Brew's visit with Seantrel

[caliGopher]

that's pretty much how it works. So yes we are in that time frame. It's the sad reality of the uphill battle to establish yourself. I've never actually heard anyone who thought we'd be at the top ten level year in and year out any sooner though. So I don't think this is news. I think most are hoping for the Iowa, Wiscy level soon. That is the next step, and that is the level Brewster is recruiting at or just above. When that talent is firmly in place, and we reach that level, hopefully we can continue the journey and not get stuck there, although it would be a welcomed improvement.

Really? 10 years so we can hope to be competitive in games against these teams?

I get the point you're trying to make that being a top 10 team is one thing and consistently being one is another, but we need to expect more from our coach to get there.

 

[howeda7]

Exactly!!

It was so much easier to watch Mason's teams. I remember taunting the Michigan players behind their bench in 2003 that we were going to take their jug. It got pretty intense for awhile, when we were up by three TDs in the 4th quarter. That was easy.

Then there was the time I was in Madison visiting friends and watching the Gopher/Badger game on State Street. I was riling up the crowd in epic fashion. Then the punter flubbed the snap and, instead of running out of the end zone, kicked it right into the rushing Badger defenders. Then they scored a TD to win the game. That was easy too.

Yep, those were the days easy-watching football.

Yeah, I guess never really being in the game and being down 12-0 or 20-0 or 34-7 going into the 4th quarter is better then having the lead and choking it. No sense playing well and getting your hopes up.

 

[Schnoodler]

Dude, Mason was fired 3+ years ago and he should have. This isn't about the previous coach, it's about Brewster. If you're only going to compare Brewster to Mason, you've set your sights too low.

So, here we go:

2006 final power rating: 20 2007 Final recruiting ranking: 8 (+13)
2007 Final power rating: 92 2008 Final recruiting ranking: 3 (+89)
2008 Final power rating: 54 2009 Final Recruiting ranking: 21 (+33)

So how'd that work our for you Mr. Weiss.

What I'd love to see is the flip side approach, actually coach the recruits:

2006 final power rating: 34 2007 Final recruiting ranking: 89 (-55)
2007 Final power rating: 13 2008 Final recruiting ranking: 67 (-54)
2008 Final power rating: 18 2009 Final Recruiting ranking: 60 (-42)

Ah yes, Mr. Brian Kelly of the Cincinnati Bearcats, come on down.

Tell both of these gentleman that coaching has nothing to do with it, and rivals recruiting rankings are where the rubber really hits the road.

And another meaningless use of random stats goes ***Boom!***

thanks for playing.

Way to ignore the preponderance of the data and find an exception. You'll find a few every year. But to your point, this is precisely why Weiss is fired, and why Brewster should not be. Weiss underachieved to his talent level. Brewster has performed right to his, while assembling a more talented future. If he continues to do that, he'll achieve everything he said he would. Until that process stops and the talent usurps his results he's doing his job. Your example is proof of our point, and why the cincy coach should get accolades.

 

[howeda7]

If this was true, Brew would be coaching David Gilreath of Wisconsin and Greg Jones of MSU. Players don't like turnover in their staff...sometimes they think that when he's fired that this isn't their best opportunity to succeed at the college level and they jump ship. The fact that brewster brought in better players than other former coaches makes me think that at least a handful of them came here because of Brew, not just the national power that is Minnesota football.

Certainly, many of the player are here for Brew and some may leave if he is fired. But the majority will not. And there are many examples of this working. #1 in my mind is Ron Zook. He was (is) a lot like Brew. Great recruiter, not much of a coach. Urban Meyer's first national title at Florida was almost entirely with his players. Would he have won a national title if they'd let him stay? Almost certainly not. I'm not comparing us to Florida, mind you. But if (when) Brew is fired we will almost assuredly target a strong coach over a strong recruiter (if that's the trade-off we have to choose here). Therefore, our best window for success will likely come in that window while the stronger coach is coaching up the stronger athletes.

 

[caliGopher]

Actually, he wasn't, but whatever.

And the main reason I brought up Mason is because you say Brewster is "always going to outrecruit his on-field performance" like it's some meaningless statistic. Without even doing any research, I guarantee you that is something Mason accomplished rarely, if ever. So we need look no further than our current coach's predecessor to see that it is, in fact, not an easy thing to do.

I also brought up Mason because you constantly wash his balls on this site.

You're right, it was almost 3 years ago he was fired, still, move on -- and don't foist your fixation with our former coach on me.

