Blake can't score against more athletic teams?

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The Blake debate continues because their are two extreme groups. Blake Hoffarber is certainly not in the category of guys like Willie Burton, Bobby Jackson, Voshon Lenard, Trent Tucker, etc. Those guys were no.1 options who could score in a variety of ways and all were on of the top players in the entire country at times during their careers. Blake also is not a guy who is lucky to have a Big Ten scholarship and should be on the end of the bench somewhere. He's one of the better catch and shoot guys in the entire country, and has proven to be a very effective passer.
 

dboy said:
dboy has spent the night on the carolina website razzing them... :clap:
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So what you're saying is that you're our version of Pantherhawk? Go play with your light saber and write some more Harry Potter reviews.
 

I do get tired of all the ripping on The Hoff. he was clearly an asset tonight and he is an asset in most games he plays. he has gotten better each year and should have a fabulous year to finish off his collegiate career.
 

EG#9 said:
Blake also is not a guy who is lucky to have a Big Ten scholarship and should be on the end of the bench somewhere. He's one of the better catch and shoot guys in the entire country, and has proven to be a very effective passer.
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In my opinion the best part of that dunk Mbakwe had on Zeller was the awesome bounce pass from Blake.
 

TheHofferette said:
I do get tired of all the ripping on The Hoff. he was clearly an asset tonight and he is an asset in most games he plays. he has gotten better each year and should have a fabulous year to finish off his collegiate career.
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He's off to a damn good start! I think those who rip on Blake have been adequately exposed for what they are.

sanowai said:
In my opinion the best part of that dunk Mbakwe had on Zeller was the awesome bounce pass from Blake.
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Yep! Great to see a guy (Mmm) that can convert that pass aggressively and quickly.
 


dboy said:
dboy is happy.
dboy almost threw the radio out the window when Mo chuked up the 3 and then gave up an and-1.
dboy has spent the night on the carolina website razzing them... :clap:


dboy did say both harrision and sullinger were overrated.
hoff is a surprise... i though he'd fade this year with the rise of the freshman... but after 4 straight TO's with that bunch in the first half, their time has not yet arrived.
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It's aweful early to call Harrison or Sullinger over rated.
 

The pass to Trevor for a dunk was a thing of beauty. Brought me out of my chair.
 

Blake had a decent Freshman year. Struggled as a Sophomore. Was pretty decent last year. This year he has been outstanding for the first four games. If he keeps this up, he will certainly have a place with the other players. Maybe not on a Tucker, Burton level, but certainly a fan favorite local kid. Plus we can't forget his winning shot in HS or his winning shot vs. Indiana.
 

I have never been a huge Blake guy, but I do think he could be in the rotation for about any top team in the country. I still dont think he is a 1 or 2 option on a dominant team, but he is a very good college player. That game last night was excellent.
 



chi-town gopher said:
That is not showing a lot of respect to Blake, those guys were terrible for significant portions of their career and won the fans over by improving. Blake had a shaky sophomore year but has been great in all his other years.

I don't know if he is a Tucker, Burton, or Jackson but he can be in a group with guys like Voshon and Sam Jacobson. Great player, loved by the fans, many memorable moments, and a definite impact guy.
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Difference of opinions. Voshon & Sammy were the go-to-guy on their teams, could create their own shots or take you off the dribble & we're NBA drafts choices/athletes. Blake is not capable of taking the team on his shoulders every night (He can for portions of a game or on a given night), has never been the go-to-guy on this team & I'd bet money he doesn't play in the NBA. I envision Blake having a nice Dusty Rychart type career in Australia or somewhere. This is not condemnation of Blake, I'm a fan, I appreciate his contributions, but I also recognize he's got a role & has limitations.
 

I was accused via text last night that I have a "deep rooted hatred for the kid," because I don't worship him.

Blake was good last night. He made shots. He is passing the ball better.

But all this talk about him being one of the greatest players in the program is ridiculous. From the Barn suggested that he could be in the rafters. C'mon people.

Blake was able to score last night against Carolina, but part of the reason why I think he's a fine to above average player. I don't think he's a great player because there have been too many games against ranked teams in which he has been a non-factor or had minimal impact on the game.

Even with the 20 last night, he has averaged only 6.8 ppg in games against ranked opponents. In 11 games last season against ranked teams he was in double figures four times (12 vs. Butler, 10 vs. OSU on 1/31, 16 vs. Wisconsin on 2/18 and 14 against Michigan State in the BTT).

He also scored a COMBINED 11 points in three games against Purdue. He didn't score against Ohio State in the BTT championship game while playing 31 minutes. He score only six points against Xavier in the NCAA tournament.

