Big Ten to push for 12th team

[Sour1729]

Am I way off base for suggesting that a Big 12 team would not see a move to the Big 10 as anything to get excited over? Why would a team make that jump?

Academics.

Notre Dame
Pitt
Rutgers

These are the only three that would work academically and location-wise. Pitt and Rutgers are both research institutions that fit in the Big Ten mold as far as rankings, etc.

Notre Dame is not a research institution but the academics are good and the location/fanbase is ideal.

I would be happy with any of these and would be fine with Iowa State or Nebraska. Anything else should be a big no for various reasons.

 

[GopherRock]

Folks, there will be no one from the Big 12 jumping ship to here. Lest you forget that the Kansas-Nebraska-Missouri triangle have been playing each other just as long as Minnesota-Iowa-Wisconsin have been playing each other, and you don't hear of any of us three going to the B12 to replace Colorado when they eventually go west.

I do not think anything else happens. For some reason I think this is nothing more than Barry posturing.

I'm no hockey guy, but I am also strongly opposed to the breakup of the WCHA.

 

[Handsome Pete]

One and only choice

There is one and only choice for #12, and that school is the University of Pittsburgh. Top flight athletics, and top flight Big Ten academics, sitting at #56 in the US News rankings.

Anyone who thinks Iowa State, Kentucky or Nebraska have the academic chops to be a Big Ten school are fooling themselves. What we have to worry about is the Big Ten brass being greedy and stupid enough to pick that POS Rutgers because of the supposed boon it will bring BTN.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

1. Splitting divisions in the big ten randomly like the ACC instead of geographically like the SEC and Big12 would be a HUGE mistake. Honestly, I can't name the different teams in the ACC divisions. You have to split them east/west.

2. Obvious choice is Notre Dame. Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Cincy are also possibilities but way further down the list. I think HandsomePete is right that some might push for Rutgers because it's close to NYC but that would be a huge mistake IMHO.

3. BigTen hockey conference would be a boon to the conference members but would hurt college hockey as a whole.

 

[mnboiler]

Taking Notre Dame into the Big 10 would be a mistake. There football fans are very entitled-they believe simply because they are ND they should play in the NC game every year. See ND rules to get into the BSC for example.

I love the idea of Pitt. It brings Penn State a little closer mentally. Penn State is still in the middle of nowhere. Great academics. Great basketball. Great football. Great tradition. The only thing I would worry about is the Steelers. In Pittsburgh are the Steelers are king and alway will be. I know the Gophers have the same problem but not to the same extent. Also the Panthers play there home games in Heinz Field(sound familiar to anyone?)

As of hockey(not a great hockey mind or even follow hockey all that close) but how about putting together a "super-conference." You get the B10 schools(Minn, Wisco, MSU, Mich, OSU) then add in NoDak and Notre Dame. That puts you at 7 so you would atleast need one more. Who would that be I don't know. If you could come up with a TV agreement with the Big Ten Network I would think that you would see a boom to college hockey for the schools involved.

 

[magpie]

we have a much better rivalry going with North Dakota St. in hockey than we do with Michigan in football.

Only someone that does not have a hockey background like an Alvarez doesn't see the real value of the WCHA.

Yes, and you really showed how great the rivalry is...

 

[Handsome Pete]

1. Splitting divisions in the big ten randomly like the ACC instead of geographically like the SEC and Big12 would be a HUGE mistake. Honestly, I can't name the different teams in the ACC divisions. You have to split them east/west.

2. Obvious choice is Notre Dame. Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and Cincy are also possibilities but way further down the list. I think HandsomePete is right that some might push for Rutgers because it's close to NYC but that would be a huge mistake IMHO.

3. BigTen hockey conference would be a boon to the conference members but would hurt college hockey as a whole.

I'm sure this has been posted above, but I want to do it again. If we added Pitt, the West/East conferences would be:

West
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Iowa
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana

East
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Purdue

Seems (currently) somewhat lopsided to the East for football, but to the West for basketball. Of course, it does not and should not matter if the divisions are lopsided. Just look at the Big 12. It actually adds to the competition and national focus.

