard on the roster. But he could still do that at Iowa St. He's not leaving a better program to sit on the bench at a worse program.

It's a lot like the Kerwin Walton argument last offseason except Walton actually played a lot more at UNC. Walton's just not a good P6 player, and I doubt King is either.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'd take Eli King if he was willing to develop as a 4th or 5th guard on the roster. But he could still do that at Iowa St. He's not leaving a better program to sit on the bench at a worse program.

It's a lot like the Kerwin Walton argument last offseason except Walton actually played a lot more at UNC. Walton's just not a good P6 player, and I doubt King is either.

If I had to bet, I'd probably agree with you that King isn't going to be great.

If we had 1 or 2 spots available (and a guard on the roster), I'd agree with you but I don't think we'll sign 5 players better than him and I'd be shocked if we have 4 guards on our roster better than him.

Even take Walton, he probably plays a ton for us last year and would likely play a ton for us this year.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Yes.

If a top 150 recruit who didn't play much as a true FR on a tournament team was available, i'd be interested. It's the same reason I'm still interested in Tre Holloman.

Do I think Eli King is going to be the savior of the program? No.
Do I think Eli King is going to be a really good player? I doubt it, but I don't know.
Are we going to sign 5 better players than him next year (and at least 3 better guards)? I'd bet my house we don't.

Take King's home state out of the mix and just look at the player.

If we are talking about King as the top transfer guard we are bringing in during this cycle, most fans on here would bash Johnson and say it was a horrible pickup.

On the flip side, if we already have a few other guards committed who look ready to play and King is a flyer as a potential future piece that is very different.

 

[MNVCGUY]

They were both just named Academic All B10.....the thought of running them off is disgusting.....but that's the kind of guy Wet Blanket guy is......

The weird thing about Mr. Blanket is that we have 5 open scholarships and he is still wanting to run guys off. Makes zero sense to run guys off when you already have plenty of open spots on the roster.

If we hit a point where those scholarships are keeping us from bringing in quality players that can help now that would be a different discussion.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Take King's home state out of the mix and just look at the player.

If we are talking about King as the top transfer guard we are bringing in during this cycle, most fans on here would bash Johnson and say it was a horrible pickup.

On the flip side, if we already have a few other guards committed who look ready to play and King is a flyer as a potential future piece that is very different.

I have taken King's home state out of the mix but that argument is just so bizarre to me. Take Payne's home state out of the mix, and he wouldn't be here. Take Garcia's home state out of the mix, and he wouldn't be here. The University of Minnesota is in Minnesota and geography just flat out matters when it comes to recruiting. It always has and it always will.

If there is a top 150 recruit who plays guard that was buried on the depth chart as a FR, I'd be interested. Henley was pretty awful last year and I wish he was still around. We need guards and I really doubt we land 5 players better than King or Henley.

I'm not on here saying that King is stud and this solves our problem, I'm just saying I'd much much rather take a flyer on him than eating the scholarship, giving it to a Daniel Ogele or Charlie Daniels or Jacksn Purcell.

 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

BJ Greenlee is starting at PG for a Final 8 team who has won more than 30 games this year. But he sucked as a freshman so he's trash, right? I'm betting his freshman stats are worse than Kings. My point is that players develop and patience is important and why giving up on guys like Carrington (and King and Holloman) is short sighted.

 

[Oatmeal Savage]

He's got five spots to fill. He's going to find five experienced, athletic guys in the portal that can contribute at the Big Ten level day one then I'll believe pigs can fly. If he doesn't think King will ever be able to contribute and it would be a waist of a scholy for three years then fine otherwise reach out and find out if it is a fit.

Do we need another developmental combo guard from the HS class of 2022, like Carrington?

 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

Do we need another developmental combo guard from the HS class of 2022, like Carrington?

I think we do with Henley leaving.....

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

BJ Greenlee is starting at PG for a Final 8 team who has won more than 30 games this year. But he sucked as a freshman so he's trash, right? I'm betting his freshman stats are worse than Kings. My point is that players develop and patience is important and why giving up on guys like Carrington (and King and Holloman) is short sighted.

Greenlee has also been playing in Conference USA, and his playing time has decreased as FAU has gotten better. He's averaging 7 points and 2 assists per game this season.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I have taken King's home state out of the mix but that argument is just so bizarre to me. Take Payne's home state out of the mix, and he wouldn't be here. Take Garcia's home state out of the mix, and he wouldn't be here. The University of Minnesota is in Minnesota and geography just flat out matters when it comes to recruiting. It always has and it always will.

If there is a top 150 recruit who plays guard that was buried on the depth chart as a FR, I'd be interested. Henley was pretty awful last year and I wish he was still around. We need guards and I really doubt we land 5 players better than King or Henley.

I'm not on here saying that King is stud and this solves our problem, I'm just saying I'd much much rather take a flyer on him than eating the scholarship, giving it to a Daniel Ogele or Charlie Daniels or Jacksn Purcell.

We are on the same page in terms of interest in a player like King.

If he wants to come here and is willing to take on that kind of role....great. But he shouldn't be viewed as a priority. The priority needs to be guys that are ready to come in and play right away.

 

[cjbfbp]

Canning him after three years might be bad optics, but a trifecta of last place finishes is much worse optics.

Firing a coach after three losing seasons at least would be consistent with the treatment Iowa gave to Todd Lickliter and Rutgers gave to Eddie Jordan so I wouldn't say that's unfair. Nebraska didn't fire Hoiberg after three losing seasons and still didn't fire him after a fourth season of only a .500 record but maybe their big payouts to multiple football coaches had something to do with that.

I don't think any Big Ten BB coach in recent memory has been fired after two seasons for performance reasons.

 

[BarnBurner]

Take King's home state out of the mix and just look at the player.

If we are talking about King as the top transfer guard we are bringing in during this cycle, most fans on here would bash Johnson and say it was a horrible pickup.

On the flip side, if we already have a few other guards committed who look ready to play and King is a flyer as a potential future piece that is very different.

If.

 

[USAF]

I don't think any Big Ten BB coach in recent memory has been fired after two seasons for performance reasons.

TF does that matter?

I completely disagree with the proposal Johnson "deserves" another year.

If you believe he's got this going in the right direction, OK. I get that. I disagree, but that'd be a reason to retain him.

But "we can't fire him because he DESERVES the same time as Todd Lickliter?"

No. He doesn't "deserve" more time. He deserves money. Not more time.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

They were both just named Academic All B10.....the thought of running them off is disgusting.....but that's the kind of guy Wet Blanket guy is......

Who cares about academic all big ten. They have received 4 years of college for free at this point. If you are taking the angle of education, that should be enough for them. Wake up, P5 schools are essentially pro sports now. Having a great GPA for a player is nice, but it doesn't mean anything.

There are also a lot of high GPAs in the engineering school. They produce almost the same amount on the floor as Fox and Ihnen - maybe we should take up scholarships on those high GPA people.