Great players don't have as wide of point totals against good teams as Blake has.

Blake enters this season with 842 points.

Just for the sake of comparison, here are some players in the 4-year era who had similar numbers as Blake through three seasons. It's not a total list, but rather a list of guys who had comparable first three seasons in terms of points scored.

Mike Bauer: 922
Randy Carter: 787
Dan Coleman: 923
Tommy Davis: 946
Moe Hargrow 719
Quincy Lewis 989
Kevin Lynch 849
Arriel McDonald 922
Darryl Mitchell 799
Dusty Rychart 863
Terrance Simmons 837
Marc Wilson 899


He is in fine company, but not elite company.

Couple of other numbers

- Lawrence McKenzie scored 862 points in two years

Here are some of the top numbers through three years:
Sam Jacobson 1127
Voshon Lenard 1097
Melvin Newbern 1224
Trent Tucker 1015
Mychal Thompson 1529
Kevin McHale 1147


My bottom line: Blake is a fine player, but this talk of him being an all-time great is a bit premature.
 

Anonymous, it's not all about the points (or 3's for that matter). It's his ability to come out and play point in important situations, it's the fact that he probably has the best court vision on the team, and it's the fact that he inexplicably keeps pulling down boards when everyone says he's so unathletic. He's much more versatile than he gets credit for.
 

anonymous said:
My bottom line: Blake is a fine player, but this talk of him being an all-time great is a bit premature.
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Good analysis. However, I'm not sure anyone is calling Blake an all-time great. I *have* heard these types of things:

1. Very fun player to watch
2. Very important member of this team - difference maker
3. Very good and at times amazing 3 point shooter
4. Very high b-ball IQ.
5. Special spot in our hearts because we've watched him since 10th grade do some amazing things
6. Especially impressed with what he brings to the table in terms of overall package, particularly because he is not extremely quick or athletic.
7. Very smart and understands and avoids stupid plays, plays outside his role or abilities.

Is he one of the Gopher all-time greats? Doubtful. Is he John Wall or Bobby Jackson? C'mon. Of course not. But, in my opinion, he's all of the above. Anyone who thinks this team would be better off if he would play only 10 minutes per game doesn't watch or understand the game very well.

Here's hoping he takes the next step and doesn't get shut down in scoring, the way you (correctly) mention. He's one for one so far, I'd say. That's a good start.
 



anonymous said:
Blake was good last night. He made shots. He is passing the ball better.
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"Passing the ball better"..."better"? His floor game has been off the charts so far this year; your lack of enthusiasm re: Hoffarber is typical based on your previous posts, but you can't deny his passing game lately. He has 24 assists through 4 games?!

P.S. I think you also missed his game last year vs. OSU where he had 27 pts at home, they were #24 at the time.

Regardless, I don't think he will be mentioned with the likes of Burton, Jackson, etc. impact-wise, but those that said earlier that he's similar to a Tarver, Orr, or Bauer are off too; probably somewhere in between.

A solid 4 year career with 1000+ pts, the all-time MN 3-point record, strong all-around floor game, stellar work in the classroom at Carlson (Loew's Senior Class Award nominee, Williams Award, etc.), sticking with the home team when he had way better offers...I think Gopher fans will always remember his contributions to our school.
 

Year of the Gopher: I get that he sees the floor well and that he's a smart player. But the thing is to me is that it it 100 percent about the points. A year ago, the Gophers were a good team and won games when Blake made shots. When he didn't make shots, they lost more than they won.

I would have liked to have seen him develop something of a midrange game so that when he gets crowded on the perimeter, he could bounce it a couple of times and elevate for a 16 footer. That would give him more room on the perimeter.

GopherJake: I think people have said he's one of the all-time greats. On this thread it was said that he's at the same level of Sam Jacobson. That is, IMHO, crazy talk.

We will see if he gets shut down. He has passed one test against a good team. Sunday will be another test as Huggins stresses defense in a way that is similar to Izzo and Painter -- two coaches who have gotten the better of Blake over time.
 

I didnt read the whole thread but I am sure its been mentioned that UNC is not exactly known for defending the 3. Blake is such a key ingredient to the Gophers success but athletic BigTen teams will do a much better job shutting him down than UNC.
 

ShowinGoldy:

I used opponent rankings off of Gophersports.com schedules. That isn't listed as a ranked game. It also wasn't listed as a ranked game on espn.com.

