Brewster the Recruiter

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Pewterschmidt

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Anyone also less than thrilled with the current state of the '10 recruiting class? If Brewster has anything to hang his hat on (which isn't much), it's that his '08 and '09 classes brought in a good number of highly thought of recruits (especially compared to Mason). From day 1, he's billed himself as "The Recruiter". However, I don't like what I'm seeing so far in this current class.

I don't really give 2 pieces of dung about star ratings. I care more about offers. I'd rather have a 3 star recruit with offers from a half dozed quality BCS programs than a 4 star recruit with only a couple of offers. Personally, I think coaches are better evaluators of talent that whoever runs Rivals or Scout. If you're a star rating person, this is the lowest average star rating of any Brewster class. Still, that means little to me.

(disclaimer...I know some recruits have a less than stellar offer list because of their very solid committment to their school...example Jimmy Gjere. I've taken someone like him into consideration. Gjere is in a completely different class compared to someone like Willie Tatum who had several chances to gain quality offers before his committment to the Gophs. Undoubtedly, Gjere's offer list would be quite impressive if he were uncommitted. He's universally perceived as a top tier recruit. Regardless, I consider his offer from Wisconsin a quality one.)

While browsing the current list of verbals compared to Brew's previous 2 classes, this one sticks out as being much more Mason-like.

My reasoning:

14 of 22 current verbals (excluding kicker Kip Smith because he's as good as gone to UCLA) either have no other offer from a BCS school or just 1 other offer from a less than spectacular BCS school:

Recruits with no other BCS offer:
Josh Allen
Zach Epping
Mark Leinkiewitz
Christyn Lewis
JD Pride
Jonathan Ragoo - read his Miami offer is bogus. Only other offer then his Hamilton
Willie Tatum
Josh Taueafua
Allen Veazie

Recruits with only 1 BCS offer from a blah school
Tyrone Bouie - Purdue
Matt Eggen - Indiana
Antonie Lewis - Purdue
Dwayne Mitchell - Duke
Doral Willis - Wake Forest

That's far from impressive.

I went back and looked at the previous 2 classes and 6 of 20 in '09 were Mason-like while 7 of 27 in '08 fit that description. Compare that to 14 of 22 this year and that's a downward trend.

(another disclaimer...of course some of the 14 names listed above will pan out and have good to great college careers. There's a Eslinger in there somewhere.)

However, if we're to judge his recruiting, which many of his big backers have used to lift up his profile, then we need to not blindly accept that this year's class is up to par. Again, Brewster's biggest selling point left his is recruiting ability. I'm far from impressed with the current class that only has a handful of spots left to fill.

What are the reasons? Negative recruiting against Brew's future? Product of the state of the program? Mixture of both?
 

I think everyone is in pretty wide agreement that on paper, this class isn't as impressive as the last two (as of now). Bu I'd venture a guess that if you went back and found this information for our last, say, 20 recruiting classes, this year would measure up favorably in whichever metric you prefer.
 

Recruiting is Overrated!

Brewster claims to be a great recruiter, but that is really not even important. Minnesota will never load up with 4 or 5 star recruits. It is coaching, desire and discipline that matters. Brewster is terriable at all three. I would rather have a motivated well coached team like the JackRabits than a bunch of bremadonas that that could careless.
 

gopher1956 said:
Brewster claims to be a great recruiter, but that is really not even important. Minnesota will never load up with 4 or 5 star recruits. It is coaching, desire and discipline that matters. Brewster is terriable at all three. I would rather have a motivated well coached team like the JackRabits than a bunch of bremadonas that that could careless.
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1- seriously? bremadonas??

2- While coaching obviously matters, you do need both. While we may never recruit with OSU or Michigan, it will be nice when we can finally match wisconsin and iowa for talent on the field. Until then (and that should start being the case in the next year or so) the best we could hope for is what we got under Mason.
 

gopher1956 said:
Brewster claims to be a great recruiter, but that is really not even important. Minnesota will never load up with 4 or 5 star recruits. It is coaching, desire and discipline that matters. Brewster is terriable at all three. I would rather have a motivated well coached team like the JackRabits than a bunch of bremadonas that that could careless.
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In just a short period of time, you have become, easily, the worst poster on GopherHole. And it's not even close.