 

[year of the gopher]

alvarez is all about a big ten hockey conference and a 12th football team in the BT. he does not seem happy with the status quo at all. i do agree with him on creating a big ten hockey conference.

there is very little prestige playing in a hockey conference with nebraska-omaha, bemidji state, michigan tech, etc. give me: ohio state, michigan, michigan state, penn state, notre dame, illinois, minnesota, wisky d!ck.

First, I don't get why a couple of you (magpie, you're the other) think that who plays hockey should have anything to do with a 12th Big Ten team. It's not a big ten sport right now and hopefully never will be.

Second, as a hockey fan, I can tell you that nothing would do more to destroy college hockey than creating a big ten hockey conference. Alvarez is clueless about hockey, so he doesn't get it and probably never will. It would create total disarray for the remaining WCHA schools, which would then have to pick up schools from other conferences creating disarray for those conferences. The result undoubtedly would be that some smaller conferences would be left without enough teams and programs would start to fold. Gopher hockey has more to lose from the demise of college hockey than it gains from a BT hockey conference.

On top of that, how do these things sound:
-Eliminate rivalry games with North Dakota, UMD, St Cloud, (sorry Mankato, you still don't count as a rivalry). You might be able to keep a couple of those or rotate, but losing the annual conference matchups would destroy the rivalries.
-No longer playing the regular top ten teams of CC and Denver
-No longer having the Final Five in St Paul each year (which it will be as long as the Xcel Center wants it)

Lastly, Bronko, Illinois and Penn State don't have D1 hockey and probably never will even if a BT hockey conference is created. With Title 9 restrictions, it is just too expensive to start up a program that you can't be sure will make money...see OSU, which brings me to my next point. Ohio State, for as good as they are in football and sometimes hoops, is a horrible hockey program. They lack any serious fan support, play in a concrete mausoleum built for basketball, and have a hideous record of post-season success.

 

[jovs]

Notre Dame, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and Cornell are the front runners last I heard. The reason is they want Notre Dame (for obvious reasons), or an eastern school that can represent a large media market.

As long as the school plays hockey, I'm cool with it.

I would think that the ability to have a football playoff game would be the primary reason for adding a 12th school with expansion of markets the second. If Athletic directors were making a choice it would be Notre Dame for obvious reasons.

Somehow I don't think Athletic directors would be making the decision. I think University presidents would have the biggest voice with faculity having as big a voice as athletic departments. I don't think Notre Dame fits the mold from that perspective.

The list is an interesting mix of academics, market expansion, and athletics.

 

[station19]

If you added Pitt you could have two geographical divisions.

NORTH
Pitt
Penn St
Mich
Mich St
Wisconsin
Minnesota

SOUTH
Iowa
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
Ohio St

If the Big Ten goes to 12 teams and the Big 12 goes to 10 teams should they trade names?

 

[UptownMaroon&Gold]

Not that it would necessarily be the best for us. But if the big ten is desperate,...I think Rutgers would be the one raising their hand to join. Gets the big ten into new york a little bit, but more importantly, Rutgers has doesn't have a lot of history in the big east and their rivalries are not that strong there. Joined the A-10 in 1978, then split for the Big East in 1991 in football, (all sports by 1995).

I would rather have Pitt or the 'Cuse, but I think their basketball allegiances/rivalries in the big east are too strong for them to want to leave. If they started playing in the big ten, they wouldnt be able to recruit all the kids from NYC as strongly.

 

[Al_4_State]

Folks, there will be no one from the Big 12 jumping ship to here. Lest you forget that the Kansas-Nebraska-Missouri triangle have been playing each other just as long as Minnesota-Iowa-Wisconsin have been playing each other, and you don't hear of any of us three going to the B12 to replace Colorado when they eventually go west.

I do not think anything else happens. For some reason I think this is nothing more than Barry posturing.

I'm no hockey guy, but I am also strongly opposed to the breakup of the WCHA.

