Brewster on Sports Wrap Sunday

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Hiring a new, inexperienced coach and starting new systems was not my idea. Nonetheless, winning Big Ten football games is the gig.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Hiring a new, inexperienced coach and starting new systems was not my idea. Nonetheless, winning Big Ten football games is the gig.
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Big Ten teams play Big Ten games in the Big Ten. Big Ten.


Big Ten.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Hiring a new, inexperienced coach and starting new systems was not my idea. Nonetheless, winning Big Ten football games is the gig.
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It seems one benefit is that some of the complacent fans from the old regime now have higher expectations. It is always nice to renew the passion in the base.
 

minngg said:
Iowa keeps its players? I think you better do more research. Look at the red shirt seniors and go back to the class of their recruitment and see if any other players from that year are playing elsewhere. Mason had one of the lowest percentages of redshirts year in and year out.

As far as the Iowa game goes. Iowa was 1 for 13 on 3rd down and average 1.5 yards per carry. Conservative or not MN played a good defensive game. You are missing the point however, the point is that MN's offense played with mostly 20 year olds and younger while Iowa played with mostly 22 year olds and older. That is not only last year, it is every year.

To build a program you need a first class lifting program (we did not have this under Mason) and a first class red shirt program especially for lineman and LB's. You can build these quickly but it takes years to get the depth necessary for them to be effective.

Go ahead and just say win or leave Brewster. Forget about looking into why he is succeeding of failing. We can always just hire another coach and start over. Hire another coach to start the red shirt program again. Hire another coach with new systems. If it were that easy Rich Rodriguez would be winning at MI.
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Ferentz won by the end of year 4 in Iowa... Alvarez won by the end of year 4 in Madison... Barnett won by the end of year 4 in Evanston... for every Rich Rod, there are examples on the flip-side... The resources are in place here to win... and you make it sound like the program was absolute garbage when Mason was fired... I'm not sure that's fair to him.
 



Doogie said:
Ferentz won by the end of year 4 in Iowa... Alvarez won by the end of year 4 in Madison... Barnett won by the end of year 4 in Evanston... for every Rich Rod, there are examples on the flip-side... The resources are in place here to win... and you make it sound like the program was absolute garbage when Mason was fired... I'm not sure that's fair to him.
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I wouldn't say the program was "garbage" when Mason was fired, but there certainly wasn't much talent left, especially the upperclassmen. Mason may have won a few more games in 2007 but no way we were going to a bowl game that year.
 


Doogie said:
Ferentz won by the end of year 4 in Iowa... Alvarez won by the end of year 4 in Madison... Barnett won by the end of year 4 in Evanston... for every Rich Rod, there are examples on the flip-side... The resources are in place here to win... and you make it sound like the program was absolute garbage when Mason was fired... I'm not sure that's fair to him.
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a) Ferentz won in year 4 but any comparison to the MN program Brewster took over to the program Ferentz took over from Fry is laughable. Fry left Ferentz 9 future NFL players including Gallery, Steinbach, Kampman, Clark, and Bowen.

b) Barnett won In Evanston by year end 4. His Big Ten record at NW was 23-33. 35-45 overall. Inlcuding 0-8 his final year before he bolted for Colorado. At Colorado, he was run out of town for providing sex and alcohol to recruits. In June 2007, the Buffaloes were placed under probation for two years and fined $100,000 for undercharging 133 student-athletes for meals over a six year span (2000–01 to 2005–06 encompassing Barnett's tenure at Colorado) resulting in the major infraction.

c)Alvarez is the one coach that really made a difference. Dave McClain, who tradgically passed away at age 48, had winning Big Ten seasons 4 of the last 5 years way before Alvarez took over. Alvarez did take it to another level with a lot of help from the WI adminsitration which cut baseball and other non-revenue sports to focus on football. Alvarez was a great coach.

Each case is different. Why is MN different? Look under the hood and you will find out. Simply casting blame on the head coach is easy. Look at finances, look at history. Look at what states surround us for recruiting. Iowa has MN, MO, KS, WI, IL, NE on it's border. WI has MI, IL, MN, IA, on it's border. MN has WI, IA, ND, SD Canada on it's border. This year MN did not have a Rivals Top 10. Why? Because there were not enough Div 1 players to have a top 10. Can all of this be overcome? Yes. Just takes time.
 