I tried to contemplate how much you suck, but it made my head hurt trying to comprehend something so vast. Then I stopped.
 


gopher1956 said:
Brewster claims to be a great recruiter, but that is really not even important. Minnesota will never load up with 4 or 5 star recruits. It is coaching, desire and discipline that matters. Brewster is terriable at all three. I would rather have a motivated well coached team like the JackRabits than a bunch of bremadonas that that could careless.
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first, whats a "bremadona"? The jackrabbits are a good team. sure they are fcs but they are one of the best fcs teams! and we are a very agverage team, with 6 wins! pretty much right at par with what we expected going into this season. i think your post should start with;

"I hate Brewster and positivity"

then go on to try to make us believe you know more about coaching and recruiting then the guy who has done a damn good job on the recruiting end. coaching is still suspect but we are still moving in a positive direction. maybe its fans like yourself who boo after the first incomplete pass of every game that turn kids and their parents off to our fan base when it comes to recruiting? i think this class is designed for pure depth reasons. we are not usc or florida, we arent ohio st, we wont get all of the 3,4,5 star kids with large offer lists! we may get a handful, but depth is very very important and i like this class for that reason
 

gopher1956 said:
Brewster claims to be a great recruiter, but that is really not even important. Minnesota will never load up with 4 or 5 star recruits. It is coaching, desire and discipline that matters. Brewster is terriable at all three. I would rather have a motivated well coached team like the JackRabits than a bunch of bremadonas that that could careless.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say Brewster lacks desire. He's a high energy person that wants the same thing for his players. As for the other 2 (coaching and discipline), it's hard to argue with you.

I guess one of the points of my thread was to show that his #1 quality seems to be trending downward. I keep hearing about how all of this underclassman talent is waiting in the wings to explode on the scene. I'm of the belief that talent is as important as coaching. However, what happens if the talent dries up? If Brewster can't coach up or progress already talented players, what happens when the talent decreases?

The other point is to figure out the cause? If Brewster sold the future of the program to his previous classes and that future is certainly in doubt (either he can't deliver on what he sold or he'll be gone before they set foot on campus), what does that mean for the future classes? If I sell that my program is going places and it's been 3 years and it's gone nowhere, have I lost my key selling point? I'm concerned that Brewster may have lost many of his selling points.
 

I really look at this class in a different light.
This is a depth class, loading up on solid prospects at key positions(OL, RB, DB)
I also think most of this years class will RS, exceptions might be Hill/Hawkins/maybe a DT/1-2 DB's
This isn't a high impact class for next year, which was what the last 2 were. We needed to load up on talent right away(see JUCOS, highly rated prospects that came here to play right away or at a position they preferred)
Think back to last year all the guys who should have redshirted but couldn't due to lack of depth.
I think there are some gems in this class, but mostly this class's purpose is to fill the coffers with quality linemen, runningbacks, linebackers and DB's for the next several years' teams.
 




At least these players have some descent rankings. That is a whole lot better then the way it use to be.
 

1) When I do follow recruiting, I look at it the same way Pewter has laid out.

2) I don't buy the argument that we are red-shirting players who could have made the difference between wins and losses. The argument makes no sense on its face, and no coach in Brewster's position does this. He was all-in this year, believe me.
 

Ole said:
I really look at this class in a different light.
This is a depth class, loading up on solid prospects at key positions(OL, RB, DB)
I also think most of this years class will RS, exceptions might be Hill/Hawkins/maybe a DT/1-2 DB's
This isn't a high impact class for next year, which was what the last 2 were. We needed to load up on talent right away(see JUCOS, highly rated prospects that came here to play right away or at a position they preferred)
Think back to last year all the guys who should have redshirted but couldn't due to lack of depth.
I think there are some gems in this class, but mostly this class's purpose is to fill the coffers with quality linemen, runningbacks, linebackers and DB's for the next several years' teams.
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Is it fair to say that your post infers that because of the quality of talent brought in with the previous 2 classes that selling immediate playing time to recruits this year was a tough sell?

I'd have to disagree. Other than QB, there's playing time to be had next year. A quality recruit can step in a start or see significant minutes at every position next year other than QB. There going to be a ton of turnover within the starting ranks because of graduation and it's absolutely no guarantee the players lined up behind them are ready to step in a take the spot. Even if they do, it opens up PT as a primary backup.

I went thru every position and playing time is hardly guaranteed for anyone, which should be a big selling point for Brewster and this class.

We have openings at:

RB: Whaley and Bennett will see the field but there's a desperate need for a bruiser to pound the middle and get the short yardage plays.

WR: Green, Stoudermire, Allen, and McKnight seem to be locked in. However, where's the height besides McKnight? There's a need for a better downfield threat. Green, Stoudermire, and Allen all seem perfect for the slot but there's PT to be had here.