 

[caliGopher]

Way to ignore the preponderance of the data and find an exception. You'll find a few every year. But to your point, this is precisely why Weiss is fired, and why Brewster should not be. Weiss underachieved to his talent level. Brewster has performed right to his, while assembling a more talented future. If he continues to do that, he'll achieve everything he said he would. Until that process stops and the talent usurps his results he's doing his job. Your example is proof of our point, and why the cincy coach should get accolades.

Honest question, how is Brewster different from Weiss? Both have recruited far better than they have performed on the field and if Brewster stays true to form, he'll be gone in 5 years as well.

There are more examples than Brian Kelly out there as well, but I get your point. It does smack the idea that coaching is irrelevant firmly in the face, however, hence why I've always thought we should have hired someone who could recruit and coach.

 

[Schnoodler]

Honest question, how is Brewster different from Weiss? Both have recruited far better than they have performed on the field and if Brewster stays true to form, he'll be gone in 5 years as well.

There are more examples than Brian Kelly out there as well, but I get your point. It does smack the idea that coaching is irrelevant firmly in the face, however, hence why I've always thought we should have hired someone who could recruit and coach.

Weiss did not play to his teams ability. Brewster has. It's not difficult.

I get that you're trying to say that weiss created his poor outcomes. And that is true and why he should be fired. But brewster is not having poor outcomes based on the talent of his teams. He's right on target. The talent of brewsters team is pre-established. The baseline isn't a mystery. Brewster is on target, weiss missed. If Brew continues to be a mid level team with top thirty talent, then you have evidence against him. As for now, recruiting remains his strong point, and his hope for the future.

This year, he finished exactly where his talent level suggested he would. Yet he's putting together another top thirty team. Soon his talent will be seniors and juniors and he'll be fielding a top thirty team, we should then expect top thirty results.

 

[porscheboxster]

I have a question and I truely don't know the answer to it. What recruiting rankings did the gophers receive 4 or 5 years ago? Were the recruiting rankings from 4-5 years ago way higher than what Brewster has the team in actual standings?

I always thought Brewster coached these players to around where they were suppose to be so he're I've been kind of excited to see how this team will look when these past couple recruiting classes will become juniors and seniors as I personally will be pleased being around 20-30 in the standings.

However if Brewsters standings are way lower than the recruiting classes of the upperclassmen, then I can see why some fans are getting worried.

EDIT: Sorry I'm a slow typer and didn't read the last post. Thanks Schnoodler for answering my question.

 

[Schnoodler]

The beauty of our situation and why we should relax a little, is that the downside to this progression is still positive. If Brewster ends up not being able to coach to the talent level of his team, we move on except we've got a talented roster for the next coach. It's really a win win, for at least another year.

 

[Schnoodler]

Mason had one decent recruiting year, which is still worse than any of Brewsters, mostly they were about at the mid level of D1. About at Indiana's current level. When Brewster took over he had the 9th best roster in the Big Ten excluding departures (note the ohio group). Curently he's 7th but the gap is narrow to the next few teams. Next year depending on this years teams he move to around the 6th. The year after following the trend he should be fielding the fourth or fifth best roster, still distant behind OSU, PSU and Mich.

 

[minibeaver]

Dude, Mason was fired 3+ years ago and he should have. This isn't about the previous coach, it's about Brewster. If you're only going to compare Brewster to Mason, you've set your sights too low.

So, here we go:

2006 final power rating: 20 2007 Final recruiting ranking: 8 (+13)
2007 Final power rating: 92 2008 Final recruiting ranking: 3 (+89)
2008 Final power rating: 54 2009 Final Recruiting ranking: 21 (+33)

So how'd that work our for you Mr. Weiss.

What I'd love to see is the flip side approach, actually coach the recruits:

2006 final power rating: 34 2007 Final recruiting ranking: 89 (-55)
2007 Final power rating: 13 2008 Final recruiting ranking: 67 (-54)
2008 Final power rating: 18 2009 Final Recruiting ranking: 60 (-42)

Ah yes, Mr. Brian Kelly of the Cincinnati Bearcats, come on down.

Tell both of these gentleman that coaching has nothing to do with it, and rivals recruiting rankings are where the rubber really hits the road.

And another meaningless use of random stats goes ***Boom!***

thanks for playing.

