Caledonia native Eli King in portal from Iowa State

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MNVCGUY said:
Willis, Battle, Loewe, Sutherlin, Stephens.......5 transfers that were able to contribute at the Big Ten level day one.....so how do you believe pigs figured out how to fly?

And unless there has been additional confirmation that the Gophers have not shown any interest in King the whole of that is being based on King's dad saying a number of unnamed teams had reached out and that the Gophers weren't one of them.

We have no idea what has happened since then or if there is even any mutual interest between the player and the team.

In the end it really comes down to what King is looking for with his decision to transfer, and as far as I know we have no clue why he decided to leave ISU. But if he is looking for somewhere that will guarantee him a significant role next season the U would not be in a position to do that right now because Johnson is almost certainly looking for guards that are experienced and ready to go.

If King wasn't from Minnesota there would be very few on this board thinking he was the kind of player we should be targeting in the portal. Some might be ok with him being signed as a long term project but there are way too many people here that just fixate on the home state.
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Contribute, yes. Contribute to winning games, not so much.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I have taken King's home state out of the mix but that argument is just so bizarre to me. Take Payne's home state out of the mix, and he wouldn't be here. Take Garcia's home state out of the mix, and he wouldn't be here. The University of Minnesota is in Minnesota and geography just flat out matters when it comes to recruiting. It always has and it always will.

If there is a top 150 recruit who plays guard that was buried on the depth chart as a FR, I'd be interested. Henley was pretty awful last year and I wish he was still around. We need guards and I really doubt we land 5 players better than King or Henley.

I'm not on here saying that King is stud and this solves our problem, I'm just saying I'd much much rather take a flyer on him than eating the scholarship, giving it to a Daniel Ogele or Charlie Daniels or Jacksn Purcell.
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I'd take the unknown of King versus the known of Carrington right now, sign me up.
 


Bobek said:
Ben Johnson will get at least the same five years that Whalen got unless they keep bottoming out the next two years. Bad optics otherwise.
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He won't because to pressure will be to fire after next season if they finish bottom 4 again. Johnson was an assist for many years and should have been better at building a program than Whalen. He won't get 5 years. Next year has to be significantly better.
 




Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Who cares about academic all big ten. They have received 4 years of college for free at this point. If you are taking the angle of education, that should be enough for them. Wake up, P5 schools are essentially pro sports now. Having a great GPA for a player is nice, but it doesn't mean anything.

There are also a lot of high GPAs in the engineering school. They produce almost the same amount on the floor as Fox and Ihnen - maybe we should take up scholarships on those high GPA people.
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LOL.....so 2 KIDS that commit to the U (one from 1/2 way across the world) suffer injuries playing the sport (representing the U) rehab relentlessly, are great teammates, never in trouble, and get great grades should be run off? This isn't pro sports. It's just not.

Did any of those engineering students get hurt playing engineering while representing the U? Dumbest analogy ever.

I challenge you to find an example of a school that literally cut a player because of injury. And don't give me some crap about they were encouraged to leave. You literally want to cut them. Place them on waivers like an NBA team.

I'll wait.
 

Bobek said:
Ben Johnson will get at least the same five years that Whalen got unless they keep bottoming out the next two years. Bad optics otherwise.
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Zero chance Ben gets as much leeway as Whalen. Not only did Whalen finish above .500 her first two seasons but she was literally the best player ever to come from the WBB program and LOVED by everyone.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yes.

If a top 150 recruit who didn't play much as a true FR on a tournament team was available, i'd be interested. It's the same reason I'm still interested in Tre Holloman.

Do I think Eli King is going to be the savior of the program? No.
Do I think Eli King is going to be a really good player? I doubt it, but I don't know.
Are we going to sign 5 better players than him next year (and at least 3 better guards)? I'd bet my house we don't.
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Bob.. 95% of the people here wouldn't know whom either of these kids were if they were not from here... The reason Tony tweeted this is because he is from MN. The reason you all want him is because you know.of him.. why do.you know.of him... Because people got to follow them.all through high school.. this is totally a case of prodigal MN son....
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Who cares about academic all big ten. They have received 4 years of college for free at this point. If you are taking the angle of education, that should be enough for them. Wake up, P5 schools are essentially pro sports now. Having a great GPA for a player is nice, but it doesn't mean anything.

There are also a lot of high GPAs in the engineering school. They produce almost the same amount on the floor as Fox and Ihnen - maybe we should take up scholarships on those high GPA people.
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Hey, newsflash: You're not in charge!

Academics apparently does matter to this university. That why Coyle specifically mentioned it as one of the "Five Pillars" at a recent press conference. Fleck regularly touts the academic progress of the football team.

Prior to the recent team departures (including the de-commit) I was of the opinion that Fox didn't deserve a third year of an athletic scholarship because no grad transfer should expect that. With the departures and having at least 4 available scholarships, I don't see the point of forcing out anyone who is still here.
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
BJ Greenlee is starting at PG for a Final 8 team who has won more than 30 games this year. But he sucked as a freshman so he's trash, right? I'm betting his freshman stats are worse than Kings. My point is that players develop and patience is important and why giving up on guys like Carrington (and King and Holloman) is short sighted.
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Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There are probably multiple times more examples of players leaving big time programs after a year or two of minimal PT that don't end up being much, even at lower level schools.