Doogie said:
Ferentz won by the end of year 4 in Iowa... Alvarez won by the end of year 4 in Madison... Barnett won by the end of year 4 in Evanston... for every Rich Rod, there are examples on the flip-side... The resources are in place here to win... and you make it sound like the program was absolute garbage when Mason was fired... I'm not sure that's fair to him.
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It might not entirely fair to call the Gophers garbage when Mason was fired, but our entire program was in complete shambles. Look at who our starters were that season, it was an amazingly empty cupboard (from all sorts of things, lack of recruiting class, off the field incidents, and just lack of talent).

Honestly, go look at our roster in 2007 and tell me that that isn't one of the least talented Big 10 teams of recent memory.

QB: Adam Weber - FR (Still a question mark as a SR)
RB: Bennett - FR (Still a question mark as a SR)
WR: Decker - SO (Unknown, but turned out to be a stud)
WR: Wheelwright (talented SR)
WR: Spry FR
TE: Jack Simmons - JR
OT: Alford - FR
OG: Ned Tavale - SO
C: DJ Burris - FR
OG: Tow Arnett - SO (turned out to be decent at the end)
OT: Shidell (an ok big 10 tackle)

DEFENSE:
DE: Van De Steeg - JR (he was fairly talented)
DT: E. Small - SO (he was in over his head big time in his soph year, turned out to be decent)
DT: G. Brown - SO
DE: Henderson - SO
OLB: Shevlin - SR
MLB: Sherels - SR
OLB: Hightower - JR
CB: Collado - FR
CB: Steib - SR
FS: D. Barber
SS: C. Thomas

Can you really say that isn't probably one of the emptiest Big 10 teams you can recall? I don't think "garbage" is too off base with how the program was left. It doesn't really characterize the overall job done by Mason, but I think it's pretty apt to what Brewster inherited.

Also...how can you possibly compare BRewster to Alvarez? Barry is a once in a lifetime hire by the Badgers. There is a statute of him in front of their stadium, he is literally a walking legend. Don't you think it's a bit unfair for you to expect legendary results out of a person?

As far as FErentz, well he inherited a better program. He has done a very nice job, but Iowa had built in advantages (big filled stadium, better fanbase, followed another legend in Fry). I think it would be more apt to compare Ferentz with Bielema (even though Iowa was obviously in worse shape), but it is a whole different program when you are adding on to the work done by a legend than it is to take over a program like the Gophers.
 




minngg said:
a) Ferentz won in year 4 but any comparison to the MN program Brewster took over to the program Ferentz took over from Fry is laughable. Fry left Ferentz 9 future NFL players including Gallery, Steinbach, Kampman, Clark, and Bowen.

b) Barnett won In Evanston by year end 4. His Big Ten record at NW was 23-33. 35-45 overall. Inlcuding 0-8 his final year before he bolted for Colorado. At Colorado, he was run out of town for providing sex and alcohol to recruits. In June 2007, the Buffaloes were placed under probation for two years and fined $100,000 for undercharging 133 student-athletes for meals over a six year span (2000–01 to 2005–06 encompassing Barnett's tenure at Colorado) resulting in the major infraction.

c)Alvarez is the one coach that really made a difference. Dave McClain, who tradgically passed away at age 48, had winning Big Ten seasons 4 of the last 5 years way before Alvarez took over. Alvarez did take it to another level with a lot of help from the WI adminsitration which cut baseball and other non-revenue sports to focus on football. Alvarez was a great coach.

Each case is different. Why is MN different? Look under the hood and you will find out. Simply casting blame on the head coach is easy. Look at finances, look at history. Look at what states surround us for recruiting. Iowa has MN, MO, KS, WI, IL, NE on it's border. WI has MI, IL, MN, IA, on it's border. MN has WI, IA, ND, SD Canada on it's border. This year MN did not have a Rivals Top 10. Why? Because there were not enough Div 1 players to have a top 10. Can all of this be overcome? Yes. Just takes time.
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So, Ferentz had nothing to do with those guys developing the way they did? He was a big reason why those guys went on to the NFL.

With you on Barnett... a disaster after leaving NW... but that 4th year was magical... we would all give just about anything just to have 1 season like that.

Never have placed all the blame on Brew... but as of today, I believe the resources are in place to win... the built-in excuses are gone for the most part. Recruiting to MN can be done, regardless of the states that border, or that don't.

Fun conversation.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It might not entirely fair to call the Gophers garbage when Mason was fired, but our entire program was in complete shambles. Look at who our starters were that season, it was an amazingly empty cupboard (from all sorts of things, lack of recruiting class, off the field incidents, and just lack of talent).