Oh fun can I play?!! It's not boom, its boom goes the dynamite. (I love Family Guy)And yes coaching does have something to do with it and I wonder how much time you spent looking up those stats that don't prove Shi!. We had neither coaching nor recruiting when Mason was here. We at least have one of those with Brew. Brew has a learning curve because this is his first HC job, if he was proven we would have never gotten him to begin with. He finally has a system in place and (fingers crossed) some stability in the Coord. department. Let Brew bring in the talent and be the cheerleader and speech giver and let the Coordinators coach the kids up. It feels like everyone is jumping ship right before we are about to get it turned around. Give it some time for gods sake worst thing that can happen is we go 500 the next two or three years, make a few worthless bowl games and we are no worse off then before we got him. I bet if we had a coach on the opposite side of the coaching spectrum you'd be saying the exact opposite in that we need the talent and then the coaching heh?

 

[BigGopherFan]

Tim Brewster has the 7th best recruiting class in the Big 10 according to Scout.com. Doesn't sound like a recruiting wizard to me. I'm going to get killed for this, but I thought it was worth mentioning...again.

 

[caliGopher]

Tim Brewster has the 7th best recruiting class in the Big 10 according to Scout.com. Doesn't sound like a recruiting wizard to me. I'm going to get killed for this, but I thought it was worth mentioning...again.

Don't let facts get in the way of our recruiting genius/coaching dunce. Everyone knows coaches only get out of the players exactly they way they are rated by a group of guys who evaluated talent based on which schools give them offers. There is no coaching, only talent.

 

[porscheboxster]

Tim Brewster has the 7th best recruiting class in the Big 10 according to Scout.com. Doesn't sound like a recruiting wizard to me. I'm going to get killed for this, but I thought it was worth mentioning...again.

Dang looks like the Big 10 teams are really recruiting well this year as I thought people were saying the Goph's class was sitting in the low to mid 30s. Hopefully Brew gets his yearly last minute switch that he got with Cooper and Carter.

 

[Schnoodler]

Rivals is better and more predictive.

 

[porscheboxster]

Don't let facts get in the way of our recruiting genius/coaching dunce. Everyone knows coaches only get out of the players exactly they way they are rated by a group of guys who evaluated talent based on which schools give them offers. There is no coaching, only talent.

I hope there's coaching being involved and I believe I've already seen it on the defensive side of the football. I get what you're saying about the offense and I hear a lot of people complain about the O-Line. But isn't that why Brewster went out and hired an O-Line coach that has previously coached and developed an All American at USC and wasn't he an o-line coach in the pro's as well>

Do you think Davis is in over his head and won't develop the O-Linemen. I've said this before I'll never rip the Upper Class linemen as many of the were recruited by Mason's staff which used smaller linemen and from what I've heard Davis looks for bigger linemen which the Goph's appear to have a few of them comming up in a year or two.

I just hope for the sake of the offense they don't have to spend next offseason learning another playbook/scheme and instead can spend that time repping and hopefully fine tuning the plays they already know. Hopefully that will at least help on cutting down on a few of the penalties (Because boy there were a few of them this year).

 

[GophersInIowa]

Tim Brewster has the 7th best recruiting class in the Big 10 according to Scout.com. Doesn't sound like a recruiting wizard to me. I'm going to get killed for this, but I thought it was worth mentioning...again.

Scout has Wisconsin rated ahead of us right now. They have Josh Huff rated as a 2-star player. Scout sucks.

 

[frozengopher]

I also brought up Mason because you constantly wash his balls on this site.

Among all the statements you've made so far in this thread, this was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. This week's sign of the apocalypse: frozengopher is beginning to appreciate, enjoy, and authentically chuckle at some of dpodoll68's posts.

We've come a long way from accusations of fascism, haven't we?

 

[Clyde Tester]

Quick question - and I will admit up front that I do not follow recruiting well - but when Mason recruited Maroney/Barber/and the other Gophers who ended up playing in the NFL (I think I read somewhere there were nine of them), how were those classes ranked? How were those now-NFL players ranked when coming out of HS?

I guess where I'm going with the question is this - were those NFL players highly regarded as 18 year olds? Was their apparent talent as juniors/seniors recognized in how their recruiting classes were rated? And then are there any Barber/Maroney/Spaeth/etc. type players in any of Brew's classes? Any that will end up being that good but weren't so highly rated out of HS? Evaluating recruiting just seems so inexact to me that I'm struggling with understanding how to even evaluate it outside of blindly following Rivals?

 

[bassy123]

Quick question - and I will admit up front that I do not follow recruiting well - but when Mason recruited Maroney/Barber/and the other Gophers who ended up playing in the NFL (I think I read somewhere there were nine of them), how were those classes ranked? How were those now-NFL players ranked when coming out of HS?