As an ISU fan, I'd join the Big 10 in a heart beat. 1) No more Texas and Oklahoma. 2) On TV every weekend. 3) Revenue sharing. 4) Forcing the dip *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#s in Iowa City to accept it when we beat them.

I don't see anyone leaving the Big East for the Big 10. It's stupid. They have a good TV package and in football, they don't have an Ohio State hanging over the conference. The Big East is wide open every year, and I don't see why any school would logically choose to go from having a good shot at being top dog, to having to get through tOSU every year.

I think it's going to be a Big 12 school as the Big 12 provides a harder road to the BCS, a TERRIBLE TV contract, and no revenue sharing.

 

[alpinegopher]

I'm not sure Michigan and Ohio St would want to be in different divisions. Very often they could end up playing each other on the last weekend and then again the next week in the title game. Could happen with other matchups but not as likely. I don't know if that adds to the rivalry(which I couldn't care less about) or adds to it.

Also if Pitt is added, does that mean Mich St and Wisky play on the final weekend? All the other matchups would be pretty much set. Pitt/Penn St would be a sweet ending to their regular seasons. With Pitt added the final weekend gets much better in my opinion.

I think the name swap is funny. I'm sure the Big 12 would be more than happy if Iowa St and Colorado left.

 

[Torres9]

I would love a 12th team in the B10, but I don't think that team will come from a state that doesn't have a current B10 team in it. ND and Pitt are the obvious choices. I cannot imagine anyone from the B12 (except maybe ISU) or SEC. No way the B10 would want Rutgers or L'ville.

The B10 hockey conference will never happen. This is Alverez's pipe dream, virtually no one else supports it, the WCHA is too strong (personally, I am open to the idea by the way, but it is not going to happen).

Under the current set up, ND makes too much money to join the B10, but I think the NCAA should require every team to be in a conference.

 

[ISU_phoria]

There is one and only choice for #12, and that school is the University of Pittsburgh. Top flight athletics, and top flight Big Ten academics, sitting at #56 in the US News rankings.

Anyone who thinks Iowa State, Kentucky or Nebraska have the academic chops to be a Big Ten school are fooling themselves. What we have to worry about is the Big Ten brass being greedy and stupid enough to pick that POS Rutgers because of the supposed boon it will bring BTN.

I'm definitely not trying to be a troll here, but you obviously haven't done any ivestigation into your assertion about academics. Iowa State would be in the top half of the Big Ten academically if they were to join. (I'm from the Twin Cities & chose ISU over several Big Ten Schools because of academics). ISU gives the B10 two of the three criteria (academics & geography), but won't help at all with market share.

Being a Big XII fan, I would hate to see ISU in the B10. But, if it did happen, I would love the new rivalries & the ability to watch them on TV more often. (Again, because I live in the Cities)

 

[maxwellsmart]

Disagree very strongly about breaking up the WCHA. It is undoubtedly the premiere college hockey conference in the country. Also Illinois and Penn State only have club teams so wouldn't qualify, leaving only MN, Mich, MSU, OSU, and Wisc. as Big 10 teams with hockey programs. I would much rather stick with the WCHA and great geographical rivalries against many great programs.

I would PREFER the WCHA also, being an unapologetic traditionalist. But the world turns, usually for the better. If ND comes into the B10 it may be time to make a change. See B10 Network. Six in a conference has been done somewhere before in hockey. If the powers that be actually want more numbers in a hockey conference it wouldn't be all that difficult to start a program at, well I'll let you guys fill in the blank of you're interested.

 

[WAGopher]

I'm not sold on adding another team to the Big 10 mainly because I don't like the idea of a conference championship game. Yes, it's a revenue generator, but it seems unnecessary in other respects. One of BA's points is that the Big Ten season ends too early takes the national spotlight off the conference for 2 weeks while it shines on the teams that are still playing. So why not adjust the scheduling to end the Big Ten season the first week of December? This year, it would have added a bye and all teams could still have Thanksgiving weekend off, or some could play if they desired and end their season a week early. Then all rivalry games could be played on Thanksgiving weekend or the first weekend in December.