Depending on what he does this season, he could end up with numbers similar to Kevin Lynch. Blake would have to have a great senior season for that to happen. If he can do that, that will be an accomplishment. Especially considering that Lynch was on two teams that won games in the NCAA tournament and one that was within a whisker of going to the Final Four.
 

anonymous said:
I would have liked to have seen him develop something of a midrange game so that when he gets crowded on the perimeter, he could bounce it a couple of times and elevate for a 16 footer. That would give him more room on the perimeter.
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Don't know if you've seen all of the games yet this year, but he's had a number of plays where he has pump faked on the perimeter, and hit a mid-range jumper...probably done it 3-4 times in the past couple of games. Looks to be something that worked on in the off-season, as I don't remember him hitting those mid-range jumpers in previous years.
 

Showin -- I was at the Siena game and watched almost all of last night. Blake has five non 3s all season -- that includes layups.

If he can hit midrange jumpers, he will have more room. But I wish the kid would have figured that out two years ago.
 


anonymous said:
Year of the Gopher: I get that he sees the floor well and that he's a smart player. But the thing is to me is that it it 100 percent about the points. A year ago, the Gophers were a good team and won games when Blake made shots. When he didn't make shots, they lost more than they won.
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It shouldn't be 100% about the points. Do you think Travarus Bennett was a terrible player because he didn't score much?

Anyway, I think Blake is doing the mid-range thing now, which is an improvement over the past. That said, if he's got the ball on the perimeter and he thinks he can hit the 3, he should take it over going for the 17 footer. If he doesn't think he can hit the three but someone's open down low, passing is also the better play. In my mind, putting the ball on the floor to take the mid-range J is option #3 for him, one that he has now used a few times this year. It's a good third option as it also allows him to come inside the 3pt line and dish to someone else because defenses will now be forced to defend that shot.
 

Blake is the straw that stirs the drink on this team. MVP of the squad thus far. No doubt about it. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand college basketball.
 

As the person who threw out the names Tucker, Burton and Jackson in reference to Hoff earlier in this thread, I feel the need to clarify (as often happens the longer these threads go!).

My point, and its entirely debatable, is that as far as contributions to the program/memorable moments/being a local kid who makes good/clutch play, Blake will be very fondly remembered by Gopher fans for many years.

I never intended to suggest that he's as good as Willie Burton or would have the NBA career of Trent Tucker or Bobby Jackson. That was never my point.

The point is that people like him. And, in addition to the shot a few years back in the Big Ten tourney, I feel that there will be several more moments from him this year that are going to be pretty fun. That's all.
 

jags1998 said:
As the person who threw out the names Tucker, Burton and Jackson in reference to Hoff earlier in this thread, I feel the need to clarify (as often happens the longer these threads go!)................

The point is that people like him. And, in addition to the shot a few years back in the Big Ten tourney, I feel that there will be several more moments from him this year that are going to be pretty fun. That's all.
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Exactly. That is how I interpreted your comments.

Also, let's not forget, Blake has (hopefully) about 30 more games to prove himself. In my mind, I have seen him do a lot of things already that he has historically been reluctant to try. Perhaps Blake's willingness to try these things now is because he has worked on them very very hard and knows the team needs this more than ever from him. Would it have been nice if he learned them earlier? Duh. But if he wasn't good enough, then he sure shouldn't have tried it and turned into a turnover machine. Doesn't that make sense?

I actually agree with anonymous when he says - paraphrasing - Blake can't get shut down scoringwise in every pressure D game and expect this team to get where it wants to get. Blake's scoring is needed **most** nights for us to win.
 

anonymous said:
I was accused via text last night that I have a "deep rooted hatred for the kid," because I don't worship him.

Blake was good last night. He made shots. He is passing the ball better.

But all this talk about him being one of the greatest players in the program is ridiculous. From the Barn suggested that he could be in the rafters. C'mon people.

Blake was able to score last night against Carolina, but part of the reason why I think he's a fine to above average player. I don't think he's a great player because there have been too many games against ranked teams in which he has been a non-factor or had minimal impact on the game.

Even with the 20 last night, he has averaged only 6.8 ppg in games against ranked opponents. In 11 games last season against ranked teams he was in double figures four times (12 vs. Butler, 10 vs. OSU on 1/31, 16 vs. Wisconsin on 2/18 and 14 against Michigan State in the BTT).

He also scored a COMBINED 11 points in three games against Purdue. He didn't score against Ohio State in the BTT championship game while playing 31 minutes. He score only six points against Xavier in the NCAA tournament.

Great players don't have as wide of point totals against good teams as Blake has.

Blake enters this season with 842 points.