I guess where I'm going with the question is this - were those NFL players highly regarded as 18 year olds? Were their apparent talent as juniors/seniors recognized in how their recruiting classes were rated? And then are there any Barber/Maroney/Spaeth/etc. type players in any of Brew's classes? Any that will end up being that good but weren't so highly rated out of HS? Evaluating recruiting just seems so inexact to me that I'm struggling with understanding how to even evaluate it outside of blindly following Rivals?

matt spaeth
http://rivals.yahoo.com/nevada/football/recruiting/player-Matt-Spaeth-3912

Maroney
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Laurence-Maroney-10975

couldn't find anything on barber.

 

[dpodoll68]

Quick question - and I will admit up front that I do not follow recruiting well - but when Mason recruited Maroney/Barber/and the other Gophers who ended up playing in the NFL (I think I read somewhere there were nine of them), how were those classes ranked? How were those now-NFL players ranked when coming out of HS?

I guess where I'm going with the question is this - were those NFL players highly regarded as 18 year olds? Were their apparent talent as juniors/seniors recognized in how their recruiting classes were rated? And then are there any Barber/Maroney/Spaeth/etc. type players in any of Brew's classes? Any that will end up being that good but weren't so highly rated out of HS? Evaluating recruiting just seems so inexact to me that I'm struggling with understanding how to even evaluate it outside of blindly following Rivals?

Maroney was a 4-star and also had offers from Iowa, Missouri, and Wisconsin. I don't think anyone thought he would be as good as he was in college, but it was the perfect fit of scheme and skills. I think his NFL experience has showed that the Mason/Browning offense made him look better than he is.

As for Barber, he was a pretty decent prospect coming out of Wayzata, but for whatever reason he was not very heavily recruited. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Gophers were his only D-I offer. At any rate, he was initially more of a legacy recruit than anything (his dad MB Jr. played RB here) and they were planning to play him at DB because we already had Redmon, T. Jackson, and Tapeh on the roster. But he was a stud RB in HS, and really wanted to play there, so they gave him a shot in preseason camps, the offensive staff said "we've really got something here," and the rest is history.

To your last question about Brewster's recruits - they're all too young to know for sure. From what we've seen so far out of Cooper and Carter, I think they can be as good or better than any of the recent Gophers in the NFL. Of course, they were both 4-star recruits, so their success is unsurprising. As for the "less heralded recruits," I guarantee there will be other NFL players in the '08-'10 classes, but we just don't know for sure yet. Too early to tell.

 

[[censored]]

This is one of my frustrations. Brew was brought here and tabbed as a "Super Recruiter" by everybody and his brother from Maturi to Lemming to Mack Brown, not as an average recruiter. We are giving him credit for trying?!? "Well he really tried hard to get Seantrel so that is all you can ask." Just because he made a home visit? That is what we get from our so called Super Recruiter? All coaches make home visits. Good grief. If he is as good of a recruiter as we heard upon his arrival in 07 he needs to land the big-time kids in the home state. That was why we all were so excited about his hire. I gave him a pass on Floyd cause it was late in the game when he got here, but good grief, what is he hanging his hat on, Sam Maresh? Anybody can lose home state kids, but a super recruiter keeps them. I am already not impressed with him as a coach, so he sure as hell needs to start impressing me as a recuiter. Giving him a pass on kids that don't stay here because he tried hard is ridiculous.

I think you have to look at what programs he does beat out from time to time with in-state and OOS kids. Beating out Florida for two bigtime offensive recruits in the same year is reason to not be such a doubter. And face it, a recruit like Seantrel Henderson has his pick of anywhere when it comes to college ball. If you get upset if and when he commits elsewhere, then it's clear that you don't have a shred of any realistic expectation when it comes to recruiting.

I'm a Texas fan, and Mack Brown does as good a job as any coach when it comes to locking down the state borders and keeping talent in-state. But every year there are a few recruits from Texas that we would have liked to have gotten that go elsewhere, and surprise surpirse... they are some of the most highly regarded. So don't get your panties in a wad when a few of the kids from Minnesota go elsewhere, especially when you compare the current status of two programs like Texas and Minnesota.

 

[[censored]]

He couldn't even recruit one of his own kids to play for him. Yeah, Nolan Brewster had always dreamed of playing for Texas blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's a common response for the runner-up.

Hmmm. Let's see. Austin, Tx where he was a ball boy and grew up for some time, and being at a current national power and possibly playing for a national championship this year, or Minnesota?

Some of you people are seriously, completely, and hopelessly delusional when it comes to recruiting kids to your school. Get real.

 

[[censored]]

So we can only beat teams we have better talent than, but we can't get better talent than them because we can only over recruit so much.