This keeps the spotlight on the Big 10 without the need to add another team or have a championship game. It also gives all teams at least one bye week during the season, which usually helps teams stay healthy.

 

[Schnoodler]

It seems adding a couple of bye weeks would strengthen the B10 in post season play. The down side is you postpone games until later in the year which isn't good from a weather standpoint. The rest and additional practice time on fundamentals would have a huge payoff.

I realize we can get that rest after the season like we do now, but it's not the same as in season.

 

[Bo Darville]

I wouldn't doubt that they pick a team to get their cable network on in another big market. Syracuse and Rutgers would get them on in NYC, for example.

 

[mnboiler]

I was just thinking about traditional rivaliries for team to end the year on. And if Pitt was added I would think it would look something like
Purdue-IU
Minn-Iowa
OSU-Mich
NW-ILL
Pitt-PSU
MSU-Wis

That would suck for MSU and Wisconsin. Nothing really big there. Now if we say ISU joins I think it would go
Purdue-IU
Minn-Wis
Iowa-ISU
NW-ILL
OSU-Mich
MSU-PSU

IMO that would be a much bigger weekend. By the way how did MSU and Penn State become "rivals"? Any MSU or PSU lurkers here that can answer that for me.

Any way I still say Pitt for the 12th member.

 

[MplsHawk]

I'm definitely not trying to be a troll here, but you obviously haven't done any ivestigation into your assertion about academics. Iowa State would be in the top half of the Big Ten academically if they were to join. (I'm from the Twin Cities & chose ISU over several Big Ten Schools because of academics). ISU gives the B10 two of the three criteria (academics & geography), but won't help at all with market share.

Top half of the Big 10 academically? You sure about that? From everything I have ever read, I would have guessed dead last in the B10 academically, and I am not saying ISU is a bad school. I would personally like to see ISU in the B10 btw.

 

[ISU_phoria]

Top half of the Big 10 academically? You sure about that? From everything I have ever read, I would have guessed dead last in the B10 academically, and I am not saying ISU is a bad school. I would personally like to see ISU in the B10 btw.

Wow, I can hardly believe a hawk fan would be talking smack about ISU?! I would gladly compare ISU vs Iowa academics any day of the week. You know what they say in Iowa....There's no need to go to school at Iowa, I already have my High School diploma!

Sorry Gopher fans, I won't continue this on your board any futher!

 

[GoldenJayhawk]

I didn't say that I wanted them, I just listed the last top 5 that I heard when this topic was last discussed. The thought of them blew my mind too, but in terms of academics, they were said to be very similar to UW and NU and are in the NY market. Syracuse seems more likely, but it's all about money...

EDIT: I can't find the original article, but there are some blogs discussing it. Appears the Cornell was more interested than the Big Ten was.

The Wiki Big Ten site appears to have been updated. The new list is now:

* Notre Dame
* UConn
* Rutgers
* Syracuse
* Missouri
* Nebraska
* Pittsburgh
* West Virginia
* Iowa St
* Maryland
* Kentucky
* Louisville

You can throw out Missouri, Nebraska, West Virginia, Maryland and Kentucky. It makes 0 and I mean 0 sense for any of them to move. The ones that make the most sense are Notre Dame obviously because they are an independent and already play a cake schedule against the Military schools every year. The problem is that they make too much money not being apart of a major confrence with their NBC deal alone, that deal would need to be Grandfathered in and that wouldn't make any sense for the big ten network. In a perfect world it would be Notre Dame, but its not and will never happen unless the big ten makes huge concessions.

Lousiville, Pitt, Iowa St., Syracuse and UCONN make the 2nd most sense and I would assume the Big Ten doesn't want Iowa St. or UCONN because really who cares. Pitt is a storied football program and I doubt they would ever want to leave the Big East, the way they are set up right now is a best possible situation for them right now making it to the Big East championship.