TE: Way too obvious to state the flux at this position

OL: Ditto...though this is one position where it's difficult for a HS kid to step in a play right away because physical maturity is needed but there are exceptions (reading this Henderson???)

DE: Lose both starters plus one backup. Nothing has been promised to Garin or KGM. Wilhite and Jacobs appear to be locked in the rotation but teams need at least 4 DEs every game.

DT: Who backs up Edwards or Kirksey? Jacques? Definitely could see some PT.

LB: There's some good depth here. Like what I'm seeing at this position but an impact freshman could still come in and play right away because we know nothing about Maresh or Reeves. That freshman many not start but they could easily see the field

CB: Carter then who? Serious PT available.

S: We return alot but do we love what we're returning? Not in desperate shape for a newcomer to step in but again, an impact freshman could easily step into the rotation.

In all, it's not like we'll have no competition for playing time this spring or fall. In fact, there will be more competition compared to last year. I can't buy the argument (if indeed that's what you're making) that the lack of immediately available playing time is a reason why this class isn't what we hoped for.
 

can we please wait until the class has been filled out and enrolled before we make judgments on it?
 



First off, Ragoo's offer was legitimate, Miami wanted to take five offensive lineman. Ragoo was one of seven offers, when two other recruits verbeled early, Miami pulled Ragoo's offer to conserve scholarships for higher rated players. It doesn't hurt that he comes from one top football factories in Miami

I see Willis as a niche player as a true Nose Tackle. He might not be as highly rated as other Defensive Tackles but fits our system. He has the added advantage of coming from a school that averages six to eight Div. 1 recruits a year.

Bouie comes from a school that averages six to eight Div 1 players a year.

I see Brewster a laying the ground work for several recruiting pipelines, S. Florida, Louisiana and Texas. In Texas he's shifting his focus from Dallas to Houston. Another part of his plan seems to be concentrating on the second tier schools and identifying talent early. Doing this Brewster seems to be getting in the door first and establishing a relationship early. IMHO opinion I think it's smart even if it doesn't result in a recruiting class with eye popping offer lists. We'll see what kind of talent evaluators the staff is.
 


They certainly can identify D-linemen ... they deserve props for Kirksey and Edwards ... both guys should be solid players for the next couple years.
 

A top thirty class for a #65 ranked team is pretty damn good no matter how you look at it.
 

nsmike said:
First off, Ragoo's offer was legitimate, Miami wanted to take five offensive lineman. Ragoo was one of seven offers, when two other recruits verbeled early, Miami pulled Ragoo's offer to conserve scholarships for higher rated players. It doesn't hurt that he comes from one top football factories in Miami

I see Willis as a niche player as a true Nose Tackle. He might not be as highly rated as other Defensive Tackles but fits our system. He has the added advantage of coming from a school that averages six to eight Div. 1 recruits a year.

Bouie comes from a school that averages six to eight Div 1 players a year.

I see Brewster a laying the ground work for several recruiting pipelines, S. Florida, Louisiana and Texas. In Texas he's shifting his focus from Dallas to Houston. Another part of his plan seems to be concentrating on the second tier schools and identifying talent early. Doing this Brewster seems to be getting in the door first and establishing a relationship early. IMHO opinion I think it's smart even if it doesn't result in a recruiting class with eye popping offer lists. We'll see what kind of talent evaluators the staff is.
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Very smart analysis,
I also think there are some players in this class that have been offered due to relationships that Brewster has been working on building, the Hightower hire is the reason behind the Dallas to Houston shift. Lewis has been in Louisiana and has some very unheralded but intriguing prospects lined up. Boiue, Chr. Lewis, Willis, Hill, and Hawkins are the impact guys for next year. A few others might see special teams, but I expect most to RS. It's not that there isn't playing time offered, it's that this is a big class that's being used to load up on depth, that said, I'm sure the mantra of all the recruiters is, if you show up and are better than the guy ahead of you, you'll play. So far, less athletic yet more experienced guys have won those battles(Mannion/Lawrence, Tripplett/Cooper, Moen/Wilhite or Jacobs, Theret/Dandridge) Big Ten football requires more than just speed or quicks, it requires preparation skills and mental savvy. As the kids get savvy, the team will get better, mark my words.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
You can't talk about a recruiting class until all LOIs have been signed or something?
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dude? i said let's not pass judgments.

there is a long way to go before the class rounds out and it could look very different next summer.
 

Schnoodler said:
A top thirty class for a #65 ranked team is pretty damn good no matter how you look at it.
Click to expand...

I think it does matter how you look at it...and Rival's rating system is messed up, much less their team rankings.