If you are a hiring manager at a big-time corporation, you can hire a) promising prospects right out of school to learn on the job and eventually produce, b) people who have experience and have shown they can do the job, but perhaps at a smaller company, or c) people who were promising prospects when in school, but did not gain much experience at their first company due to their colleagues getting most of the assignments (perhaps at a very successful company).

That's an oversimplification, of course, but can you understand why the talent pool in b is preferred over c? It doesn't mean that those in the c pool won't become successful, but it's a riskier proposition, and practically equivalent to the a pool.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
He won't because to pressure will be to fire after next season if they finish bottom 4 again. Johnson was an assist for many years and should have been better at building a program than Whalen. He won't get 5 years. Next year has to be significantly better.
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i'd be surprised if CBJ doesn't get at least 5 years as long as there is no drama and grades and graduations look good. it appears to me that the U Admin values wins less than most the fans
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
LOL.....so 2 KIDS that commit to the U (one from 1/2 way across the world) suffer injuries playing the sport (representing the U) rehab relentlessly, are great teammates, never in trouble, and get great grades should be run off? This isn't pro sports. It's just not.

Did any of those engineering students get hurt playing engineering while representing the U? Dumbest analogy ever.

I challenge you to find an example of a school that literally cut a player because of injury. And don't give me some crap about they were encouraged to leave. You literally want to cut them. Place them on waivers like an NBA team.

I'll wait.
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They are not being told to never play basketball again, that is where you are mistaking my argument. I am told that they can go to another program if they want to keep playing as their time at the U should be over.

I'm sure there are examples if you just look at teams that have new coaches. I bet Rick Pitino is going to tell kids who are good students, have good grades...etc, that they are getting cut. Same at other schools across the country. Roster turnover is a real thing. The portal has made this. If this was pre-portal it would be a harder discussion.

But, my stance is more about I firmly believe their should be an age limit to collegiate athletics. You get 4 years of eligibility, injuries don't give you extra years. Memphis had a 26 year old playing college basketball, it's crazy. Nebraska had a 25 year old playing college basketball.

NIL is transforming college basketball into careers for these players. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see more and more 23-25 year old players who continually transfer and stay in college for NIL money (granted there would most likely need to be an injury year in there somewhere) versus graduating at 22 and moving to the real world.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
My hope is for a full roster and health so Ben can be judged on a fair year 3. However, they have to get out of the bottom 4 next year.
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Neb and WI were 11th and 12th in the BIG this year. 9-11 in conference play. If Ben reaches that record next season he will not only get a 4th year, he will get at least 5 and maybe 6.
 

Big Dawg said:
Neb and WI were 11th and 12th in the BIG this year. 9-11 in conference play. If Ben reaches that record next season he will not only get a 4th year, he will get at least 5 and maybe 6.
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Likely as that is significant and possibly puts you on the bubble. That's where Coyle will have a feel if internally things are better. I'd take that as progress and if 90% of those wins are at home, that will help. Being 11th or 12th and going 5-15 won't be helpful.
 

If I was Ben, Ihnen and Fox would be welcome to stay. I would tell that that they are #12 and #13 on the depth chart. Through no fault of their own, they have contributed zero to the Gophers on court the past 2 seasons. Now if for some stroke of luck they magically are healthy and are good enough to be in the starting 5 or top 8-9 contributors then fine. All is well. The problem Ben had /has is that he depended on them and then they got hurt. A coach needs to recruit ALL scholly's because, yes, players get hurt. From football-pair and a spare. A team needs to be literally 3-4 deep at each position. And, NO, that doesn't mean 20 players for 5 spots. Many players can be a back up at a secondary position. I wouldn't OFFER King right now but I would at least reach out and tell him we are interested.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Likely as that is significant and possibly puts you on the bubble. That's where Coyle will have a feel if internally things are better. I'd take that as progress and if 90% of those wins are at home, that will help. Being 11th or 12th and going 5-15 won't be helpful.
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Concur with that comment with the addition of saying there is a lot more to consider than W-L. If we go 0-20 in the BIG and all 20 L's are on buzzer beaters or by 3-4 points then I can live with that. If we go 8-12 and our 12 L's are all blow out 35 point losses then maybe we need to move on from Ben. All W's and L's are not created equal.
 