That leaves Louisville and Syracuse. Louisville has already moved once and wouldn't be suprised if they are not interested in leaving C-USA, I mean who is their competition right now? Houston? That won't last especially with their coaches name all over openings. Syracuse is the most likely option in my mind but it would require the Big East to take one in to replace them which is just dumb to me.

The fact remains the Big Ten was just too late to the party with this 2 divisions thing and unless the Big Ten concedes to making next to nothing off of Notre Dame moving in it just won't happen, and trust me they want the 12th team to make more money, no other reason.

Notre Dame or bust in my eyes. IMHO

 

[GopherBeef]

That leaves Louisville and Syracuse. Louisville has already moved once and wouldn't be suprised if they are not interested in leaving C-USA, I mean who is their competition right now? Houston?

Louisville is in the Big East

http://espn.go.com/ncf/clubhouse?teamId=97

Why would it make zero sense for schools like Nebraska, Mizzou, West Virginia, and Maryland to join the Big 10? To me, the Big Ten is strong across the board in overall athletic programs and academic institutions. The Big XII has some strong athletic programs and academic institutions, but also has some that bring the conference down. For Maryland, the ACC does not get much attention nationally outside of basketball. Likewise for West Virginia in the Big East. I think a move for any of these schools would be a step up in terms of perception of their program and university, even if it would mean giving up some athletic success in the short term.

That being said, I think the only ones that make sense in terms of overall athletic program strength, TV market, academics, and geography would be Mizzou, Notre Dame, Pitt, Maryland, and potentially Syracuse. I question Syracuse in that I'm not sure how strong their athletic program is outside of men's basketball and occasionally football, and because they are a private school I question their alumni base and national following.

 

[hyaluronic]

According to the U.S. News and World Report, the lowest ranked schools in the Big Ten are Iowa, MSU, and Indiana, all tied for #71. Iowa State is #88 in the report.

 

[GoldenJayhawk]

My bad forgot, thought it was just basketball, not big on East Coast latest. Either way everything i said is true about them already moving from C-USA to the Big East, they won't move again, that's a promise.

Maryland would be a candidate to move from the ACC to the Big East if a Big East school defected to the Big 10. Nebraska is a staple of the Big 12 way back to Big 8 days, will never leave, I mean just your sheer stupidity on that point overwhelmes me. Mizzou has rivalries with Kansas(Indian War Drum(2nd longest rivalry in NCAA next to MN-Wisc)), Iowa St(Telephone Trophy), Oklahoma(Peace Pipe) and Nebraska(Victor Bell). Once again your stupidity on the matter overwhelmes me. West Virginia couldn't be further from the target of Big 10 relevance, why would they trade a schedule of barely traveling for one that travels more than its fair share for a lateral move and removing themselves from a proud history of Big East royalty. Once again your stupidity on the matter overwhelmes me.

I repeat 0 sense!

 

[Goofers71]

Notre Dame or Rutgers

Notre Dame has the name, location, historic relation with what became the Big Ten back in the 1890s. Rutgers football goes back to 1869(first college football game) and has Paul Robeson as one of its football greats. It is the state land grant university for NJ(Iowa, MN, Wisconsin, Illinois, MSA, Purdue, tOSU and PSU are the land grant universities for their states) and has comparable academics and mission. It gives the Big Ten acess to the NYC TV market.

 

[GopherBeef]

I'm definitely not trying to be a troll here, but you obviously haven't done any ivestigation into your assertion about academics. Iowa State would be in the top half of the Big Ten academically if they were to join. (I'm from the Twin Cities & chose ISU over several Big Ten Schools because of academics). ISU gives the B10 two of the three criteria (academics & geography), but won't help at all with market share.