On Rivals right now, the Gophs are listed as having the #28 class in the country. Certainly at face value it's nothing to be ashamed about. However, if you dig a bit deeper, it's not nearly what it appears to be.

The average star rating is 2.74 for the Gophers. That ranks them #53, 25 spots below their current slot. What the Gophers have going for them is quantity, not quality. To me, having 23 committments yet being in the #53 position for average star rating seems like a missed opportunity to me.

I personally think Rivals team ranking system is incredibly flawed. Oklahoma St and Ohio St are currently tied for 19th in the rankings. Oklahoma St has 25 verbals while Ohio St has only 13. The quality of Ohio St's 13 is vastly superior to Oklahoma St's top 13 recruits. Why should they be ranked the same? Just because Oklahoma St has more scholarships available? If anything, I'd dock a team like Oklahoma St in the rankings because they're using a ton of scholarships on medicore (perceived) players.

If I based my recruiting opinion on stars, I certainly expect Brewster to have a class where the average star ranking for the player is better than 53rd in the country.

Something's different compared to previous Brewster classes.
 

Pewterschmidt said:
Anyone also less than thrilled with the current state of the '10 recruiting class? If Brewster has anything to hang his hat on (which isn't much), it's that his '08 and '09 classes brought in a good number of highly thought of recruits (especially compared to Mason). From day 1, he's billed himself as "The Recruiter". However, I don't like what I'm seeing so far in this current class.

I don't really give 2 pieces of dung about star ratings. I care more about offers. I'd rather have a 3 star recruit with offers from a half dozed quality BCS programs than a 4 star recruit with only a couple of offers. Personally, I think coaches are better evaluators of talent that whoever runs Rivals or Scout. If you're a star rating person, this is the lowest average star rating of any Brewster class. Still, that means little to me.

(disclaimer...I know some recruits have a less than stellar offer list because of their very solid committment to their school...example Jimmy Gjere. I've taken someone like him into consideration. Gjere is in a completely different class compared to someone like Willie Tatum who had several chances to gain quality offers before his committment to the Gophs. Undoubtedly, Gjere's offer list would be quite impressive if he were uncommitted. He's universally perceived as a top tier recruit. Regardless, I consider his offer from Wisconsin a quality one.)

While browsing the current list of verbals compared to Brew's previous 2 classes, this one sticks out as being much more Mason-like.

My reasoning:

14 of 22 current verbals (excluding kicker Kip Smith because he's as good as gone to UCLA) either have no other offer from a BCS school or just 1 other offer from a less than spectacular BCS school:

Recruits with no other BCS offer:
Josh Allen
Zach Epping
Mark Leinkiewitz
Christyn Lewis
JD Pride
Jonathan Ragoo - read his Miami offer is bogus. Only other offer then his Hamilton
Willie Tatum
Josh Taueafua
Allen Veazie

Recruits with only 1 BCS offer from a blah school
Tyrone Bouie - Purdue
Matt Eggen - Indiana
Antonie Lewis - Purdue
Dwayne Mitchell - Duke
Doral Willis - Wake Forest

That's far from impressive.

I went back and looked at the previous 2 classes and 6 of 20 in '09 were Mason-like while 7 of 27 in '08 fit that description. Compare that to 14 of 22 this year and that's a downward trend.

(another disclaimer...of course some of the 14 names listed above will pan out and have good to great college careers. There's a Eslinger in there somewhere.)

However, if we're to judge his recruiting, which many of his big backers have used to lift up his profile, then we need to not blindly accept that this year's class is up to par. Again, Brewster's biggest selling point left his is recruiting ability. I'm far from impressed with the current class that only has a handful of spots left to fill.

What are the reasons? Negative recruiting against Brew's future? Product of the state of the program? Mixture of both?
Click to expand...

And you have vast knowledge and understanding of recruiting how? Reading blogs? Your football background is what? Rivals currently has us rated #28 in the nation and 5th in the Big Ten behind PSU, tOSU, Michigan and Iowa. And that is bad how?
 

again Recruiting is NOT that important

It is coaching, motivation, and discipline - look at the Jackrabits.
 

Agreed

I agree, thus far the class is mediocre.

However, one big offensive lineman deciding to stay home will make this a banner recruiting year and definitely give me a reason to feel optimistic heading into the future.

Gray at QB...
Huff at RB...
Allen/McKnight/Stoudermire with speed at WR
Cooper/Tinsley/Maresh at LB

Gjere on one side and another Minnesota kid who I won't name on the other anchoring the line.