I guess we're on a 10 year arc until we can be competitive with tOSU and PSU and 15 year arc until we can beat them?

Recruiting is better, but Brewster is far from a god in recruiting. We should always be disappointed we didn't land the big recruits, not understanding.

Yeah, that's exactly your problem. You don't understand recruiting. You are just another hopelessly delusional fan that thinks every top notch kid should jump at the chance to play in Minnesota. Minnesota. Let me say that again. Minnesota.

Wake up. As others have said previously in this thread, a good number of decent recruits you have gotten recently decided to be a Gopher because of Brewster. Not Minneosta. Get it?

 

[Clyde Tester]

I'm a Texas fan, and Mack Brown does as good a job as any coach when it comes to locking down the state borders and keeping talent in-state.

That's what worries me a bit about Josh Huff. People seem to be excited about this three-star out of Texas, but he was offered by only Baylor and Houston. Hopefully he's one of the anomalies!

 

[[censored]]

Oh fun can I play?!! It's not boom, its boom goes the dynamite. (I love Family Guy)And yes coaching does have something to do with it and I wonder how much time you spent looking up those stats that don't prove Shi!. We had neither coaching nor recruiting when Mason was here. We at least have one of those with Brew. Brew has a learning curve because this is his first HC job, if he was proven we would have never gotten him to begin with. He finally has a system in place and (fingers crossed) some stability in the Coord. department. Let Brew bring in the talent and be the cheerleader and speech giver and let the Coordinators coach the kids up. It feels like everyone is jumping ship right before we are about to get it turned around. Give it some time for gods sake worst thing that can happen is we go 500 the next two or three years, make a few worthless bowl games and we are no worse off then before we got him. I bet if we had a coach on the opposite side of the coaching spectrum you'd be saying the exact opposite in that we need the talent and then the coaching heh?

Excellent post, minibeaver. You are the first to mention that the loss of coordinators may have had an effect on the momentum that had been built previous to this year. Sometimes it's on the administration to pony up the cash to keep certain people around. When that doesn't happen you sometimes have to take your chances with the next coordinators, which doesn't work out that well when your program is currently where Minnesota's is.

 

[PlayHosea]

That's what worries me a bit about Josh Huff. People seem to be excited about this three-star out of Texas, but he was offered by only Baylor and Houston. Hopefully he's one of the anomalies!

Rivals says he had offers from 11 schools, including Utah, TCU, Colorado and Mizzou.

 

[Clyde Tester]

Rivals says he had offers from 11 schools, including Utah, TCU, Colorado and Mizzou.

I missed the TCU offer - my bad. I am glad he got the other offers as well and 11 is a very good number. I was just pointing out that the big-time Texas schools didn't show interest apparently directly to the other poster's point. Both CU and Mizzou could have used a RB for sure.

 

[50PoundHead]

It shouldn't be about Mason. But Mason had done such a wonderful job of ticking of the state's high school football establishment that he was never going to do well in Minnesota.

The fact that Brewster is allowed in the door at Cretin-Derham Hall is progress given his predecessor.

I like Brewster's energy and I hope he can land a couple more solid recruits this year. Given all the scholarships this year, I was hoping he wouldn't have been handing them out so quickly.

The jury's still out on Brewster to me as it pertains to on-field and recruiting results, but I can't fault his energy.

 

[caliGopher]

Yeah, that's exactly your problem. You don't understand recruiting. You are just another hopelessly delusional fan that thinks every top notch kid should jump at the chance to play in Minnesota. Minnesota. Let me say that again. Minnesota.

Wake up. As others have said previously in this thread, a good number of decent recruits you have gotten recently decided to be a Gopher because of Brewster. Not Minneosta. Get it?

My understanding of recruiting is better than your reading comprehension, that's all I can glean from your less than witty response.

Dillusional is thinking I expect kids to jump at the chance of playing at Minnesota under Brewster when they can pick and chose among the elite schools. Expecting a super recruiter to actually land the top guy in the state (Michael Floyd) at a huge need position for your program (WR) I know is a huge stretch. If he's so great at getting kids to come play for him (Not Minnesota ) I am disappointed that we didn't land him. Does that mean it's a failure? No. In fact we got most of the kids we wanted in Minnesota, but he might have helped a little this year.

Does it mean we didn't land the top kid? Yup, and that shouldn't be "no big deal." Brewster was hired to make that happen. That doesn't mean Brewster failed overall which seems to be the illogical conclusion to my thoughts. It just means it could have been better and to speed the process of the 15 year plan we appear to be on to take a step forward from where we were 3 years ago.