Being a Big XII fan, I would hate to see ISU in the B10. But, if it did happen, I would love the new rivalries & the ability to watch them on TV more often. (Again, because I live in the Cities)

I have a lot of respect for Iowa State, and have a lot of good friends that are ISU alumni. That being said, ISU would rank dead last among Big Ten schools in overall ranking in the US News and World Report 2008 rankings. I realize there are other metrics, but this seems to be the most cited and respected ranking of top colleges.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings

1. Northwestern (national rank = 12)
2. Michigan (27)
t3. Illinois (39)
t3. Wisconsin (39)
5. Penn State (47)
6. Ohio State (53)
t7. Minnesota (61)
t7. Purdue (61)
t9. Michigan State (71)
t9. Iowa (71)
t9. Indiana (71)
Iowa State (88)

ISU's endowment is also about half of the lowest Big Ten university.

http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/NES2008PublicTable-AllInstitutionsByFY08MarketValue.pdf.

And ISU, with an enrollment of about 27,000, is smaller than all Big Ten schools other than Northwestern, and would be one of only two public Big Ten schools with less than 40,000 students (Iowa being the other).


ISU just does not seem to be a good fit in many ways.

 

[GopherBeef]

My bad forgot, thought it was just basketball, not big on East Coast latest. Either way everything i said is true about them already moving from C-USA to the Big East, they won't move again, that's a promise.

Maryland would be a candidate to move from the ACC to the Big East if a Big East school defected to the Big 10. Nebraska is a staple of the Big 12 way back to Big 8 days, will never leave, I mean just your sheer stupidity on that point overwhelmes me. Mizzou has rivalries with Kansas(Indian War Drum(2nd longest rivalry in NCAA next to MN-Wisc)), Iowa St(Telephone Trophy), Oklahoma(Peace Pipe) and Nebraska(Victor Bell). Once again your stupidity on the matter overwhelmes me. West Virginia couldn't be further from the target of Big 10 relevance, why would they trade a schedule of barely traveling for one that travels more than its fair share for a lateral move and removing themselves from a proud history of Big East royalty. Once again your stupidity on the matter overwhelmes me.

I repeat 0 sense!

I meant no disrespect with my question, but judging by your unecessary a$$hole response apparently I hit a nerve.

Yes, Nebraska is a staple of the Big XII and Mizzou has many Big XII rivalries, but they would both have a lot to gain from joining the Big Ten. Inclusion in the Big Ten would definitely raise the profiles of their university and athletic programs.

It is certainly not unprecedented for schools to give up rivalries to join or switch conferences. See Arkansas-Texas after Arkansas joined the SEC, Pitt-Penn State, Virginia Tech-West Virginia.

For West Virginia, I agree that they would never even be on the Big Ten's radar as far as potential expansion schools. However, you seriously don't think moving to the Big Ten would be a step up from West Virginia's perspective? This "proud history of Big East royalty" apparently has been built from being in the conference since 1991? The Big East to Big Ten would be a lateral move? Seriously?

 

[Al_4_State]

I have a lot of respect for Iowa State, and have a lot of good friends that are ISU alumni. That being said, ISU would rank dead last among Big Ten schools in overall ranking in the US News and World Report 2008 rankings. I realize there are other metrics, but this seems to be the most cited and respected ranking of top colleges.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings

1. Northwestern (national rank = 12)
2. Michigan (27)
t3. Illinois (39)
t3. Wisconsin (39)
5. Penn State (47)
6. Ohio State (53)
t7. Minnesota (61)
t7. Purdue (61)
t9. Michigan State (71)
t9. Iowa (71)
t9. Indiana (71)
Iowa State (88)

ISU's endowment is also about half of the lowest Big Ten university.

http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/NES2008PublicTable-AllInstitutionsByFY08MarketValue.pdf.

And ISU, with an enrollment of about 27,000, is smaller than all Big Ten schools other than Northwestern, and would be one of only two public Big Ten schools with less than 40,000 students (Iowa being the other).


ISU just does not seem to be a good fit in many ways.

I would assume this takes into account graduate and undergraduate both, correct? ISU has stronger undergraduate programs than Iowa, and Iowa has stronger graduate programs. ISU makes sense for the Big 10 in every category except the category that matters the most: TV sets being brought to the table.