I realize it's all potential at this point, but when was the last time a Minnesota coach injected that kind of raw talent into the program?
 

Golden Shower said:
And you have vast knowledge and understanding of recruiting how? Reading blogs? Your football background is what? Rivals currently has us rated #28 in the nation and 5th in the Big Ten behind PSU, tOSU, Michigan and Iowa. And that is bad how?
Click to expand...

I'll repost for you what I wrote. Guessing you didn't read it.

"I think it does matter how you look at it...and Rival's rating system is messed up, much less their team rankings.

On Rivals right now, the Gophs are listed as having the #28 class in the country. Certainly at face value it's nothing to be ashamed about. However, if you dig a bit deeper, it's not nearly what it appears to be.

The average star rating is 2.74 for the Gophers. That ranks them #53, 25 spots below their current slot. What the Gophers have going for them is quantity, not quality. To me, having 23 committments yet being in the #53 position for average star rating seems like a missed opportunity to me.

I personally think Rivals team ranking system is incredibly flawed. Oklahoma St and Ohio St are currently tied for 19th in the rankings. Oklahoma St has 25 verbals while Ohio St has only 13. The quality of Ohio St's 13 is vastly superior to Oklahoma St's top 13 recruits. Why should they be ranked the same? Just because Oklahoma St has more scholarships available? If anything, I'd dock a team like Oklahoma St in the rankings because they're using a ton of scholarships on medicore (perceived) players.

If I based my recruiting opinion on stars, I certainly expect Brewster to have a class where the average star ranking for the player is better than 53rd in the country.

Something's different compared to previous Brewster classes."
 

It's not that messed up PS. It's incredibly predictive of future success. And while you can't look at an individual athlete and predict how he'll pan out based on the rankings, as a class you certainly can.

You also have to remember the average star rankings include some zero's. Those athletes aren't zero's. But they haven't been ranked.

The class rankings is about the power of the class. It's not about finding a way to rank the average recruit. A class of thirty average kids has a better chance of a positive impact than a small class of above average kids. If you get both your a top five recruiting team, like Penn State this year. Rivals weights both the impact of top recruits, and the impact of depth. It's not a bad rating system. And the proof is again in how predictive it is.
 

Schnoodler said:
It's not that messed up PS. It's incredibly predictive of future success. And while you can't look at an individual athlete and predict how he'll pan out based on the rankings, as a class you certainly can.

You also have to remember the average star rankings include some zero's. Those athletes aren't zero's. But they haven't been ranked.

The class rankings is about the power of the class. It's not about finding a way to rank the average recruit. A class of thirty average kids has a better chance of a positive impact than a small class of above average kids. If you get both your a top five recruiting team, like Penn State this year. Rivals weights both the impact of top recruits, and the impact of depth. It's not a bad rating system. And the proof is again in how predictive it is.
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We're gonna have to agree to disagree then. Give me a team limited to 50 scholarships but chalk full of above average recruits and I'll give you the full 85 scholarships where everyone of them is an average 3 star player and I love my chances. Quality is definitely more important that quantity in my opinion.

Depth can be achieved in a class full of above average players limited to 15 scholarships compared to one full of average players up to 25. My above average recruits will have a higher success rate than yours plus a couple of mine are more likely to becomes stars.

There's no question in my mind that recruiting is an important piece of the puzzle. However, you'll never get me on the quantity over quality argument when comparing classes. Filling a spot with a medicore recruit just takes it away from someone that could be better. Not just in the current class but later classes as well.

I'll take Ohio St's 13 recruits over Oklahoma St's 25 every day of the week twice over.
 

Imagine if we found a running back!

This is not difficult!

WANTED: Somebody to start in a Big Ten backfield.

This should NOT be a hard sell! HOW do we keep screwing it up!?!?!
 

I've done the research. Others have to PS. You can disagree all you want but you're fighting against real outcomes.
 

Studwell55 said:
Imagine if we found a running back!

This is not difficult!

WANTED: Somebody to start in a Big Ten backfield.

This should NOT be a hard sell! HOW do we keep screwing it up!?!?!
Click to expand...

don't we have two good ones on the way? I think we've dealt with this.
 

dpodoll68 said:
In just a short period of time, you have become, easily, the worst poster on GopherHole. And it's not even close.

I tried to contemplate how much you suck, but it made my head hurt trying to comprehend something so vast. Then I stopped.
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Recruiting does not matter if you can't coach the talent you bring in. Our coaching staff SUCKS at improving talent so he has a very valid point. Athleticism only gets you so far on the field.
 

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