Honestly, go look at our roster in 2007 and tell me that that isn't one of the least talented Big 10 teams of recent memory.

QB: Adam Weber - FR (Still a question mark as a SR)
RB: Bennett - FR (Still a question mark as a SR)
WR: Decker - SO (Unknown, but turned out to be a stud)
WR: Wheelwright (talented SR)
WR: Spry FR
TE: Jack Simmons - JR
OT: Alford - FR
OG: Ned Tavale - SO
C: DJ Burris - FR
OG: Tow Arnett - SO (turned out to be decent at the end)
OT: Shidell (an ok big 10 tackle)

DEFENSE:
DE: Van De Steeg - JR (he was fairly talented)
DT: E. Small - SO (he was in over his head big time in his soph year, turned out to be decent)
DT: G. Brown - SO
DE: Henderson - SO
OLB: Shevlin - SR
MLB: Sherels - SR
OLB: Hightower - JR
CB: Collado - FR
CB: Steib - SR
FS: D. Barber
SS: C. Thomas

Can you really say that isn't probably one of the emptiest Big 10 teams you can recall? I don't think "garbage" is too off base with how the program was left. It doesn't really characterize the overall job done by Mason, but I think it's pretty apt to what Brewster inherited.

Also...how can you possibly compare BRewster to Alvarez? Barry is a once in a lifetime hire by the Badgers. There is a statute of him in front of their stadium, he is literally a walking legend. Don't you think it's a bit unfair for you to expect legendary results out of a person?

As far as FErentz, well he inherited a better program. He has done a very nice job, but Iowa had built in advantages (big filled stadium, better fanbase, followed another legend in Fry). I think it would be more apt to compare Ferentz with Bielema (even though Iowa was obviously in worse shape), but it is a whole different program when you are adding on to the work done by a legend than it is to take over a program like the Gophers.
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I have always heard that you don't want to follow a legend... you want to be the 2nd guy... so, which is right?

Will agree to disagree on the shape Mason left the program in... that was a 5 win team that Mason left... that's garbage?
 

Kinda frustrating to see this kind of thread before a snap has even been played.
Doogie, love the recent coverage, but I think it's ok for you to admit you just don't like Brewster as a coach, some here will admit this openly, it's fine, your right to an opinion.
I'll say it, I didn't like Mason as a coach. There out in the open. I still think it takes 5 years to put together the TALENT to compete consistently. TALENT wins ballgames, COACHING is made better by good TALENT.

Bottom line, nobody knows what to expect this year. There are virtually no known entities this year including Brewster. His track record grows every game and can give us some insight into what the heck a program under his regime would look like during it's peak.
As a program we were hamstrung terribly going into 07'. The NDSU game proved that the talent simply wasn't there to compete. It improved in 08' due mostly to JUCO recruits and upperclassmen in new positions stabilizing the D. It also was too thin and too young up front to continue a run into the big ten season. 55-0 proved that with an exclamation point as I watched freshman RT Ryan Wynn get mauled by Iowa's Dline.
09' we had the pieces in place to have a nice little season, we lost our best player who was on pace to have a monster year, and again our depth faltered down the stretch.
This is what i make of it. Considering all of this and the fact that we actually now have some talent in place. I'm not ready to judge Brewster yet.
 



All I know is every single season since Brewster got here, this team has gotten better. That's the only judgment I have on a coach who is entering into a new program, especially with his relative inexperience. Wins, losses, they're nice, but they don't tell enough of the story. I saw a team that went from a disastrous 2007 campaign, to a vastly improved 2008 campaign. Then I saw that improved 2008 team turn into an even better 2009 team, whether people want to believe it or not. That 2008 team would not have been able to come up with wins over Air Force, @ Northwestern, Michigan State, or maybe even Purdue that season. Now, we enter 2010 and the question is, will we continue to become a better team/program, or will we fall back? I have no reason to believe this team will be worse than next season, whether the wins/losses bear that out or not.

If we were playing the 2007 schedule, we would be sitting here wondering if we could possibly win 10 games (and not snicker while doing it). But that's not reality. Reality is that we have a tough road ahead, schedule-wise, and with a younger cast on defense, will need the veterans to hold things together with that unit, while the offense will now have to hold more of the weight. If the trend the last three years holds, we will see improvement from this team. The question is, will they improve enough to muster up enough wins to, say, make a Bowl game this season considering who they're playing? I hope so. I wouldn't necessarily bet the farm on it, but I think they could.
 