This thread has become confusing. King not getting major minutes at Iowa State isn’t an indictment on his talent. If he was here he would have gotten playing time. People wanted Eli over Braeden coming out of high school & he was the superior player throughout their high school career. Outside of Pharrell none of our freshmen would have played at Iowa St
 

Big Dawg said:
If I was Ben, Ihnen and Fox would be welcome to stay. I would tell that that they are #12 and #13 on the depth chart. Through no fault of their own, they have contributed zero to the Gophers on court the past 2 seasons. Now if for some stroke of luck they magically are healthy and are good enough to be in the starting 5 or top 8-9 contributors then fine. All is well. The problem Ben had /has is that he depended on them and then they got hurt. A coach needs to recruit ALL scholly's because, yes, players get hurt. From football-pair and a spare. A team needs to be literally 3-4 deep at each position. And, NO, that doesn't mean 20 players for 5 spots. Many players can be a back up at a secondary position. I wouldn't OFFER King right now but I would at least reach out and tell him we are interested.
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You don't have to tell them their 12th and 13th. All playing time should be earned. I hope Ben has learned the "can't keep 13 guys happy so only use 11 scholarships" thing is the wrong way to look at it. It may be true, but you can't control who #12 and #13 are, or who's unhappy. Fill your scholarships and let things play out.
 

GopherPlaya said:
This thread has become confusing. King not getting major minutes at Iowa State isn’t an indictment on his talent. If he was here he would have gotten playing time. People wanted Eli over Braeden coming out of high school & he was the superior player throughout their high school career. Outside of Pharrell none of our freshmen would have played at Iowa St
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100% spot on
 

howeda7 said:
You don't have to tell them their 12th and 13th. All playing time should be earned. I hope Ben has learned the "can't keep 13 guys happy so only use 11 scholarships" thing is the wrong way to look at it. It may be true, but you can't control who #12 and #13 are, or who's unhappy. Fill your scholarships and let things play out.
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Why didn’t Ben use all the scholarships?
 


howeda7 said:
You don't have to tell them their 12th and 13th. All playing time should be earned. I hope Ben has learned the "can't keep 13 guys happy so only use 11 scholarships" thing is the wrong way to look at it. It may be true, but you can't control who #12 and #13 are, or who's unhappy. Fill your scholarships and let things play out.
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Well, yes. Of course. What I meant to say is, to Ben, he has to, in his head, be thinking they are the 12th and 13th. He can't be counting on them (or anyone for that matter). He should recruit the 13 absolute best payers he can and play the 5-9 that give the Gophers the best chance of winning games.
 

howeda7 said:
I hope Ben has learned the "can't keep 13 guys happy so only use 11 scholarships" thing is the wrong way to look at it.
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I wonder if someone bothered to tell him early in his tenure that no coach has ever been fired because the 12th man on the team wasn't happy but many coaches have been fired due to poor performance caused in part by lack of quality depth.
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
BJ Greenlee is starting at PG for a Final 8 team who has won more than 30 games this year. But he sucked as a freshman so he's trash, right? I'm betting his freshman stats are worse than Kings. My point is that players develop and patience is important and why giving up on guys like Carrington (and King and Holloman) is short sighted.
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But then what would all the recruiting experts ponder 🤔?
 

cjbfbp said:
The problem in that season wasn't with those five. The problem was that we had a terrible front court with the best player being a physically limited Curry.
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The problem was not signing players with better skills. All of them.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Yes.

If a top 150 recruit who didn't play much as a true FR on a tournament team was available, i'd be interested. It's the same reason I'm still interested in Tre Holloman.

Do I think Eli King is going to be the savior of the program? No.
Do I think Eli King is going to be a really good player? I doubt it, but I don't know.
Are we going to sign 5 better players than him next year (and at least 3 better guards)? I'd bet my house we don't.
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Where do live? It might be an interesting bet. Any mold? 😂
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
Bob.. 95% of the people here wouldn't know whom either of these kids were if they were not from here... The reason Tony tweeted this is because he is from MN. The reason you all want him is because you know.of him.. why do.you know.of him... Because people got to follow them.all through high school.. this is totally a case of prodigal MN son....
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I'm not saying we would have known who they were. I don't want Eli King any more than I would want ANY guard in the portal who was a top 150 recruit the previous season.

There are tons of guys in the portal that no one on this board would have any idea who they were who would help us. I had no idea who Noah Fernandes was from UMASS prior to reading about him being in the portal.

You all are mistaking someone saying that adding a guy like King would be a no-brainer for me declaring he is really good. I don't think he's really good but I have zero faith that we will add 5 players better than him in the portal.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
So answer me this… let’s forget for a second that we are discussing ihnen and fox and say player X in this example. If player X get injured pre-season, and he isn’t that great…are you allowed to run him out? Added context: he shows up every day, he rehabs, he evidently wants to be there.

When and how is it allowed to run an injured player out if they are willing to rehab and want to be part of the program (whether they are good or bad at basketball…the coach makes the call)?

I’d argue that at getting paid $2m a season CBJ should be able to handle the heat and articulate why he made the decision (if he moves on from fox and ihnen). Wish them luck, talk about how they rehabbed hard / were great leaders while on the bench…etc (rah rah stuff - nothing that actually speaks to production while on the floor).
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I am categorically opposed to "running off" any player for any reason - except for some off-court violation or criminal act of sufficient seriousness to warrant their dismissal.

commitment goes both ways - the player commits to the program and the program commits to the player.

If a coach offers a scholarship to a player who turns out to be not as good as expected, then the coach has to live with the consequences of his decision. the coach does not get a mulligan. you play the shot where it lies.
 

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