Just for the sake of comparison, here are some players in the 4-year era who had similar numbers as Blake through three seasons. It's not a total list, but rather a list of guys who had comparable first three seasons in terms of points scored.

Mike Bauer: 922
Randy Carter: 787
Dan Coleman: 923
Tommy Davis: 946
Moe Hargrow 719
Quincy Lewis 989
Kevin Lynch 849
Arriel McDonald 922
Darryl Mitchell 799
Dusty Rychart 863
Terrance Simmons 837
Marc Wilson 899


He is in fine company, but not elite company.

Couple of other numbers

- Lawrence McKenzie scored 862 points in two years

Here are some of the top numbers through three years:
Sam Jacobson 1127
Voshon Lenard 1097
Melvin Newbern 1224
Trent Tucker 1015
Mychal Thompson 1529
Kevin McHale 1147


My bottom line: Blake is a fine player, but this talk of him being an all-time great is a bit premature.
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The thing you can't take away from Blake and Al is that they will play on four 20 win season teams with three NCAA tournaments and one BTT championship game....who else on your lists can say that???? No One. Blake and Al for that matter are not all time great players but I will say they are all time great team mates and have earned our praise and thanks. If we make a run in the NCAAs this year...it will be on thier backs.
 

anonymous said:
I was accused via text last night that I have a "deep rooted hatred for the kid," because I don't worship him.

Blake was good last night. He made shots. He is passing the ball better.

But all this talk about him being one of the greatest players in the program is ridiculous. From the Barn suggested that he could be in the rafters. C'mon people.

Blake was able to score last night against Carolina, but part of the reason why I think he's a fine to above average player. I don't think he's a great player because there have been too many games against ranked teams in which he has been a non-factor or had minimal impact on the game.

Even with the 20 last night, he has averaged only 6.8 ppg in games against ranked opponents. In 11 games last season against ranked teams he was in double figures four times (12 vs. Butler, 10 vs. OSU on 1/31, 16 vs. Wisconsin on 2/18 and 14 against Michigan State in the BTT).

He also scored a COMBINED 11 points in three games against Purdue. He didn't score against Ohio State in the BTT championship game while playing 31 minutes. He score only six points against Xavier in the NCAA tournament.

Great players don't have as wide of point totals against good teams as Blake has.

Blake enters this season with 842 points.

Just for the sake of comparison, here are some players in the 4-year era who had similar numbers as Blake through three seasons. It's not a total list, but rather a list of guys who had comparable first three seasons in terms of points scored.

Mike Bauer: 922
Randy Carter: 787
Dan Coleman: 923
Tommy Davis: 946
Moe Hargrow 719
Quincy Lewis 989
Kevin Lynch 849
Arriel McDonald 922
Darryl Mitchell 799
Dusty Rychart 863
Terrance Simmons 837
Marc Wilson 899


He is in fine company, but not elite company.

Couple of other numbers

- Lawrence McKenzie scored 862 points in two years

Here are some of the top numbers through three years:
Sam Jacobson 1127
Voshon Lenard 1097
Melvin Newbern 1224
Trent Tucker 1015
Mychal Thompson 1529
Kevin McHale 1147


My bottom line: Blake is a fine player, but this talk of him being an all-time great is a bit premature.
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Me thinks thou doth protesteth too much.
 

anonymous;306598GopherJake: On this thread it was said that he's at the same level of Sam Jacobson. That is said:
Yes and no. Is he as talented as Sam? No way. Is he as important? More so imo. As ChemE wrote, he is the straw that stirs the drink. Sam had more help in his day.
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ChemEGopher said:
Blake is the straw that stirs the drink on this team. MVP of the squad thus far. No doubt about it. Anyone who can't see that doesn't understand college basketball.
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Agreed 100%. Not grounds for retiring his jersey though. That's all I'm saying.
 

Blake Hoffarber is rapidly moving up the all-time list of greatest MN BB players ever. I mean, who has had 1) a better HS career with a moment like the "butt shot" not to mention 2 state titles at the highest level, and 2) a better career at the U of M including the game-winner against Indiana in the Big Ten tournament.

Trivia question--what 3 players ever started and won a MN state HS championship and a Big Ten championship?

Harold Gillen Stillwater 1914 and Gopher all-American 1917
Dick Seebach Red Wing 1933 and Gophers 1937
Randy Breuer Lake City 1978-1979 and Gophers 1982

A Big Ten title is a long shot in 2010 but Hoffarber could join this list.
 

I think all of his teammates had two state titles at the highest level, if I understand this team game correctly. Who has had a better career at the U? Plenty of guys. He's a great player but can we not turn him into John Henry quite yet?
 

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