Doogie said:
So, Ferentz had nothing to do with those guys developing the way they did? He was a big reason why those guys went on to the NFL.

With you on Barnett... a disaster after leaving NW... but that 4th year was magical... we would all give just about anything just to have 1 season like that.

Never have placed all the blame on Brew... but as of today, I believe the resources are in place to win... the built-in excuses are gone for the most part. Recruiting to MN can be done, regardless of the states that border, or that don't.

Fun conversation.
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I am not saying Ferentz isn't a very good coach. He is. There just is no comparison to what he walked into and what Brewster walked into. MN hasn't won a Big Ten title in 40 years when Brewster walked in here. Fry won 3 Big Ten titles and went to 3 Rose Bowls. MN hasn't been to a Rose Bowl in almost 50 years. Iowa had better recruiting classes than MN for 9 out of 10 Mason years. They also red shirted many more recruits.

You are right that Brewster will soon own this team. Soon is the operative word. Too bad some could not find it in their minds to be fair to him until the criticism was more warranted. If you listen to KFAn, Brewster has owned this mess since day one. Forget the 40 years that preceded him.
 

Doogie said:
So, Ferentz had nothing to do with those guys developing the way they did? He was a big reason why those guys went on to the NFL.

With you on Barnett... a disaster after leaving NW... but that 4th year was magical... we would all give just about anything just to have 1 season like that.

Never have placed all the blame on Brew... but as of today, I believe the resources are in place to win... the built-in excuses are gone for the most part. Recruiting to MN can be done, regardless of the states that border, or that don't.

Fun conversation.
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The Gophers had more than a half-dozen get NFL looks this year. I don't have the exact number here, but some were Mason recruits. Make sure you refer to Brewster's role in developing Decker, Triplett, Campbell and Sherels when this topic comes up again this season.
 

Ole said:
Kinda frustrating to see this kind of thread before a snap has even been played.
Doogie, love the recent coverage, but I think it's ok for you to admit you just don't like Brewster as a coach, some here will admit this openly, it's fine, your right to an opinion.
I'll say it, I didn't like Mason as a coach. There out in the open. I still think it takes 5 years to put together the TALENT to compete consistently. TALENT wins ballgames, COACHING is made better by good TALENT.

Bottom line, nobody knows what to expect this year. There are virtually no known entities this year including Brewster. His track record grows every game and can give us some insight into what the heck a program under his regime would look like during it's peak.
As a program we were hamstrung terribly going into 07'. The NDSU game proved that the talent simply wasn't there to compete. It improved in 08' due mostly to JUCO recruits and upperclassmen in new positions stabilizing the D. It also was too thin and too young up front to continue a run into the big ten season. 55-0 proved that with an exclamation point as I watched freshman RT Ryan Wynn get mauled by Iowa's Dline.
09' we had the pieces in place to have a nice little season, we lost our best player who was on pace to have a monster year, and again our depth faltered down the stretch.
This is what i make of it. Considering all of this and the fact that we actually now have some talent in place. I'm not ready to judge Brewster yet.
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Well put... I know Brew can recruit... but little so far has told me that he knows what he's doing day-to-day in practice, game preparation, and in-game... but he hired a solid off. coord., which should help this year... willing to see how this year plays out -- hope to see measurable progress... if we do, 2011 is all his... if not, I would move on.
 

minngg said:
I am not saying Ferentz isn't a very good coach. He is. There just is no comparison to what he walked into and what Brewster walked into. MN hasn't won a Big Ten title in 40 years when Brewster walked in here. Fry won 3 Big Ten titles and went to 3 Rose Bowls. MN hasn't been to a Rose Bowl in almost 50 years. Iowa had better recruiting classes than MN for 9 out of 10 Mason years. They also red shirted many more recruits.

You are right that Brewster will soon own this team. Soon is the operative word. Too bad some could not find it in their minds to be fair to him until the criticism was more warranted. If you listen to KFAn, Brewster has owned this mess since day one. Forget the 40 years that preceded him.
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Don't listen as much as I used to... fully understand that this has been a 40-year mess, a mess that started long before I was even alive... just feel like it's as fixable as its been in some time, especially w/ normally powerhouse Michigan significantly down.
 

Doogie said:
Will agree to disagree on the shape Mason left the program in... that was a 5 win team that Mason left... that's garbage?
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If that was a 5 win team that Mason left, our current roster should be projected to be a 9-10 win team under a typical schedule (I know that is not what we have this year). There was maybe 1or at most 3 offensive starters from 07 that would be starting on the 10 team. On the defensive side, there would be 2 or at most 3 07 starters that would be starting on the 10 team. That is a big difference.
 

We all know that Brew had some major growing pains as a first time coach. He got caught up taking a chance on NFL assistants as his coordinators. They didn't have the experience to direct the team and he did't have the background to mold them. He now has the experienced coaches in the systems he wants, along with the talent and attitude in the program. It is obvious that the program is going in the right direction.
 

Doogie said:
I have always heard that you don't want to follow a legend... you want to be the 2nd guy... so, which is right?

Will agree to disagree on the shape Mason left the program in... that was a 5 win team that Mason left... that's garbage?
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Definitely not garbage, but pretty thin talent-wise. The Defense in particular, after losing two or possibly three starters because of the horrible incident on campus and another D-Back because of grades, was not Big Ten quality. Wacker left Mason more on Defense then Mason left Brewster.

Mason was roundly criticized for saying that 2007 was going to be a big rebuilding year. I've always found it amusing that his most staunch defenders (settle down, not you Doogie) said that he was telling the truth while he was still the Head Coach but once Brewster came in what a liar Glen was!:clap:

All that said three things spring to mind:

- Brewster wasted that first year and even part of the second by failing to see that recruiting ability and TCF alone wouldn't be able to bring enough top flight kids in to run the spread on a regular basis.

- Keeping some of the running game would have led to two or three more victorys, enough to make that first year not be such a stain on well, everything.

- Boy I wish this year's schedule had UL Monroe and Indiana rather then USC and Michigan State!
 



As has been stated many, many times, if you run a head coach down from a three year contract to a no year contract you will blow away two or three years of recruiting. It was such a stupid way to get rid of a head coach that even this AD has learned that it should never be done again. Add to that the ridiculous last minute re signing of that coach for one year and then firing him and you have burned off three to four years of recruiting. For those very same fans who supported this silly way to fire a coach to now say that the "cupboard was bare" is just insane. I very distinctly recall someone warning the "oh, running him down to no years on his contract will do no harm" crowd, that you would be running the program down for the next coach as well.

I know of two ways to replace a coach that does the least damage possible (and you don't even need to pay me $200,000 per year to get this advise). You bring in his replacement as an coordinator for one or two years in an orderly, but silent, take over (ie Wisconsin). Or, you stab the current coach in the back in the middle of the night within twenty four hours of making the decision. The way our hand over was done over more than three years was stupid past belief.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
As has been stated many, many times, if you run a head coach down from a three year contract to a no year contract you will blow away two or three years of recruiting. It was such a stupid way to get rid of a head coach that even this AD has learned that it should never be done again. Add to that the ridiculous last minute re signing of that coach for one year and then firing him and you have burned off three to four years of recruiting. For those very same fans who supported this silly way to fire a coach to now say that the "cupboard was bare" is just insane. I very distinctly recall someone warning the "oh, running him down to no years on his contract will do no harm" crowd, that you would be running the program down for the next coach as well.

I know of two ways to replace a coach that does the least damage possible (and you don't even need to pay me $200,000 per year to get this advise). You bring in his replacement as an coordinator for one or two years in an orderly, but silent, take over (ie Wisconsin). Or, you stab the current coach in the back in the middle of the night within twenty four hours of making the decision. The way our hand over was done over more than three years was stupid past belief.
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And he expands upon the instant classic by adding much needed layer and depth to the conspiracy.
 


Yes, Coach Wacker became a great recruiter once Mason took over. (?) You can usually tell a better coach when he takes over and the team wins more games. In fact, isn't that what you normally look for in a coach? Indeed, wasn't that one of the claims made at the time of the coaching change, "anyone could coach better than Mason"? I seem to recall that.
 

I actually thought the biggest concerns over Mason was the fact that he seemed to do a less than stellar job of recruiting, so there seemed to be no real advancement in site. I thought most Gopher fans thought he maximized talent (or close to it), but that he didn't bring enough talent in.
 

Gopherhurrin/Loon is right about 1 thing...it was idiotic to let Mason's contract run down to 1 year remaining, re-sign him and then fire him. I don't blame Mason for the bare cupboard in the last few years. He had no chance to build a decent recruiting class.
 

You're right Darren. The cupboard being bare had a bunch of factors, but it was still bare when Brew took it over.
 

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